Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Swimming advice needed!

Options
  • 13-10-2020 8:56pm
    #1
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Looking for some advice regards swimming training. I've been swimming for about a year but haven't managed to increase the distance I can swim by much and was hoping for some guidance here around training or tips that may have worked for others.

    I could only swim one length when I started a year ago and have built that up, mainly by joining a triathlon club. I went to their swimming classes twice a week. I managed ok but got tired quickly. I don't think my form is too bad but I just can't maintain it, like I can swim 100m in 2mins but I couldn't maintain that for multiple reps of 100 or increasing the distance. The most I could swim was 400m without having to stop as I felt like I couldn't breathe.

    I obviously couldn't swim during lockdown but have gotten back into the pool after restrictions were lifted initially. When I got back into the pool I made a conscious effort to try and slow down, I felt I was trying to perfect my stroke and that I was swimming too fast, and almost immediately I could swim further. After a couple of swims to get back into it I swam 500m and the following week 600m.

    I haven't been able to swim that far since but I have learned something from it. I have managed to slow down but feel like my form isn't good and at times swimming that far, as I get tired, I feel like I'm nearly stopping in the water. Overall I had an average pave of about 2:45/100m over that distance.

    I think some of it is mental, and some of it is technique, not breathing correctly maybe not exhaling all the air from my lungs before trying to breath again, that's my best guess. I usually breath every 3 strokes but change to 2-3 strokes as I get tired but I feel my stroke gets sloppier at this stage too.

    Should I concentrate on trying to just swim slow and increase the distance or should I focus on shorter reps, 25-50m? Has anyone gone through something similar and had a "breakthrough" moment?

    I have improved but would like to be able to swim further and be more comfortable. I'm hoping to be able to do a triathlon next year (was planning to do a sprint distance this year, but that didn't happen because of Covid!) and would like to be able to aim for an Olympic distance triathlon at some stage, though will aim to get a sprint distance under my belt first.

    Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble and a bit of an incoherent post, but tried to get my whole journey so far in there!! Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated!


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    EC1000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    What were the classes like - was there any instruction? Have you had anyone look at your stroke and give you advice? Sometimes a good instructor can give you things to work on straight away by seeing issues with your arms/legs/rotation/kick, etc. - there may be lots of low hanging fruit to fix there if you have been self taught so far.


  • Options
    #3
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    EC1000 wrote: »
    What were the classes like - was there any instruction? Have you had anyone look at your stroke and give you advice? Sometimes a good instructor can give you things to work on straight away by seeing issues with your arms/legs/rotation/kick, etc. - there may be lots of low hanging fruit to fix there if you have been self taught so far.

    I really enjoyed the classes, and they were very good and instructor led. Went to classes on two different mornings with two different instructors.

    I definitely improved during these sessions, however, I still felt I couldn't swim much of a distance. The most I managed was 400m, around this time, not in a class but on a practice day myself.

    I found in the classes, I would put in a big effort but found I was getting gassed so would need to stop. Now, I have found since that some of this was mental so I'm still learning how to keep going while getting tired.

    There haven't been classes since March, they've started back in the last week or two but I didn't sign up this time, as it didn't suit.

    I think I'll have to do my own sessions over the winter. I guess the reason for my initial post was a frustration that I don't seem to be increasing distance I can swim.

    The classes were focused on technique so shorter lengths and drills. By continuing this method should I expect my distance to increase as well or do I need a different approach to increase my swimming fitness?

    I have no structure to my current sessions, I just jump in and do reps of 100m. Then after about 500m, depending on how I'm feeling I'll just swim for as far as I can, usually 200-400m. Is this helping or over time would this encourage bad habits, as I slow down to swim that distance but my technique seems to be affected by it.

    I guess I'm just unsure of how to progress without classes. Should I be doing drills and focusing on technique and then with swim fitness the distance will just come?


  • Options
    #4
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Here's a screenshot of my most recent pool session. The two 75 lengths we're actually 50, there were kids in the pool and had to stop during those lengths so watch recorded them incorrectly.

    A swimming time of 31mins but pool time of 59mins.


  • Options
    #5
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Here's the session previous to the one above.

    Swim time 24mins, pool time 46mins


  • Options
    #6
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Here's the last instructor led session I completed back in March.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    deconduo
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    I followed this programme and found it great for building up the distance:
    http://ruthkazez.com/swimming/ZeroTo1mile.html


  • Options
    #8
    searay
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭searay


    MooShop wrote: »
    Here's the last instructor led session I completed back in March.


    If you aren't a strong swimmer with good technique, you'll lose swimming fitness and technique very quickly. - I'd be in ths category.

    I'd suggest you get a one to one lesson to identify your main weaknesses and 2/3 drills to address them so you can focus on that in your own training.

    If your instructor hasn't highlighted problems, be pro-active and ask him what you are doing wrong.

    After that you'd need to consider the frequency of your swims. In my expereince 2 swims per week just about maintains my fitness but I need to get in a third session to see any progression. If I take a week off, I can really feel it.

    2 coached sessions would be good and then one on your own focussing on technique while trying to maintain pace. Say try to do 10 by 100 off 2:30 and focus on technique.


