Destruction of heritage

slowburner · 26-01-2012 8:20pm

Cedrus wrote: »

There needs to be a greater understanding of what is worth preserving and what is not and this can really only be done by extensive excavation and categorisation of sites. There is no doubt that some of the ring forts are of interest but some were simple farmsteads and some only cattle pens, there is nothing to excavate! In a thousand years will our descendants be agonising over the significance of barna sheds?
Until there is a way of classifying them they all should be left alone or excavated and recorded.

But who is to say what mysteries or answers might lie unknown in the most humble of farmsteads?
There's the rub - you can't say it's worth preserving until you have destroyed it by excavating it.
Archaeology's mantra is : 'excavation is destruction'.
Excavations tend to be carried out only when there is an imminent threat to a site.

You've got to remember too, that someone has to pay for the excavation.
The vast majority of excavations in recent years were as a consequence of, and funded by, property development.
And we know where that got us.
Currently, unemployment amongst archaeologists is around 85%.

So any ideal of a classification of the various lumps, bumps and suspicious hummocks which dot our landscape, is but a pipe dream.
The next best thing (some would say the best thing) is to leave them undisturbed.

ejmaztec · 02-03-2012 5:40pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

I don't believe for a minute that this guy didn't realise the significance of what was on his land.

Are there any other notable cases of this kind of carry-on across the country?

http://www.kerryman.ie/news/farmer-avoids-jail-for-damage-to-ringfort-2992062.html

Nailed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/omahonyj.html

A 64-year-old farmer has been fined €25,000 at the Circuit Criminal Court in Tralee for destroying a 1,000-year-old ring fort which was a protected national monument.
In one of the first prosecutions of its kind to come before the courts, John O'Mahony pleaded guilty to carrying out work on the fort on his farm at Causeway in Co Kerry in February 2008, without notifying the National Monuments Service in advance.
Mr O'Mahony farms around 40 acres at Clashmealcon near Causeway in north Kerry.
A ring fort and series of souterrains or underground tunnels - which are thought to have been constructed over 1,000 years ago - were on the lands, and these are protected national monuments of historical significance.
In February 2008, Mr O'Mahony hired workers to demolish the majority of the ring fort.
The court was told that the material was used to fill in a pond which Mr O'Mahony believed was dangerous. Most of the ring fort was destroyed by heavy machinery.
The court was told Mr O'Mahony had not sought permission from the National Monuments Service of the Department of Arts, Heritage & the Gaeltacht and restoration of the fort was not possible.
Mr O'Mahony knew of the existence of the ring fort, because he had previously objected to a planning application there on the grounds that the land contained "an historical ring fort".
He had only bought the lands two months before work on the ring fort was carried out.
His barrister, John O'Sullivan, said Mr O'Mahony apologised. He said his client did not know he had to seek permission for the work and did not understand the implications.
Judge Carroll Moran said ownership of property is a right, but this right was not "unfettered" and was qualified by the fact that property was held in trust for the culture of the country.
At a previous hearing he warned that "a marker" would have to be put down when it came to imposing sentence.
The maximum penalty which Mr O'Mahony faced was five years in prison and/or a fine of €50,000.

slowburner · 02-03-2012 7:36pm

Good news indeed.
The man knew full well what he was doing, and was pointedly giving our national heritage two fingers.
Hopefully, others will treat national monuments with greater respect from now on.

Maudi · 02-03-2012 7:54pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

ejmaztec wrote: »

I don't believe for a minute that this guy didn't realise the significance of what was on his land.

Are there any other notable cases of this kind of carry-on across the country?

http://www.kerryman.ie/news/farmer-avoids-jail-for-damage-to-ringfort-2992062.html

Nailed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/omahonyj.html

A 64-year-old farmer has been fined €25,000 at the Circuit Criminal Court in Tralee for destroying a 1,000-year-old ring fort which was a protected national monument.
In one of the first prosecutions of its kind to come before the courts, John O'Mahony pleaded guilty to carrying out work on the fort on his farm at Causeway in Co Kerry in February 2008, without notifying the National Monuments Service in advance.
Mr O'Mahony farms around 40 acres at Clashmealcon near Causeway in north Kerry.
A ring fort and series of souterrains or underground tunnels - which are thought to have been constructed over 1,000 years ago - were on the lands, and these are protected national monuments of historical significance.
In February 2008, Mr O'Mahony hired workers to demolish the majority of the ring fort.
The court was told that the material was used to fill in a pond which Mr O'Mahony believed was dangerous. Most of the ring fort was destroyed by heavy machinery.
The court was told Mr O'Mahony had not sought permission from the National Monuments Service of the Department of Arts, Heritage & the Gaeltacht and restoration of the fort was not possible.
Mr O'Mahony knew of the existence of the ring fort, because he had previously objected to a planning application there on the grounds that the land contained "an historical ring fort".
He had only bought the lands two months before work on the ring fort was carried out.
His barrister, John O'Sullivan, said Mr O'Mahony apologised. He said his client did not know he had to seek permission for the work and did not understand the implications.
Judge Carroll Moran said ownership of property is a right, but this right was not "unfettered" and was qualified by the fact that property was held in trust for the culture of the country.
At a previous hearing he warned that "a marker" would have to be put down when it came to imposing sentence.
The maximum penalty which Mr O'Mahony faced was five years in prison and/or a fine of €50,000.

should have been the full 50g fine!

Allyall · 03-03-2012 1:28pm

for destroying a 1,000-year-old ring fort which was a protected national monument.

to fill in a pond.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Mr O'Mahony knew of the existence of the ring fort, because he had previously objected to a planning application there, on the grounds that the land contained "an historical ring fort".

