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Green fees: how do we stop the golf consultants ruining golf?

  • 13-02-2018 1:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    First of all, I don't expect cheap golf on quality courses. And I do expect that the market should determine the price, and not what I'm willing to pay.

    But having scanned tee times for the coming weekend, a weekend which I must point out is in the middle of February, Seapoint are looking for €150pp for a Sunday morning tee time.

    I can only assume a golf consultant has paid them a visit, and advised them about the now Fionn mac Cumhaill style story whereby Golf Links A was struggling to attract American visitors, until they cleverly trebled their prices overnight, at which point they'd a queue of price-equates-to-prestige-minded Yanks at their door. I call it Golf Links A as I've heard the same story about Ardglass, Castlerock, Ballyliffin, Portmarnock Links and Portsalon. It might even be a true story for some of them; for I've noticed that little old Kirkistown went down a similar route last winter.

    As mentioned, I've no qualms with market rates.

    But I'm going to make an assumption that Irish people won't pay €150 for a round of golf in February.  And another one that the volume of American golf tourists in Ireland during February would comfortably fit in a single minibus.

    So, can we possibly start spreading out a rumour (one which hopefully our golf travel consultants pick up upon, and turn into one of their rules) that golf courses really need to price according to the seasons?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭s8n


    Invest in a good quality mower and a pin and stick a challenging hole in your back garden !!


  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭SEORG


    Do they have a GUI members rate?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    supply and demand, play somewhere else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    supply and demand, play somewhere else.
    As every tee time from 8.40 to 10.20 is currently available, I might actually have considered supply and demand before writing this post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    A very simple solution I harp on about is that we should have a GUI rate for every course in Ireland. It could encourage casual golfers to retain membership if they know they can play a links in high summer for sensible money. It also allows us differentiate our products between a tourism product and a local product. Support local, protect consumers and all that.

    Its a simple solution the GUI could enforce considering that all clubs are affiliated to the GUI. No GUI rate, no GUI membership. Simple.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    morrga wrote: »
    A very simple solution I harp on about is that we should have a GUI rate for every course in Ireland. It could encourage casual golfers to retain membership if they know they can play a links in high summer for sensible money. It also allows us differentiate our products between a tourism product and a local product. Support local, protect consumers and all that.

    Its a simple solution the GUI could enforce considering that all clubs are affiliated to the GUI. No GUI rate, no GUI membership. Simple.

    Why should some of our top golf clubs give cheap golf to gui members in high season.
    Everybody has the choice not to play a course they deem to expensive.
    If the top courses are making good money it's well done them


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    Why should some of our top golf clubs give cheap golf to gui members in high season.
    Everybody has the choice not to play a course they deem to expensive.
    If the top courses are making good money it's well done them

    To offer a bit more of a community for golfers and maybe attract and retain people in the game. Lots of people don't have a lot of money and can get a little bored playing their home course week in week out. It would be nice if they could play some of the bigger courses for a reasonable price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    morrga wrote: »
    A very simple solution I harp on about is that we should have a GUI rate for every course in Ireland. It could encourage casual golfers to retain membership if they know they can play a links in high summer for sensible money. It also allows us differentiate our products between a tourism product and a local product. Support local, protect consumers and all that.

    Its a simple solution the GUI could enforce considering that all clubs are affiliated to the GUI. No GUI rate, no GUI membership. Simple.

    Why should some of our top golf clubs give cheap golf to gui members in high season.
    Everybody has the choice not to play a course they deem to expensive.
    If the top courses are making good money  it's well done them
    I'd agree. If the market is willing to sustain full rates, then a course shouldn't offer discounts. I doubt though very much if all of the courses adopting a "price for America" strategy are achieving their aim.

    This Seapoint pricing strategy (€150 in February) definitely feels like they've skipped a few pages of research and can only see $$$$ signs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    backspin. wrote: »
    To offer a bit more of a community for golfers and maybe attract and retain people in the game. Lots of people don't have a lot of money and can get a little bored playing their home course week in week out. It would be nice if they could play some of the bigger courses for a reasonable

    I don't see why. Golf clubs are run as businesses now.
    Why would for example ballybunion who in high season are getting €180pp during the season all day everyday suddenly be FORCED to give gui mbers a reduction.
    Trust me I would love to be able to afford all those links courses but I totally agree with their pricing if they are getting the bookings.
    SEAPOINT IS A WHOLE NEW BALL GAME.!!!!
    NOT WORTH €50 IN SUMMER


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    Because we are all members of the same entity. We all fall under the same umbrella. Why shouldn't we have a loyalty scheme amongst the nation of GUI members. Yes we should separate ourselves from the tourist price point.

    Lets be patriotic about this and protect our fellow members. Anyone who is a member of these high end clubs do not pay a membership fee in line with the green fees. They pay between 600 and 800 in some links out west. So its laughable they view their product as premium value when they dont pay a premium price for their membership. If you pay 10,000 a year then yep fair enough, lock the gates.

