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13-11-2007, 12:32   #1
brianon
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Running a marathon with no specific trainng

Ok. So I have wanted to run a marathon for a few years now. Trained one year for 5 months only to get injured two weeks beforehand

As much as I still want to run a marathon I a) could not go through that training again. b) do not want to do that type of training as I don't think it is what my body needs. I want to be fast over 10 metres, not 10 miles. c) I don't have the time to commit to a marathon specific training schedule.

The training I do now is ...
MEBB (Max Effort Black Box). Crossfit Mon, Wed, Fri. Olympic Weights (Tue, Thurs, Sat). Rest Sun. A bit of indoor soccer and some extra indoor rowing also + bits n' pieces. I am reasonably fit but no commando.

Do people think its possible to run a marathon (the 2008 Connemara marathon) on 6th April 2008 without doing the training for it ?
My plan would be to alter my training ... slightly ... to allow for some more running/distance running and thats it. I reckon I could run for 2 hours if I had to tomorrow but as for 26.2 miles ... no way.

I basically want to get super fit to the point I could run a marathon without running mega mileage and destroying my knees in the process. Maybe one long run each of 10/12.5/15/17.5/20/22.5 between now and March.

What do people think ?

Cheers,
Brian.
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13-11-2007, 12:46   #2
 
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I reckon it could maybe be done, through the correct manipulation of certain training styles.....however nothing prepares you for an action like doing that action.

Also, and i will lay money on this, if you run a marathon with no previous long distance running under your belt your going to hurt, really bad.

And i mean really, really bad. Also, your injury potential mid event will be through the roof.
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13-11-2007, 12:50   #3
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I would suggest moving/repost this thread to the marathon / triathlon forum under sports
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13-11-2007, 12:52   #4
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why do one if you don't want to/can't do the training? It won't be enjoyable in the least and if you can't get through the training without getting injured you are pretty much certain to get injured on the day of the marathon. The reason there is so much mileage is to support the long runs so you don't get injured during them.

also the conemara is a relatively hard one anyway.
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13-11-2007, 12:52   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianon View Post

I basically want to get super fit to the point I could run a marathon without running mega mileage and destroying my knees in the process.
you are more likely to damage your knees by running one without training correctly.
If you are prepared to do the 6 long runs you mention, why not just do twice this with a a couple of short faster runs each week in between the long runs.

12 weeks of stepping up your long runs should suffice.

Do you just want to get around the disatnce or do you have a time in mind?

Make sure you have a good pair of runners.
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13-11-2007, 12:54   #6
 
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I would suggest moving/repost this thread to the marathon / triathlon forum under sports
agreed - hunnymonster it's all yours
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13-11-2007, 14:13   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copacetic View Post
why do one if you don't want to/can't do the training? It won't be enjoyable in the least and if you can't get through the training without getting injured you are pretty much certain to get injured on the day of the marathon. The reason there is so much mileage is to support the long runs so you don't get injured during them.

also the conemara is a relatively hard one anyway.
I have some long distance running experience. I trained a few years back for 5 months and racked up quite a few miles. I got injured close the the marathon with ITBS from I guess too much ... running/training.

My training back then was like 5 runs a week with Sunday being a long distance. Starting from 5 miles to 20 miles.

I don't want to just complete a marathon in any old time. I'd much rather do it in a decent time.

I couldn't face running that mileage again though
I am not saying I want some easy no-running training but I just wonder if allot of the training mileage can be replaced by...other things?

With crossfit I do ALLOT of squats and deadlifts so I should at this stage have strong knee joints and would be confident of not getting injured during a marathon. I would not be so confident if I had to run 30+ miles a week for 12 weeks.
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13-11-2007, 14:36   #8
 
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Cardio fitness and leg strength from weights alone won't get you through a marathon. You will be violating something called teh "specificality of training" which basically states that to do an event you have to mimic that event in training - hence if you want to run then cycling (for example) as training will be of limited benifit as you work different muscles in different ways. Additionally a weights regime may actual hinder your running as it may impare your flexibility, according to Noaks something between 40 and 60% of the power in your stride comes from the elasticity of your muscles and tendons. This elestacity is usually reduced by weights and muscle hypertrophy.

