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Not registered with PTRB, should I bother?

  • 11-11-2010 5:26pm
    #1
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Hello, I moved into a place back in July, landlord was acting on behalf of the owners, who apparently live abroad, he is a friend.
    He had said we'd be registered and that, but I just rang the PTRB to enquire & they say we are not registered & it would cost €150 to register?
    We have had no problems as such, to be honest we've had no contact at all from the LL which is grand, we just put the money into an account every month an thats it - we haven't gotten any receipts.(got an email as a receipt for the deposit & first rent)
    Should I insist on him paying for us to be registered?


Comments

  • #2
    Mary Hairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Mary Hairy


    It is to your advantage that the landlord is not registered. Now that you have contacted the PRTb they will probably write to the landlord and force him to register. It was a silly thing to do. You should leave well enough alone.


  • #3
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Why is it their advantage?

    If it wasnt an issue i would leave it. If it is an issue request it. Its not your responsibility at the end of the day so no skin of your nose really!


  • #4
    J-blk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭J-blk


    It's not your responsibility to pay for PRTB registration, it's the landlord's and he/she is obligated to. If he/she can't be bothered to, it doesn't really affect you in any way - if a dispute arises at any point between you (e.g regarding returning the deposit), you will still be able to start a dispute with the PRTB but he/she can't. He may also be fined for not registering you in the first place. In any case, if you have already brought up the subject and he/she does not seem to care, it really isn't your problem...
    It is a legal requirement that landlords must register tenancies with the PRTB. Please see the penalties applicable under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. You should also note that until such time as a tenancy has been entered onto the PRTB's register of tenancies, the PRTB is precluded from dealing with any dispute relating to the tenancy that may be referred to it by the landlord. Please also see the section on >tax relief. You should refer to the Registrations Enforcement FAQs for further information.

    https://www.prtb.ie/faq.aspx#Q1


  • #5
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Well it was my first time renting to be honest so how was I to know, we were told we would be registered? I have a few issues that I am going to email him about now(still no key for the letter box, couch is in bits, it sore as **** to be sitting on(which we pointed out at the start) an I was going to say about the about the registration.
    The people in the PTRB, when I asked them they said it is 150 to register, and I asked who should pay this and she had said its between ourselves. being registered doesn't bother me, but I guess it would help if there were issues when getting the deposit back?
    she didn't say she would do anything she told me I should contact the LL & get him to do the reg


  • #6
    Mary Hairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Mary Hairy


    godtabh wrote: »
    Why is it their advantage?

    See the post regarding disputes.


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  • #7
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Mary Hairy wrote: »
    See the post regarding disputes.
    Can you link me please?


  • #8
    J-blk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭J-blk


    Lenny wrote: »
    I asked them they said it is 150 to register, and I asked who should pay this and she had said its between ourselves.

    Strange that someone in the PRTB would tell you that. It's for the landlord to pay, not you.
    Lenny wrote: »
    being registered doesn't bother me, but I guess it would help if there were issues when getting the deposit back?

    Not really. Like I said above, landlords not registering does not prevent the tenant(s) from raising a dispute with the PRTB. Essentially only the landlord is hurt by not registering.

    Like Mary said above, there's a good chance they will chase up the landlord anyway now that they are aware of the non-registration.


  • #9
    am i bovvered
    Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭am i bovvered


    J-blk wrote: »
    It's not your responsibility to pay for PRTB registration, it's the landlord's and he/she is obligated to. If he/she can't be bothered to, it doesn't really affect you in any way - if a dispute arises at any point between you (e.g regarding returning the deposit), you will still be able to start a dispute with the PRTB but he/she can't. He may also be fined for not registering you in the first place. In any case, if you have already brought up the subject and he/she does not seem to care, it really isn't your problem...



    https://www.prtb.ie/faq.aspx#Q1

    100% correct

    Not being registered has no bearing on you, it may even be an advantage if you have a dispute, it is your landlord responsibility to register.


  • #10
    996tt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭996tt


    if you have a morgage and you are not registered with the prtb then you cant offset your interest against your rental income in your annual tax comp


  • #11
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Mary Hairy wrote: »
    See the post regarding disputes.

    Surely it would be in your favor to be registered then?

    Or do you mean if their is a dispute and you file a claim the fact that he isnt reignited will be in your favor?


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  • #12
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    OP, are you claiming your Rent Tax Credit? See here - http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

    Also can I point out that if you are lodging rent to the bank account of a non-resident landlord you are legally obliged to deduct 20% with-holding tax and return this to the Revenue at tax year end.

    See here (including linked R185 document) - http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html#section10

    HTH


  • #13
    Mary Hairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Mary Hairy


    996tt wrote: »
    if you have a morgage and you are not registered with the prtb then you cant offset your interest against your rental income in your annual tax comp

    The o/p is the tenant. Registration has nothing to do with his tax!