    We should look after our members not punish them because some cash loaded foreigners want to pay over the odds. Not many people will agree a game of golf is justified as a three figure price point. And the people who do are probably the people who dont even pay above a 1,000 euro for their membership.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Ha ha ha, Seapoint not worth €150 at the height of Summer, €30 now maybe €50-€60 in Summer and that's only because it's got a few links holes. Lovely clubhouse and grub though


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    morrga wrote: »
    Because we are all members of the same entity. We all fall under the same umbrella. Why shouldn't we have a loyalty scheme amongst the nation of GUI members. Yes we should separate ourselves from the tourist price point.

    Lets be patriotic about this and protect our fellow members. Anyone who is a member of these high end clubs do not pay a membership fee in line with the green fees. They pay between 600 and 800 in some links out west. So its laughable they view their product as premium value when they dont pay a premium price for their membership. If you pay 10,000 a year then yep fair enough, lock the gates.

    We should look after our members not punish them because some cash loaded foreigners want to pay over the odds. Not many people will agree a game of golf is justified as a three figure price point. And the people who do are probably the people who dont even pay above a 1,000 euro for their membership.

    Sorry don't see it happening. If that was the case we would all join slievenamon type clubs for €150 and have the privilege of going to the tralees/lahinch/ballybunion and play.
    What about the lucky members of these clubs what benefit to them


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    I know it wont happen, but its silly that it wont when it makes so much sense.

    Members of such clubs of course would get benefit. A Tralee or Ballybunion member can go play Lahinch, K Club, Mount Juliet, European club etc.

    Remember the members of such high end links courses are many ordinary folk who if they happened to be over east would not fork out 180 to play the European club but if it was available to them at a GUI rate of 50 quid, you can be certain they'd play. So yes there is benefit.

    Its win win for everyone. Some, not all, just need to take off their glasses and stop looking down their nose. Golf thankfully is no longer a game for the privileged. So why not have a loyalty scheme for GUI members.

    I am not suggesting open the flood gates, but it couldn't hurt to have some slots made available to GUI members.


  • Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    morrga wrote: »
    Because we are all members of the same entity. We all fall under the same umbrella. Why shouldn't we have a loyalty scheme amongst the nation of GUI members. Yes we should separate ourselves from the tourist price point.

    Lets be patriotic about this and protect our fellow members. Anyone who is a member of these high end clubs do not pay a membership fee in line with the green fees. They pay between 600 and 800 in some links out west. So its laughable they view their product as premium value when they dont pay a premium price for their membership. If you pay 10,000 a year then yep fair enough, lock the gates.

    We should look after our members not punish them because some cash loaded foreigners want to pay over the odds. Not many people will agree a game of golf is justified as a three figure price point. And the people who do are probably the people who dont even pay above a 1,000 euro for their membership.

    I'm not sure that's going to work. In effect you're asking members at these clubs to subsidise your golf. It's not like there is an infinite amount of tee times on these courses. I know members in some of these west coast links and they would happily get rid of the Americans and sacrifice the cash for better access in the summer. If they opened up Lahinch, say, at 40 euros a round, they would be swamped.

    Nothing comes without cost. The reason why membership at these courses is cheap is because of the green fee income. The members pay for that with restricted tee-times.

    I brought a few Americans to Lahinch/Tralee and Ballybunion a few years back. They thought the green free of 180 euro or whatever it was, was ridiculously cheap. They wouldn't get out on comparable courses in the US for love nor money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    morrga wrote: »
    I know it wont happen, but its silly that it wont when it makes so much sense.

    Members of such clubs of course would get benefit. A Tralee or Ballybunion member can go play Lahinch, K Club, Mount Juliet, European club etc.

    Remember the members of such high end links courses are many ordinary folk who if they happened to be over east would not fork out 180 to play the European club but if it was available to them at a GUI rate of 50 quid, you can be certain they'd play. So yes there is benefit.

    Its win win for everyone. Some, not all, just need to take off their glasses and stop looking down their nose. Golf thankfully is no longer a game for the privileged. So why not have a loyalty scheme for GUI members.

    I am not suggesting open the flood gates, but it couldn't hurt to have some slots made available to GUI

    Lovely idea alrite but one last question what about the course that are already down to €10-€30 and struggling surely they couldnt afford to further discount


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    I was browsing for a new car yesterday and when i went to the Ferrari garage they were charging almost 10 times the price that i could buy a VW for.
    How absolutely dare they charge more money for a superior product!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,079 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    kiers47 wrote: »
    I was browsing for a new car yesterday and when i went to the Ferrari garage they were charging almost 10 times the price that i could buy a VW for.
    How absolutely dare they charge more money for a superior product!!

