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Bills forged/overpriced by flatmate

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    They are obtaining money by deception, and may have been doing so for some time, and to more than one person. If you ask me this is definitely a job for the gardai.

    There are a lot of things that should be jobs for the gaurda including car crime, vandalism, rndom attacks on women getting off buses in the evening, exterior damage to houses and cars, casual threats and intimidation - they shrug them off - someone asking for more money than is due on a house bill in a private arrangement involving a letting agent, property manager who says it is nothing to do with them and a flatmate with noone holding responsibility & under a private contract will be so low on their priorities it will never be done IMO. They will say it is a civil matter - same as if a builder completes half you work and dosn’t come back promptly after an installment payment to do the other half.

    Gaurds in Irelnd need a good kick
    up the pants and reminder of why they are
    paid - and its not just to babysit the Kinehans and be private bodygaurds to them and their girlfriends every time a drug deal goes wrong.
    They are overwhelmed, overworked and totally jaded and tied up in knots by lawyers and they know it.

    OP would be better getting a solicitor involved but thats just throwing more money away with no consequences for the fm. Sadly.

    Re the bill - Electricity - in lockdown where everyone is home and indoors for almost 5 months - 6 or 7 hours daily of using a PC, phone chargers, boiling the kettle, emersion, electric shower, TV and/or gaming, 24/7 wifi and skybox , washing machine, dishwasher, tumble drier, lights and lamps etc.

    Is there a possibility a meter read was done by the flatmate after the OP gave notice and this was incorporated ( dubiously) into the existing bill which only comes every two months? FM would not be including levvies/ environmental taxes etc in this and the OP has not yet left and so is still running and using up lX. Maybe the
    fm has included an average use for the duration until s/he leaves and added this to the bill? Maybe the bill is genuinely legit as per my previous suggestions?

    I’d be asking why the property manager AND the letting agent say it is nothing to do
    with them? Sounds ofd. Unless the fm is the owner and they know this! ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    micah537 wrote: »
    If you have an immersion and need to use the dryer, then I wouldn't call them high. Our summer bills are around 240 for GF and myself. OP and housemate would be doing their washing separate so the bills should be higher.

    Our bills are 140 for 2 adults and 3 kids, we've an electric shower so use electricity for shower. We use the dryer to dry the clothes fro 5 people, so would get daily use. also we'd be in the sea daily so it'd normally get a second use to dry towels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    ted1 wrote: »
    Our bills are 140 for 2 adults and 3 kids, we've an electric shower so use electricity for shower, I'd call them high.

    Y - but the OP is a adult and can’t be told to turn the light off in his/ her bedroom and won’t be in bed by ten o’clock!

    Also they are working from home ( I think) and their household heat is also run off the electricity. Those heat things are expensive and add up quickly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,375 ✭✭✭fletch


    Also they are working from home ( I think) and their household heat is also run off the electricity. Those heat things are expensive and add up quickly.
    There is no way they had the heating on over the period of those bills. My heating on for the first time the other day in months. I've been working home all "lockdown" and my electricity bills are ~€50-€90 tops.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    So what happened next OP?


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  • Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    fletch wrote: »
    There is no way they had the heating on over the period of those bills. My heating on for the first time the other day in months. I've been working home all "lockdown" and my electricity bills are ~€50-€90 tops.

    If I want hot water then I have to have heat on even if it’s 25 outside. Not all houses are made the same or kept to the same standards, especially when renting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    If I want hot water then I have to have heat on even if it’s 25 outside. Not all houses are made the same or kept to the same standards, especially when renting.

    same here. but it doesn't cost that much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Y - but the OP is a adult and can’t be told to turn the light off in his/ her bedroom and won’t be in bed by ten o’clock!

    Also they are working from home ( I think) and their household heat is also run off the electricity. Those heat things are expensive and add up quickly.

    A few LED lamps on after 10 wont cost that much. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 253 ✭✭Beltby


    If I want hot water then I have to have heat on even if it’s 25 outside. Not all houses are made the same or kept to the same standards, especially when renting.

    Turn the rads off if you don't want to heat the whole house.


  • Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Beltby wrote: »
    Turn the rads off if you don't want to heat the whole house.

    Valves don’t work on all but one of them.

    Anyway, doesn’t help the OP much. Whether the bill is 500 or 50 a month if they’re being cheated they’re being cheated. I’d love to see the Gardai involved but just so long as they get the cash back is the main thing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭The_Fitz


    Best of luck here OP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    micah537 wrote: »
    .... need to use the dryer, ....


    Steel pole + pulley + rope + pegs + wind = Lower €'s


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    Steel pole + pulley + rope + pegs + wind = Lower €'s

    Because everyone has a garden and it never rains in Ireland :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Steel pole + pulley + rope + pegs + wind = Lower €'s

    Your recent posts on this thread are of zero use/value. Please stop


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 edlevy


    gardai can't get involved only if i decide to press charges.
    electric ireland suggested to submit a new meter request.
    i will find a place to go before aproach the housemate.
    i'm meeting a solicitor tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    edlevy wrote: »
    gardai can't get involved only if i decide to press charges.
    electric ireland suggested to submit a new meter request.
    i will find a place to go before aproach the housemate.
    i'm meeting a solicitor tomorrow.