  • #14
    Mary Hairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Mary Hairy


    Lenny wrote: »
    Can you link me please?

    It is post 4 in this thread.


  • #15
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    mathepac wrote: »
    OP, are you claiming your Rent Tax Credit? See here - http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

    Also can I point out that if you are lodging rent to the bank account of a non-resident landlord you are legally obliged to deduct 20% with-holding tax and return this to the Revenue at tax year end.

    See here (including linked R185 document) - http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html#section10

    HTH

    I was kind of aware of this before we moved in..
    We have been given a bank account number(its actualy the bank accross the road from us) its an irish account. The LL friend just said to us he is a friend of the tennants & they don't live in ireland. But what is to proof that I am/was aware of this? I got the keys off the "Land lord" & he gave me an irish account number.
    I was pushing for a contract from the start, as I think we got the place at a good price.. but a few weeks later we got an email with a scanned contract(obviously a really old one, as a lot of the things in it were gone or did not apply & there was names just tip-exed out before it was scanned you could kind of see previously names).
    there was no dates or even rent ammount filled out on it. we were told we could signed it & post it back to him if we wanted but it would be pointless as nothing was filled out.
    Now I would like to find out about the tax suitation, but I woulnd't want to enquire & hang myself out to dry, tell the LL I am with holding 20% of the rent to the revenue & then they deciede to up the rent by 20% or give us notice, I can only assume they're paying it as I think they have at least 1 more property elsewere rented out


  • #16
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    If your tenancy is (illegally) not registered with the PRTB by the landlord or the friend / agent, I'm afraid it takes an enormous leap of faith for me to conclude they are being tax compliant. Whatever about the with-holding tax, you are still entitled to your rent tax credit. Ask the agent about it, or just download the form from the Revenue web-site and lob it in to them.


  • #17
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Ok thanks for tat mat, but applying for thfor the tax credit would that not bring attention to us not with holding the tax and then the landlord just highering the rent as there is not signed a signed contract


  • #18
    996tt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭996tt


    Mary Hairy wrote: »
    The o/p is the tenant. Registration has nothing to do with his tax!

    I misread the OP, thought that the house belonged to his friend so thats where my advice was aimed


  • #19
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    If your landlord lives outside the country then regardless of whether you think he is legit or not you should be looking into the tax situation further. Its your responsibility to pay it, so if it were me I would be doing everything in your power to cover your ass! The last thing Id want is revenue chasing me for 20% of my years rent...


  • #20
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Lenny wrote: »
    Ok thanks for tat mat, but applying for thfor the tax credit would that not bring attention to us not with holding the tax and then the landlord just highering the rent as there is not signed a signed contract

    make sure you get receipts for rent that say something like "600 euro received 01/01/11, rent paid in full for month of January"

    This establishes, without a contract, what your monthly rent is.

    Also, the non-resident landlord thing doesn't enter into the equation. You are paying rent to an agent resident in Ireland, he is supposed to pay the tax. You are not responsible for it in this case.


  • #21
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Xiney wrote: »
    Also, the non-resident landlord thing doesn't enter into the equation. You are paying rent to an agent resident in Ireland, he is supposed to pay the tax. You are not responsible for it in this case.

    100% correct. The 'friend' is the agent... in this case you are not responsible for the 20% tax.


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  • #22
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Xiney wrote: »
    ...
    Also, the non-resident landlord thing doesn't enter into the equation. You are paying rent to an agent resident in Ireland, he is supposed to pay the tax. You are not responsible for it in this case.
    OP states rent is lodged to a bank account. Unless it can be established that this is the agent's account, the 20% with-holding tax needs to be deducted.

    "... We have been given a bank account number(its actualy the bank accross the road from us) its an irish account. The LL friend just said to us he is a friend of the tennants & they don't live in ireland.... "

    On askaboutmoney.com there are posts from tenants being pursued by Revenue for the with-holding tax so from OP's perspective "the non-resident landlord thing" may prove to be very relevant.


  • #23
    roboshatner
    Registered Users Posts: 775 ✭✭✭roboshatner


    I was living in dublin 7 for 2 years and 3 months. I gave landlord 5 weeks notice and I signed two contracts and never got a copy and refused to give me a copy of contracts

    And when I asked for my 1275 deposit back he refused to give it. a year later not and Im going to report him to the prtb and get them to get my deposit back.

    thats what happened to me.
    Lenny wrote: »
    Hello, I moved into a place back in July, landlord was acting on behalf of the owners, who apparently live abroad, he is a friend.
    He had said we'd be registered and that, but I just rang the PTRB to enquire & they say we are not registered & it would cost €150 to register?
    We have had no problems as such, to be honest we've had no contact at all from the LL which is grand, we just put the money into an account every month an thats it - we haven't gotten any receipts.(got an email as a receipt for the deposit & first rent)
    Should I insist on him paying for us to be registered?


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