    Ah ya, but the OP went to a different VW garage and found out that they were charging twice as much as a Ferrari...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    PARlance wrote: »
    Ah ya, but the OP went to a different VW garage and found out that they were charging twice as much as a Ferrari...

    I cant comment on Sea Point. I have no idea how good or bad it is. Was more referring to the Ballybunion and Tralee and other top rank links in the discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    Ah kiers47 stop with the childish nonsense.

    I am referring to a membership based structure that we have in golf. Show me the membership clubs that Volkswagen and Ferrari run? Actually dont. Cause this thread doesnt deserve to get sidetracked with nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Leading on from my smart comment. Sorry i couldnt help myself.

    This may sound stupid. But do people actually call these courses for a green fee? In my experience they almost always will match whatever deal you are getting off tee-times or other booking site. Also in terms of playing these high end links the staff are usually helpful in advising what the best price and when you can get this price is.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    I just don't get the need for green fees at all :confused:

    :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭boomtown84


    There is a GUI rate for Open Competitions in most of the top courses in the country. Tralee and Ballybunion are only €50 to play. Played both their Junior Scratch Cups last year in the same weekend. Great value. You need to be quick to get on the time sheet though.

    Quick edit: Played Mt. Juliet last week for €40 and you can play the Ryder course in the K Club most weeks for €60. European has/had a €50 deal too. Just need to keep an eye on golfnet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    morrga wrote: »
    Ah kiers47 stop with the childish nonsense.

    I am referring to a membership based structure that we have in golf. Show me the membership clubs that Volkswagen and Ferrari run? Actually dont. Cause this thread doesnt deserve to get sidetracked with nonsense.

    Im not really sure what you are getting at membership based structure.

    But anyway. Take as an example Ballybunion GC. It is a members club. Why in the name of god if i was a member there would I want Joe Bloggs from Cork playing for €50 when i can get €180 off Jimmy Johnson from Texas.

    And also say Doonbeg. How does one enforce Mr Trump to reduce his rate for every Tom, Dick and Harry from the GUI to play there at a reduced rate. Sure it sounds great in fantasy land but these are functioning business's and their objective is to make money for the upkeep of the course for members or whoever the stakeholders have.

    The GUI do not have the power to enforce this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    Yep which in itself is an admission that they dont even expect GUI members to pay Tourist rates.
    Yes most staff at these courses would help to assist in finding a favourable green fee. I played Ballyliffin last summer and the first question he asked me is, do I have a GUI card so I ended up paying 50 quid.
    The culture is out there. I am suggesting it should be made more formal and if even on a limited basis for all GUI members it would at least help foster a greater golfing community amongst GUI members.


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    The GUI could withdraw its affiliation from the GUI is one solution.

    Texas or Cork. Let me be patriotic. Look after your own. And besides I am not suggesting making a choice. I suggest we accomodate both.

    A membership based structure is where a group of members from several different clubs are all members at the end of the day under one umbrella.
    Many clubs offer reciprocal days at other clubs so that might give you an idea of what I am on about. A loyalty scheme for members.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    I see what your going for but i think it is pretty unlikely you would get buy in from any of the high end courses.
    And the GUI is not going to push the wrong buttons with any of these clubs. But anyway that's my tuppence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    I agree. I cant see the GUI implementing it or pressing clubs for it which is a pity. We'll just have to stick to the informal nod and a wink route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    I personally think for golf in Ireland there is very good value to be had.
    Just can't agree on clubs been forced to open up tee times for gui members. The big clubs would be swamped with Irish lads getting cheap golf. Whatever about our American tourist pretty sure it would piss off our british/European tourists when they find out they are being ripped off because of their nationality

    morrga wrote: »
    The GUI could withdraw its affiliation from the GUI is one solution.

    Texas or Cork. Let me be patriotic. Look after your own. And besides I am not suggesting making a choice. I suggest we accomodate both.

    A membership based structure is where a group of members from several different clubs are all members at the end of the day under one umbrella.
    Many clubs offer reciprocal days at other clubs so that might give you an idea of what I am on about. A loyalty scheme for members.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    By the way in Kerry every club member gets 25% discount for all Kerry clubs.
    Still not going to give ballbunion/tralee or Waterville €150 for a game!!!!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    backspin. wrote: »
    To offer a bit more of a community for golfers and maybe attract and retain people in the game. Lots of people don't have a lot of money and can get a little bored playing their home course week in week out. It would be nice if they could play some of the bigger courses for a reasonable

    I don't see why. Golf clubs are run as businesses now.
    Why would for example ballybunion who in high season are getting €180pp during the season all day everyday suddenly be FORCED to give gui mbers a reduction.
    Trust me I would love to be able to afford all those links courses but I totally agree with their pricing if they are getting the bookings.
    SEAPOINT IS A WHOLE NEW BALL GAME.!!!!
    NOT WORTH €50 IN SUMMER

    Of course not if they are busy. But is it really full all day every day. They could offer decent rates in off season.


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