    Garda, solicitor your choice really.

    I think it is a private matter initially and I would have a good chat before.

    Saying that gambling/drugs/alcohol addiction or just a thief person. If you can't challenge him ask for help, but not sure you want to go legal route with it.

    Try the chat first. If that doesn't work then legal if you really want. Some people need punishment, but don't expect quick result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    I'm with EI and this what my most recent e-bill (Aug) looks like:

    527782.jpg

    The numbers are all aligned properly, unlike your image, and they are added in the order you suggest in your image (bill-credit+13.5%VAT), so he can't claim that EI has changed how the bills work.

    He is your flatmate? I would go to him in person and ask him to bring up the EI account on his computer in front of view.
    You can wait for the full pdf if you like, but if he is going to the hassle of editing screenshots, he will probably edit the pdfs too.


    I may be wrong but my VAT is exactly 13.5% of the "Charges for this period" as I would expect - your attached bill's VAT are not
    Something rotten in the state of Denmark.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    GrumpyMe wrote: »
    I may be wrong but my VAT is exactly 13.5% of the "Charges for this period" as I would expect - your attached bill's VAT are not
    Something rotten in the state of Denmark.

    That was genuine electricity bill ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭lucalux


    GrumpyMe wrote: »
    I may be wrong but my VAT is exactly 13.5% of the "Charges for this period" as I would expect - your attached bill's VAT are not
    Something rotten in the state of Denmark.

    Maybe you've left out the credit of €6.20 before calculating VAT? My maths is terrible but that looks ok to me?! Could be wrong as usual though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    wonski wrote: »
    That was genuine electricity bill wink.png
    lucalux wrote: »
    Maybe you've left out the credit of €6.20 before calculating VAT? My maths is terrible but that looks ok to me?! Could be wrong as usual though!


    Ehem... but I did start with "I may be wrong..." yes take the €6.33 cr off and it's spot on 13.5%...:o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    There are legitimate reasons to blank areas of a bill and there are errors made in calculating in businesses.

    Ok, go to the electrical company and show them a copy of what is being presented to you as one of their bills. Bud the housemate will then have a problem if the electricity company gives a sh't. If they don't because they have the bill paid then claim the fcuker with a small claims application in the courts , bud will have to do something then.


    There aren't legitimate reasons for altering a bill. Data protection does not even come into it. The only PII is his name. They are housemates so they believe it or not, share the address. What exactly would need to be redacted?

    Bill errors don't include not counting up right or looking like it's badly shopped in MS Paint.

    It's not the electricity suppliers problem at all. They are paid by the suspect. What happens after that is not their issue.

    The small claims court does not apply between individuals. Only individuals to businesses.

    Bud. Literally every bit of your advice is wrong. Bud.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Electronic Writer, do not post in this thread again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭eire1


    Any update to this OP? Hope you got some answers about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭beachhead


    I pay by direct debit (5% discount) and have online billing (0.5% discount).
    5.5% of €115.11 (my electricity usage charge, not including standing charges/PSO levy) is €6.33.

    There is another 3% discount available if you have gas (which I don't).

    Cheers,thanks for the info


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    Hi OP. Did you ever get any further with this?

    0118 999 881 999 119 725 3



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 edlevy


    Hey!
    So, after a long period, this story is about to end. A highlight of what happened.

    When I found out the electricity bills tampered, I tried to get the originals with EE, but as I'm not the account holder, they couldn't provide. Then, I found Broadband too, the same issue with the company.

    Threshold.ie referred me to Gardaí and to fill a complaint with RTB.

    I went to Garda, they said it was a civil issue, not criminal.

    RTB recommended taking further actions only after an attempt to solve between me and him were unsuccessful. But they registered the case.

    I contacted a lawyer, he suggested me to get as much documentation as possible (rent agreement signed, receipt of all payments, and a letter from housemate attesting we were sharing with equal rights, etc). One week later, both companies shared the original bills with the correct amounts, but redacting description of services (which was ok, as I was interested just in the real amount).

    In between, I put all data on a spreadsheet, searched all the regulation, marked all the offences and found a new place to live, where I have to move in next week.

    Today, I printed all the evidence, regulations and laws, and a Termination Agreement with 1-week notice (nullifying the 30 days agreed on the original contract), set an amount for the deposit + the overcharge + a specif fee for "stress caused during the lease".