That said there is no reason why a fit individual willing to rack up the long runs you mentioned shouldn't be able to "do" a marathon, but it all depends on how much pain you are willing to put up with. My first I did a couple of 18s and a 20, logged around 30 miles a week for 12 weeks+ and I hips and knees were shot to bits by mile 18 - the accumulated impact on tarmac iis not comfortable and with fewer miles you will hurt a lot sooner. Ease up a little on teh weights, mix in some mid length runs as well as your long ones, maybe look at a bigger mix of cardio cross training than you are now and, aiming for a run / walk, you will reach the end and without killing yourself. Oh and you've picked one of teh toughest marathons in the country as well!
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13-11-2007, 15:02   #9
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Thanks for the replies guys. Much appreciated.

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Additionally a weights regime may actual hinder your running as it may impare your flexibility
My weights regime might not be what you think it is. I don't do like 5 sets of Dumbbell curls, leg curls and bench press. The crossfit stuff is mainly bodyweight exercises.

I think I'll try to come up with some sort of plan and then see how ... feasible
... it is. If I went with a 16 week plan and aimed for two runs a week. Starting at 10 (4 + 6) miles total the first week and gradually increasing to a final week (before a taper) of about 10 miles mid-week + 22 miles on a Sunday.

I am prepared to hurt during the marathon for sure but not prepared to cause some serious damage so will have to think about this some more.
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13-11-2007, 16:17   #10
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agreed - hunnymonster it's all yours
Thanks babe.


To answer the question, as the others have said

yes it is do-able but yes it will hurt and do damage and you will not do yourself justice.

Take Amadeus for example (I hope he doesn't mind), He was a fit guy with limited mileage done when he ran his first marathon. He did OK. Since then he has gotten more time on his feet and his marathon times have been coming down steadily. He is now threatening to qualify for the Boston marathon which is often considered the measure of a good club standard male runner (women's qualifying times are slower)

I would also advise against Connemara as your race of choice if you are going into it unprepared. The reason being that the first half of that race is flat but the second half is uphill. The gradient isn't nearly as bad as people make out but if you're not a runner, you're going to be tired at that stage and probably enduring a certain amount of cramping. Hills are hard to shuffle up. I would suggest looking at the other early season marathons (e.g. Belfast or Newry in Ireland or something like Seville or Luton abroad)

I should qualify this by saying, I went from complete couch potato to marathon in 12 weeks and my longest run before the marathon was 10 miles on a treadmill. In the race I hurt like hell and after I finished I had to pee like a man because I could not move between the sitting and standing positions easily but it can be done.
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13-11-2007, 16:57   #11
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Quote:
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Thanks babe.


To answer the question, as the others have said

yes it is do-able but yes it will hurt and do damage and you will not do yourself justice.

Take Amadeus for example (I hope he doesn't mind), He was a fit guy with limited mileage done when he ran his first marathon. He did OK. Since then he has gotten more time on his feet and his marathon times have been coming down steadily. He is now threatening to qualify for the Boston marathon which is often considered the measure of a good club standard male runner (women's qualifying times are slower)

I would also advise against Connemara as your race of choice if you are going into it unprepared. The reason being that the first half of that race is flat but the second half is uphill. The gradient isn't nearly as bad as people make out but if you're not a runner, you're going to be tired at that stage and probably enduring a certain amount of cramping. Hills are hard to shuffle up. I would suggest looking at the other early season marathons (e.g. Belfast or Newry in Ireland or something like Seville or Luton abroad)

I should qualify this by saying, I went from complete couch potato to marathon in 12 weeks and my longest run before the marathon was 10 miles on a treadmill. In the race I hurt like hell and after I finished I had to pee like a man because I could not move between the sitting and standing positions easily but it can be done.
Thanks for the advise. I do want to do myself justice in the race as I can't see the point of just 'completing' by fair means or foul. I want it to be an achievement.