  • Options
    #9
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    deconduo wrote: »
    I followed this programme and found it great for building up the distance:
    http://ruthkazez.com/swimming/ZeroTo1mile.html

    Were you able to follow it in that timeframe? Doesn't seem like much rest! I guess if you can't complete a week with outlines distance/rest then you just repeat that week?


  • Options
    #10
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    searay wrote: »
    If you aren't a strong swimmer with good technique, you'll lose swimming fitness and technique very quickly. - I'd be in ths category.

    I'd suggest you get a one to one lesson to identify your main weaknesses and 2/3 drills to address them so you can focus on that in your own training.

    If your instructor hasn't highlighted problems, be pro-active and ask him what you are doing wrong.

    After that you'd need to consider the frequency of your swims. In my expereince 2 swims per week just about maintains my fitness but I need to get in a third session to see any progression. If I take a week off, I can really feel it.

    2 coached sessions would be good and then one on your own focussing on technique while trying to maintain pace. Say try to do 10 by 100 off 2:30 and focus on technique.

    In fairness, the instructor was giving me good pointers at the time, but it was a class of about 20-25 people, and he gave me some good time to explain technique and what to focus on, when I was struggling to complete the outlined drills/distances.

    That was more in the first few weeks, by the end I was really improving and could feel it myself but could never go far!

    Won't be able to do the coached sessions for the next while, just got a busy schedule at home. I'm only getting to the pool 1-2 times a week at the moment but hope to increase that in the coming weeks. I know I need to be getting at least 3 good sessions per week to improve.


  • Options
    #11
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    MooShop wrote: »

    Looking for some advice regards swimming training. I've been swimming for about a year ... I don't think my form is too bad but I just can't maintain it... most I could swim was 400m without having to stop as I felt like I couldn't breathe.

    ...When I got back into the pool I made a conscious effort to try and slow down, I felt I was trying to perfect my stroke and that I was swimming too fast, and almost immediately I could swim further.

    Try running fast with your mouth closed- form soon goes to pieces. Slow down and walk with your mouth closed- you can walk a lot further.

    Turns out swimming is just the same; if you are gasping for air you may as well stop. You're doing exactly the right thing now by slowing down- keep the breathing under control and stroke/form/time improvements will follow. Distance isn't your limiter- I bet you could swim 3.9k tomorrow if you slowed down enough- breathing is, so keep working on that.

    A couple of tips (hard learned, believe me...!)
    1. If your face is underwater you should be exhaling;
    2. If you are exhaling do so in a controlled manner (think making a motorbike Brrrrrrrmmmmmm noise, exhale through your nose or mouth, doesn't matter which;
    3. When you inhale you only need one eye out of the water, the bow wave will take care of the rest;
    4. When you inhale you only need enough breath to last the next cycle- no need to fill the lungs with a huge gasp.

    Thats all the tips I can think of, in no particular order. You're doing the most important already (slow down if out of breath). Breathing is key to everything, the most fundamental- best of luck.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

    1. If your face is underwater you should be exhaling;
    2. If you are exhaling do so in a controlled manner (think making a motorbike Brrrrrrrmmmmmm noise, exhale through your nose or mouth, doesn't matter which;
    3. When you inhale you only need one eye out of the water, the bow wave will take care of the rest;
    4. When you inhale you only need enough breath to last the next cycle- no need to fill the lungs with a huge gasp.

    This, in a nutshell, resonates with me quite a lot. I think initially when starting out I had an issue with all of the above points.

    As I've slowly become more comfortable in the water, I don't think 1&2 are an issue now, it's something I'm very aware of while I'm swimming and I make a conscious effort to "check in" with my breathing when getting tired especially, to make sure I am still exhaling.

    I think 3&4 are an issue for me now.

    3) At the start of a session, I feel I do this well, it's when I start to get tired I feel like I'm lifting my head instead of just turning to one side. And I think also on my weaker side lifting my head is a bit more prevalent.

    4) I think this is a big issue for me, especially as I start to tire I think I try to take big gulps of air. This is something I really need to start working on.

    Thanks for your great response!


  • Options
    #13
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Kurt_Godel. wrote: »
    3. When you inhale you only need one eye out of the water, the bow wave will take care of the rest;
    4. When you inhale you only need enough breath to last the next cycle- no need to fill the lungs with a huge gasp.

    So, yesterday I went for a swim and I had a bit of a breakthrough with help from the advice given from the responses I've had here.

    I started the session with a pull buoy and did a few 50's, just trying to really focus on the points above. Just turning my head to the side and not lifting it out of the water and trying to just take enough breath.

    Then continued 50's without the pull buoy and did the same. Increased to 100's just trying to swim at a consistent pace and focusing on breathing. I did 10x50 and 5x100.

    I was feeling good, wasn't feeling tired or out of breath and then planned to do 250 to see if I could keep the breathing technique over a longer distance.

    I felt good during the effort and as I approached the 250, I pushed through it and kept going. I managed to do 750 in total, and I had more in the tank, I really think I could have hit the 1000 mark but I had to finish up my session and get home.