    Firstly, I informed him that I found some discrepancies that made me believe I was being overcharged. He had a poker face, then I showed him the picture pointing where the bills were forged. Naively, he asked me to explain because he "wasn't following my thoughts"... Then I just showed all the pages with the original bills on one half and the fake ones on the other. From pretending unawareness, he just admitted, said he was ashamed, and there was nothing to argue about but "plea guilty". His first suggestions were to refund the amount and to share the original bills from now on. I acknowledged but served him with the 7-day Notice Termination based on:

    "breach of obligations as Tenant/Landlord under (1) the Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2016, (2) the Criminal Justice Act 2001, and (3) the Data Protection Act 2018:

    1 - Allow the tenant of the dwelling to enjoy peaceful and exclusive occupation of the dwelling (entering my room without my consent on xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx);
    2 – Not providing a rent book with necessary information regarding bills and payments;
    3 – Extra expenses paid over the course of 2019 and 2020;
    4 – Sections 6, 11, 25 and 26 of the Criminal Justice Act 2001;
    5 – Breaching my GDPR rights by not disclosing recording device in the hall (camera), not providing privacy notice, not searching for my consent to use my personal data (recorded image)".

    He didn't feel comfortable signing with the above described, so I offered a simpler version wit his agreement to pay deposit + other expenses, just to be on the safe side by having a document signed by both parts. Next week I'm moving, got the money back and great learning.

    Some people have suggested going to Court, hiring a lawyer, Gardaí, etc. but I've learnt to choose my battles, and nowadays, this outcome suits me greatly. As I have all the evidence, maybe in the future I think about further steps, but for now, I'd rather enjoy the peace in my heart.

    Big thanks to all the ideas and suggestions (the helpful ones).

    I hope this thread can help other people in a similar situation.

    Cheers!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    edlevy wrote: »
    Hey!
    So, after a long period, this story is about to end. A highlight of what happened.

    When I found out the electricity bills tampered, I tried to get the originals with EE, but as I'm not the account holder, they couldn't provide. Then, I found Broadband too, the same issue with the company.

    Threshold.ie referred me to Gardaí and to fill a complaint with RTB.

    I went to Garda, they said it was a civil issue, not criminal.

    RTB recommended taking further actions only after an attempt to solve between me and him were unsuccessful. But they registered the case.

    I contacted a lawyer, he suggested me to get as much documentation as possible (rent agreement signed, receipt of all payments, and a letter from housemate attesting we were sharing with equal rights, etc). One week later, both companies shared the original bills with the correct amounts, but redacting description of services (which was ok, as I was interested just in the real amount).

    In between, I put all data on a spreadsheet, searched all the regulation, marked all the offences and found a new place to live, where I have to move in next week.

    Today, I printed all the evidence, regulations and laws, and a Termination Agreement with 1-week notice (nullifying the 30 days agreed on the original contract), set an amount for the deposit + the overcharge + a specif fee for "stress caused during the lease".

    Firstly, I informed him that I found some discrepancies that made me believe I was being overcharged. He had a poker face, then I showed him the picture pointing where the bills were forged. Naively, he asked me to explain because he "wasn't following my thoughts"... Then I just showed all the pages with the original bills on one half and the fake ones on the other. From pretending unawareness, he just admitted, said he was ashamed, and there was nothing to argue about but "plea guilty". His first suggestions were to refund the amount and to share the original bills from now on. I acknowledged but served him with the 7-day Notice Termination based on:

    "breach of obligations as Tenant/Landlord under (1) the Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2016, (2) the Criminal Justice Act 2001, and (3) the Data Protection Act 2018:

    1 - Allow the tenant of the dwelling to enjoy peaceful and exclusive occupation of the dwelling (entering my room without my consent on xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx);
    2 – Not providing a rent book with necessary information regarding bills and payments;
    3 – Extra expenses paid over the course of 2019 and 2020;
    4 – Sections 6, 11, 25 and 26 of the Criminal Justice Act 2001;
    5 – Breaching my GDPR rights by not disclosing recording device in the hall (camera), not providing privacy notice, not searching for my consent to use my personal data (recorded image)".

    He didn't feel comfortable signing with the above described, so I offered a simpler version wit his agreement to pay deposit + other expenses, just to be on the safe side by having a document signed by both parts. Next week I'm moving, got the money back and great learning.

    Some people have suggested going to Court, hiring a lawyer, Gardaí, etc. but I've learnt to choose my battles, and nowadays, this outcome suits me greatly. As I have all the evidence, maybe in the future I think about further steps, but for now, I'd rather enjoy the peace in my heart.

    Big thanks to all the ideas and suggestions (the helpful ones).

    I hope this thread can help other people in a similar situation.

    Cheers!

    Amazing! Fair play for not taking it like a b


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    Great result. Do you mind telling us how much he actually overcharged you by?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,941 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    When you're leaving, remind him that if he ever pulls a fast one on another house mate, you have all the evidence and you'll proceed the legal route.
    Tell him he sailed close to the wind and that he better keep his head down from now on.

    To thine own self be true



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Thanks for coming back and letting us know what happened.


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