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Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ath262


    I see James, occupation farmer


    (same firstname as the priest)



  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ath262


    ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭louis346789


    Thank you both. This is what I thought but just wished to be sure it was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Jellybaby_1


    I see both James, but possibly David?



  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭louis346789


    My main concern was that is Joannis for John.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭stopthevoting



    I would agree that it is James, rather than David or Joannis. It looks the same as the priest's name, which unfortunately isn't very clear either. But, on another record from the same church in the same year, the first one on this page; https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10835/5952557.pdf, the same priest's name is there, and it is more clear that the priest is also James.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Latinised versions of names - Joannes for John, Jacob for James etc. - are generally only seen in Parish registers; civil registers tend to stick to the regular English versions.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I'm looking at the marriage of Ignatius Moore and Emily Pattison [first entry on the left hand page] and wondering if anyone can make out anything of the word that appears to be written immediately below and tangled up in the tails of the I and G of Ignatius.

    https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633743#page/81/mode/1up

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭Yeah Right


    James Mullen, I'd say. The faint marks obviously didn't scan properly but the three vertical lines for the m's are the same.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy




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  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭55Gem


    Made an attempt at cleaning it up a bit, it's difficult to know what to take out and what to leave, he's so flamboyant with his loops and strokes.

    I'm still none the wiser though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Fraoch333


    It's really hard to figure out. I can't see anything similar on other entries. The curls in the first letter look a little like the "D" in December. I'd guess Dis are the first three letters. I suppose it might be Latin, but I don't know what would be written in there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It looks like there could be a letter T in there. The two witnesses for the bride, could the first name Matre??? ... be stand-in for Maria Pattison and that word something like proxy?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Thanks all.

    Yes, I’m seeing ‘dis’ as well.

    Could it be dispensation for something - perhaps a second marriage?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,087 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    My initial thought was 'Disp' but usually they give some indication of what the dispensation was, ans there do not seem to be other instances of 'Disp' on other pages, which would be quite unusual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭55Gem


    I don’t think it’s a D

    To me it looks more like the first letter on number 236 on this page https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633743#page/79/mode/1up

    but I don’t know what the name is, something Dowling. Patrick maybe, don’t know how to spell in Latin.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Thanks again everyone for having a look at this - like yourselves I'm stumped.

    I suspect Ignatius may have been previously married and was hoping the word might support this but it shall remain a mystery for now.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Could I get an opinion on the third bride's name here please? First name Harriet. Surname indexed as O'Connor - but there's another word between those two, repeated on her father's section.

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10491/5820459.pdf

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭gipi


    Have a look at this record, Harriet seems to have been widowed and married again in 1904.

    Fathers surname looks like Maraney?

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10208/5715265.pdf

    Post edited by gipi on


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Fraoch333


    It looked like Maranly to me, but I had a look on Ancestry where the church record is linked - she's listed as Maroney. I'll try to find the entry on NLI and link it.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I got it - thanks for the reminder that the Pro-Cathedral goes well past the cut-off on the NLI.

    Looks like Maroney there too.

    Weirdly, Boards won't let me put in the NLI link

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Fraoch333


    Hope this links works! The entry is on page 161 of the Register https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633795#page/192/mode/1up

    Edited - I was so slow scrolling on my phone, I didn't see that you had already found it : )



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Thanks.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭unfortunately


    Could it be "Patre" thus making the phrase "patre et matre" or "father and mother" in Latin? the following word "sponso" looks to be Latin for "I betroth" so the parents are betrothing their daughter for marriage



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    That's a great spot @unfortunately.

    And the more I look at it the more I'm seeing it.

    But I haven't seen an entry like that befoe - I wonder why it's written thus?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭unfortunately



    Google translates "Patre et Matre sponso/a" as "Father and Mother of the bridegroom/bride" I'm not sure if it is sponso or sponsa because the last letter doesn't look like other examples of "o" and "a" at the end of words like in Josepho or Maria. It may be "sponsos" which means "spouses" according to Google.

    In context, it looks like its saying that Joseph Moore is the father of Ignatius and Maria Pattison is the mother of Emily. It may be just giving additional info as to who the witnesses were. Pure speculation; but if one or both of the couple were underage maybe they would have needed parents permission to marry?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I know that Emily was born in about 1806 to William Pattison and Mary O'Reilly, and that William was most likely dead at the time of her marriage.

    I also know that following Ignatius' death in 1837 Emily married Joseph Moore who may be a brother/cousin/ nephew of Ignatius.

    What I don't know is the identity of Ignatius' father so this could be a significant turn-up for the books!

    Funnily enough I had previously come up with a vague connection to a Spencer family so felt I had no reason to doubt the transcription from Irish Genealogy.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Comsewogue


    Hi all, trying to transcribe a poor quality newspaper scan.

    It's the death notice of one James Flavelle in the Irish Daily Independent from 25 October 1895 (via the Irish Newspaper Archive):

    In particular, I'm trying to figure out what he was a member of for many years. It looks like "the Andrean Contra-[?] of the Blessed Sacrament and Sacred Heart".

    Also does this group sound familiar to anyone? I'd be interested to know what it was.

    EDIT: Edited to include source and date.

    Post edited by Comsewogue on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    The word after Andrean might be Confraternity.

    MOD NOTE: Welcome to Boards @Comsewogue.

    Please bear in mind that where possible you must provide a source for the image you're trying to transcribe.

    A link to the Irish Newspaper Archive (for those with a subscription) and the publication date (25th Oct 1895) will greatly help other posters to help you.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Catsmeow


    Hi Comsewogue

    My transcription:

    Flavelle - October 23, 1895, at his residence, 2 Lime St, at an advanced age, James Flavelle, for many years a member of the Andrean Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament, and Sacred Heart. Queen of the Most Holy Rosary Pray for him. R.I.P. Funeral will leave above residence for Glasnevin, at 10 o'clock on Sunday [I think the final word is morning].



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