I suppose if I just go with my mix of crossfit & some distance running I will find out if it is working as time progresses.

tbh I am gonna have to have at least 2x20mile rns done before I can run the marathon. If after 3 months I can't complete the 15-20 milers then I know to leave it for now.
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21-11-2007, 22:15   #12
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I recently finished the Dublin City Marathon! It was my first Marathon and I was extremely nervous because I didn't do enough training. I would have been fairly fit before I started any training. So, what I did was... Two months before the run I.... N0.1 Gave up Drink (NB) No.2 Ran 4-6 miles every second day No.3 Did long runs most Sundays. My longest run before the event was 14 miles. Everybody said this wasn't enough, but the occasion and the crowd carried me the rest of the way. Also its really important to eat well, you should be sick of pasta. Another thing that drove me was... I did the run for a local charity. I had t-shirts printed up with my name and charity on them and as I ran around the course people were cheering me on. www.flyingcolours.ie were the people who sorted me out with the t-shirts. Other than that all I can say is don't go running a marathon if you haven’t done at least one substantial run. Saying that, Brut force and determination will get you around. The feeling of crossing the line is indescribable!!!! Enjoy it….
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21-11-2007, 23:11   #13
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I recently finished the Dublin City Marathon! It was my first Marathon and I was extremely nervous because I didn't do enough training. I would have been fairly fit before I started any training. So, what I did was... Two months before the run I.... N0.1 Gave up Drink (NB) No.2 Ran 4-6 miles every second day No.3 Did long runs most Sundays. My longest run before the event was 14 miles. Everybody said this wasn't enough, but the occasion and the crowd carried me the rest of the way. Also its really important to eat well, you should be sick of pasta. Another thing that drove me was... I did the run for a local charity. I had t-shirts printed up with my name and charity on them and as I ran around the course people were cheering me on. www.flyingcolours.ie were the people who sorted me out with the t-shirts. Other than that all I can say is don't go running a marathon if you haven’t done at least one substantial run. Saying that, Brut force and determination will get you around. The feeling of crossing the line is indescribable!!!! Enjoy it….
Cool. Congrats on ur first marathon.

I've decided on what my training is and have actually started

Basically I will keep my existing crossfit training and do 5 extra runs. Thats it.
5 runs of a decent distance mind. First one was last Saturday. 13.5 miles. So one down and 4 to go. Fingers crossed
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25-11-2007, 14:26   #14
 
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If you want to run a marathon you have to train properly and do the miledge or else you will be killed on the race day with pain. Serioulsy dude cop on to yourself before you put yourself in hospital. Thats like me saying I want to go skydiving but not bother taking any lessons/instructions beforehand -
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25-11-2007, 18:38   #15
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If you want to run a marathon you have to train properly and do the miledge or else you will be killed on the race day with pain. Serioulsy dude cop on to yourself before you put yourself in hospital. Thats like me saying I want to go skydiving but not bother taking any lessons/instructions beforehand -
The comparison you are making is way off the mark. I understand what you are saying but the example you use is a little ott. Skydiving I would imagine is far more skill based and I would reckon I could do slightly more damage skydiving than running a marathon. Unless I get a heart attack that is

Look...tbh, I train every day. Crossfit 5 times a week. 3 days a week I row as well as CF.

tbh I am quite confident I can complete in a reasonable time (for myself) this marathon. Actually I think I can run it in a better time than if I trained like I did the last time...5 days of running a week (a mainstream marathon plan).

If after my next run (18miler next month) I find it is not working then I can always review and add in some extra mileage.

I reckon CF is enough though, especially with this added five runs to get my body used to the pounding it will receive on the day.

Quote:
Serioulsy dude cop on to yourself before you put yourself in hospital.
I am not stupid. I don't intend to turn up on the day and wing it. By the time April comes around I will have put down five (one down already) serious runs. If they go well then I see no reason whatsoever to be fearful of one extra effort.
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