    The thing that I really noticed was that after that 750, I wasn't out of breath, feeling too fatigued or panting hard trying to recover. Felt really good!! This is the furthest I've ever managed to swim continuously, as mentioned in my OP, the furthest I swam before was 600m and I remember I was a lot more out of breath after that effort.

    The advice here, about doing reps 100's, 50's etc. And the great breathing tips really helped me to focus and plan a session. I was just really jumping in the pool, doing some 100s and then trying to swim longer but no real focus.

    I hope I can replicate this in my upcoming sessions, provided lockdown doesn't close down the pools again!! I think using the pull buoy at the start to reinforce good breathing technique helped so will try this again. Did 4 50's at the start of the last session with a pull buoy so will probably incorporate something similar.

    For the next little while I'll only manage to get into the pool once, possibly twice a week so not great for improving but will increase when I can and maybe try the 1500m swim plan a poster recommended.


  • Options
    #14
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Forgot to add a screenshot of the session in my last post


  • Options
    #15
    Fluffybums
    Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭Fluffybums


    Go back to basics, body position, floating, sculling. Find a good swimming teacher to help you either 1:1 or a small group - not easy at present with the Covid restrictions. What you can practice on your own is the good old push and glide - play around with you head position and see how it affects how far you can glide, that will give you an idea as to where your head should be during the stroke. Try floating, on you front - what angle to you naturally float at. Try and work on relaxing in the water - relaxing is the key. None of this sounds like swimming but these fundamentals can help with the stroke. From a push and glide you can and a stroke as you lose momentum, try not to lose the streamline. Just a few ideas. Get to love the water.


  • Options
    #16
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Fluffybums wrote: »
    Go back to basics, body position, floating, sculling. Find a good swimming teacher to help you either 1:1 or a small group - not easy at present with the Covid restrictions. What you can practice on your own is the good old push and glide - play around with you head position and see how it affects how far you can glide, that will give you an idea as to where your head should be during the stroke. Try floating, on you front - what angle to you naturally float at. Try and work on relaxing in the water - relaxing is the key. None of this sounds like swimming but these fundamentals can help with the stroke. From a push and glide you can and a stroke as you lose momentum, try not to lose the streamline. Just a few ideas. Get to love the water.

    Actually being able to relax has been a big part of my recent progress too, I find I'm able to swim now without getting panicked or if I take an extra breath of I feel I need to.

    Definitely need to work on my technique, but also happier with my progress in the past week. Will try out your suggestion in my next pool session, though with impending Covid restrictions, I don't know when that will be!


  • Options
    #17
    MooShop
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MooShop


    Another improvement today! Did the same session as the last time i.e. 10x50m (4x50m w/pull buoy), 5x100m and then a long swim.

    The long swim I managed today was 1000m, and I think I could have managed another couple of hundred metres, though I was feeling tired, but that's tiredness from not swimming that far ever before!! When I stopped I wasn't panting or bending over trying to catch my breath. I've actually really enjoyed the past couple of sessions and really increasing the distance.

    Though about 150m in, I didn't think I'd make 250m and usually when I felt like that if stop when I got to the wall but I kept going and pushed through that uncertainty, found a rhythm and felt more comfortable from 500-1000m. I guess that goes to show how much of a mental side there is to it, or at least for relative beginners anyway!

    The big epiphany moment for me, came from what Kurt posted about inhaling/exhaling. I practiced this using the pull buoy at the start of my last session and it has really worked for me.

    The change I made was to do with the way I was inhaling. I'd lift my head out of the water and take an audible inhalation, trying to grab as much air as I could. I think I was actually taking on too much air, not exhaling it all and then getting that tightness across my chest, panic set in and couldn't get much distance. Well, that's what I think was happening!!

    So, now when I'm breathing, I'm exhaling all the air, turning my head and just opening my mouth and it seems that I get enough air to last until I need more. This change has enabled me to go from doing 600m max and being out of breath afterwards, huffing and puffing to being able to do 1000m with, I think, more in the tank and not trying to catch my breath afterwards.

    Now, I still find myself lifting my head at times so I have work to do there and on my technique but I think this is a big milestone for me.


  • Options
    #18
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Just to add my 2c to Kurt's advice........

    I often see many novices / relatively new swimmers doing the same two things:

    1. Kicking far too fast, too wide, and from the knees. You don't need to kick fast to maintain a good body position, keep your legs in line with your body and kick from the hips. Try swimming with a pull buoy and see if there's much of a difference. Do some kick sets with fins to improve your technique. There are loads of videos online with advice. A good kick is well worth investing time in.

    2. Swimming like an uncooked piece of spaghetti :D By that I mean they are wriggling all over the place and legs, hips, body and arms are all over the place as they snake down the pool. When swimming concentrate on engaging your core, bring your belly button up into you body (this helps with his position) and imagine you are swimming in a tight tube and you have to keep your body straight. Ideally your head and feet should be in line with each other, and your head should be still when not moving to breath. Your body should be long and firm (!) and rotating around your head. Do side kick drill which will help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gG0DcdowC4 /

    Don't be afraid to swim 50m or even 25m repeats to practice good technique. Good technique makes longer swims must easier.


Advertisement