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Ground Rent to the Queen

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Comments

  • #32
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Owners of leasehold property can purchase their Ground Rent and 'convert' their title to freehold. My earlier post in layman’s terms is sufficiently accurate for anyone with an understanding of property law to accept. Those with a wish to niggle on some arcane points of landlord and tenant law, subfeudation and quia emptores, should go off to the medieval board if they want an argument. Your citation of the’ coveyancing act 2009’ (sic) [correctly the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 ] is a red herring as its purpose was to prevent the creation of any new fee farm grants. (Section 12 states ‘The creation of a fee farm grant at law or in equity is prohibited.’) However that Act did not abolish any existing ones which is the topic at hand. If you want to quote law at me the 1967 Act or better still the 1978 Act [more correctly the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents (no.2) Act 1978] would be far more relevant and pertinent.

    The fact of the matter is - in the real world - most land with ground rent payable is owned without the restrictiction of the duration of a lease and is therefore not leasehold. Most of d4 d6 d3 d1 d2 and d8 land has ground rent payable yet most of it is not leasehold.


  • #33
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    The fact of the matter is - in the real world - Dublin is not the centre of the universe.


  • #34
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is - in the real world - Dublin is not the centre of the universe.

    It's pretty representative of land never subject to the land acts and therefore of land on which ground rent is payable. In the same way that it is representative of unregistered land for much the same reason.

    Either way it is wrong to equate ground rent with leasehold.


  • #35
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is - in the real world - Dublin is not the centre of the universe.

    It is the county with the most individual tenancies with ground rent payable so it kind of is actually- in relation to this discussion.


  • #36
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    I've no idea where you are coming from on this, other than a wish to have an off topic argument. We are discussing ground rent and its payment to a landlord. I never said groundrent was the same as leasehold, I said
    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Owners of leasehold property can purchase their Ground Rent and 'convert' their title to freehold.
    That statement is accurate, although perhaps I should have said ‘occupiers’ or ‘holders’ of a leasehold, but that is moot if they have a lease of almost 999 years. :rolleyes:


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  • #37
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    paranoid pete wrote: »
    I was talking to a guy at work the other day. He considers himself a bit of a history buff. According to him, in some parts of Ireland we're still paying ground rent to the Queen. This isn't the first time I've heard this been mentioned but I don't know what he was referring to.

    Anyone know where this rumour stems from?

    Interesting topic. The English crown directly owned Trim Castle, for example, in the Late Medieval period. This direct possession of land in Ireland made it very unusual. About 30 years ago it was owned by the Plunketts of Dunsany, who in 1993 sold it to the Government of Ireland. I don't know how or when, or even if, the British crown's self-proclaimed "right" to it was extinguished.


  • #38
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,020 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Interesting topic. The English crown directly owned Trim Castle, for example, in the Late Medieval period. This direct possession of land in Ireland made it very unusual. About 30 years ago it was owned by the Plunketts of Dunsany, who in 1993 sold it to the Government of Ireland. I don't know how or when, or even if, the British crown's self-proclaimed "right" to it was extinguished.
    Most likely they would have granted it to somebody to secure their loyalty - quote possibly the Plunketts. Alternatively they could have sold it to raise money.

    In the Tudor period crown land, and dealings in it, was very important. Lands were granted to people to secure loyalty and support, or sold to them to raise revenue. Conversely, people surrendered land to the crown to curry favour or secure forgiveness for some transgression, or they had it forfeited for treason.

    There would still have been quite a bit of crown land in Ireland in it 1922, but it would have passed to the Free State as successor to the crown. Most of it would have been land that was used for some public purpose.


  • #39
    AnthonyCny
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnthonyCny


    Reading this and it's very interesting.

    The reason the British want to claim up to the high tide mark in Lough Foyle is the shipping channel. If it was halved down the middle the majority of the shipping channel would be on the Irish side.

    It's effectively handing over access to Derry port.


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