He had only bought the lands two months before.

The maximum penalty which Mr O'Mahony faced was five years in prison and/or a fine of €50,000.

He should have got a 1 year sentence with that.. :mad::mad:

Bricriu · 03-03-2012 3:32pm

The state set the tone for this sort of desecration when it ran a motorway through the Tara site. If I found an item in a bog that should be in our National Museum, I wouldn't even think of giving it to the state. I'd give it too a museum abroad, one that respects such things.

The OPW is pathetic at providing weatherproof textual info at our national monuments. In most cases, they don't even have a sign bearing the name of a fort, for instance.

Another problem for the lack of respect for our national treasures is that we have a huge myth in this country that we are obsessed with our history. We're not! In fact, most Irish people know very little about our history. Talk to people about politics, and you find out very soon they haven't a clue about our history.

Fuinseog · 03-03-2012 8:59pm

Bricriu wrote: »

The state set the tone for this sort of desecration when it ran a motorway through the Tara site. If I found an item in a bog that should be in our National Museum, I wouldn't even think of giving it to the state. I'd give it too a museum abroad, one that respects such things.

The OPW is pathetic at providing weatherproof textual info at our national monuments. In most cases, they don't even have a sign bearing the name of a fort, for instance.

Another problem for the lack of respect for our national treasures is that we have a huge myth in this country that we are obsessed with our history. We're not! In fact, most Irish people know very little about our history. Talk to people about politics, and you find out very soon they haven't a clue about our history.

brilliant idea. Give it to the British museum, which already has several artefacts 'borrowed' from this country as well as half the world. better still sell it abroad.

I have travelled all over the country and have never fond a problem with their signage. to man all of this sites costs a hack of a lot of money and some of them are not that well frequented by visitors.

slowburner · 03-03-2012 11:17pm

Bricriu wrote: »

The state set the tone for this sort of desecration when it ran a motorway through the Tara site. If I found an item in a bog that should be in our National Museum, I wouldn't even think of giving it to the state. I'd give it too a museum abroad, one that respects such things.

The OPW is pathetic at providing weatherproof textual info at our national monuments. In most cases, they don't even have a sign bearing the name of a fort, for instance.

Another problem for the lack of respect for our national treasures is that we have a huge myth in this country that we are obsessed with our history. We're not! In fact, most Irish people know very little about our history. Talk to people about politics, and you find out very soon they haven't a clue about our history.

I agree with some of what you say about the lack of information on signage.
On the other hand, I like the fact that most of our monuments are 'just there', like they always were.
I shiver to think of our national monuments surrounded by interpretative centres and the like.
The conclusion is invariably the tourist shop.
There is also the risk that unmanned monuments would be vulnerable to treasure hunters - that is part of the thinking behind the absence of signage at most sites.
Quite simply, the funding is just not there to man every monument, or even a few of them.

The National Museum did not run a motorway through Tara.
There is no reason to think that the museum cannot, or would not treat any finds with the utmost respect and with complete professionalism.

To equate road construction and planning with the dedication of those charged with care of our heritage is disingenuous, to say the least.

Maudi · 10-03-2012 10:51pm

Maudi wrote: »

ejmaztec wrote: »

ejmaztec wrote: »

I don't believe for a minute that this guy didn't realise the significance of what was on his land.

Are there any other notable cases of this kind of carry-on across the country?

http://www.kerryman.ie/news/farmer-avoids-jail-for-damage-to-ringfort-2992062.html

Nailed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/omahonyj.html

A 64-year-old farmer has been fined €25,000 at the Circuit Criminal Court in Tralee for destroying a 1,000-year-old ring fort which was a protected national monument.
In one of the first prosecutions of its kind to come before the courts, John O'Mahony pleaded guilty to carrying out work on the fort on his farm at Causeway in Co Kerry in February 2008, without notifying the National Monuments Service in advance.
Mr O'Mahony farms around 40 acres at Clashmealcon near Causeway in north Kerry.
A ring fort and series of souterrains or underground tunnels - which are thought to have been constructed over 1,000 years ago - were on the lands, and these are protected national monuments of historical significance.
In February 2008, Mr O'Mahony hired workers to demolish the majority of the ring fort.
The court was told that the material was used to fill in a pond which Mr O'Mahony believed was dangerous. Most of the ring fort was destroyed by heavy machinery.
The court was told Mr O'Mahony had not sought permission from the National Monuments Service of the Department of Arts, Heritage & the Gaeltacht and restoration of the fort was not possible.
Mr O'Mahony knew of the existence of the ring fort, because he had previously objected to a planning application there on the grounds that the land contained "an historical ring fort".
He had only bought the lands two months before work on the ring fort was carried out.
His barrister, John O'Sullivan, said Mr O'Mahony apologised. He said his client did not know he had to seek permission for the work and did not understand the implications.
Judge Carroll Moran said ownership of property is a right, but this right was not "unfettered" and was qualified by the fact that property was held in trust for the culture of the country.
At a previous hearing he warned that "a marker" would have to be put down when it came to imposing sentence.
The maximum penalty which Mr O'Mahony faced was five years in prison and/or a fine of €50,000.

should have been the full 50g fine!

i took a visit up to fasssroe castle today it was built in 1536 and although its mostly in ruins now its still impressive and part of our heritage..the only thing is its been used as a dumping ground by god knows who..its surrounded on all sides by v expensive looking houses..nice to see bray council looking after our heritage tho...im sure any tourists will be really impressed

raher1 · 06-05-2017 9:30pm

does any one know where the stone for the house went?, i hear a church in north galway an area called Annaghdown

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Coole House :mad:

More immediate concerns my arse. :mad:

Destruction of heritage

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