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Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Thank you for that link, I was unaware of it - can I ask where did the list by year come from?
    Same link, same page , half way down click on “text records”.

    BUT look and spell Sroshops backwards......


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Thank you for that link, I was unaware of it - can I ask where did the list by year come from?
    I am not an expert on Gaelic, despite the fact that I spent years where the only subject I studied in English was English itself (e.g. had to translate Latin and French to Irish, and v.v!). So I tend to rely on reference works for name meanings, in this case the book "Treasures of the Landscape (County Wexford's Rural Landscape)", where the etymology of Ballyhit is twice given as "townland of the gust of wind".
    The gust of wind explanation is plausible, as it is one of the definitions of siota in Dineen's dictionary.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    The gust of wind explanation is plausible, as it is one of the definitions of siota in Dineen's dictionary.

    Not in the first edition .. it's OT so let's not go there. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bíonn dhá insint ar gach aon scéal. [/FONT]:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭The Chieftain


    Same link, same page , half way down click on “text records”.

    BUT look and spell Sroshops backwards......

    Thanks for both. I confess that I don't know what to make of the latter point!
    - A bit weird, why would they do this?
    - While this backward spelling may work for the word as used from 1740-1763 by Fr. French, it does not appear to fit the variant ("gossops") used by Fr. Stafford from 1763- ca 1808.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭jos28


    Looking for a bit of help please. I'm searching for anyone with the surname Glover IN Castletownbere in the 1820s. I have one record from 1822.
    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a303e20155788

    Just looking through the register which has baptisms and marriages from 1819 and I found this from 1820 but I reckon it's the same thing ???


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    To: jos28: The IrishGenealogy record is the transcription of the original handwritten record on the NLI. IrishGenealogy just hadn't scanned the image. Both the same.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭jos28


    Thought as much Jelly but just wanted to confirm because of the two different dates. The search goes on............


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    My own interpretation is that it was transcribed wrongly. Unless these names were used over and over in the family I would say its the same one. I have more than two apparent couples in my family with the exact same names, and exact same parents on marriage records but the dates are entirely different too. Whilst there is a chance two people of the same names got married to each other, its hard to get the same names with the same parents as well.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Entry 712 in this register has the note - non conj in mat - in the right hand column which I'm guessing means not joined in matrimony.
    But does this note refer to the child, the parents, or perhaps the sponsor?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Alan259


    Hermy wrote: »
    Entry 712 in this register has the note - non conj in mat - in the right hand column which I'm guessing means not joined in matrimony.
    But does this note refer to the child, the parents, or perhaps the sponsor?

    I would think it refers to the parents. Judging by the handwriting it looks like it was noted at the time the baptism was recorded and I can't think of any reason why the priest would note the sponsor's martial status.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Hi Hermy,
    As Alan said it refers to the parents – if you look at the column in which their names appear the literal translation of the printed Latin heading is ‘out of parents legally joined in matrimony’ so the priest corrects this in the ‘comments’ column – ‘not joined in matrimony’. It is a ‘Church’ thing, (see Note below) and I’d add two comments – first, it is ‘nice’ by the standards of the day, no doubt helped by the pre-printed register – for the last while I’ve been trawling baptisms in a Co. Mayo parish (same period) and on ‘plain’ pages I’ve seen for e.g. ‘Mary a Bastard for Michael HESTIN and Cate KELLY’ and ‘Cate a Bastard of Luke KIRBY and Bridget KELLY’.
    Secondly 'your' child Ellen was acknowledged by the father, he has accepted paternity as she is given his surname. While births outside of marriage were much more common that many believe, it was not always the case that paternity was acknowledged and the child would be given the mother's surname. I’d search for a marriage record in the succeeding years, these liaisons often were ‘regularised’ by a later church wedding.

    Note. Apart from succession rights (an illegitimate child had no legal right of inheritance), under Church law an illegitimate male could not become a priest, a situation that prevailed until very recently (Vatican II ?)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Some great information their pedro - thank you.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Another challenge: http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634247#page/58/mode/1up

    The entry that interests me is about halfway down the LH page, date 22 January, surname Shea. I don't want to prejudice any reading by saying what I think the entry is, but you will be trying to read a Latinised record.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    John Shea and Joan Gahan?
    I think there's a daughter (Gobnait) from the same couple on 19 June 1812.
    http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634247#page/75/mode/1up

    Another outside chance of one of the same couple (wife's name diff spelling):
    9th June 1814
    http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634247#page/87/mode/1up


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    spurious wrote: »
    John Shea and Joan Gahan?
    I think there's a daughter (Gobnait) from the same couple on 19 June 1812.
    http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634247#page/75/mode/1up

    Another outside chance of one of the same couple (wife's name diff spelling):
    9th June 1814
    http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634247#page/87/mode/1up

    Thanks. I'll comment later. I'm interested in how you read the child's first name, because I am in correspondence with somebody who has a different take on it than I have.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Thanks. I'll comment later. I'm interested in how you read the child's first name, because I am in correspondence with somebody who has a different take on it than I have.

    The child's name I thought was Margaret.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Margareta Shea, Ego Denis McIniry [bapt] fil(ia)m leg(itima)m Joannes & Joan(n)a Geehan ????? loco Big Island.
    Hard to make out the sponsors, under the tape, Daniel [???] Joanna O’Shea

    So IMO it’s “I Denis McIniry [baptized] the legitimate daughter of John & Joanna Geehan in Big Island”


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Thanks, people. You confirmed my reading.

    [In case you are wondering about it, "Big Island" is the Great Blasket.]


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Can you help decipher this baptism of 21 October, 1812 here - towards bottom of left hand page. Parents were Bourke & English.
    thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Hanora, of Alick Bourk of Ballyhera farmer of Catherine English Sps. Dan.l Breen farmer of ?alli??? Iva + Judy ??a daughter of Mrs Ryan.
    I’d guess the ‘ p place’ relates to the daughter being a stand-in for the absent Mrs Ryan.
    The clerk’s M’s are angular rather than loopy hence Alick rather than Mick.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Thanks Pedro,

    I think the father could/should be "Ulick" and the townland perhaps Ballyhone and I read the final sponsor as Judy Ryan, daughter of "Otto Ryan" maybe??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    I'd accept Ballihone as it makes sense given the Emly location. OK on Ulick also, closer than Mick. Otto, despite the missing bar on the t's and a possible extra letter is possible/probable as I've encountered the Otto Ryan name in that area before - I'd forgotten until you mentioned it!:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Can anyone help me with the last record from Jan 8th here please:

    http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632026#page/24/mode/1up

    The baptism name is Catherine, of Thomas Martin, and .....
    Sponsors George Blackhole and Mary Lyons.

    I want someone's unbiased opinion of what the mother's name is. Her first name seems to be Catherine, but the surname?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    it looks like Leons to me - maybe a misspelling of Lyons ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    I go along with Leons/Lyons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Thanks for your help.

    The name it ought to be is Leonard.

    It was incorrectly transcribed on a records website in the past as 'Lyon' so I had it wrong for years, but with new evidence I've now learned Thomas Martin's wife was Leonard.

    Is it possible they wrote 'Leon' as short for Leonard?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    I would go with 'Leond' with a gaelic style 'd', short for Leonard. Just like Geo. would be short for George.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    I can see how the last letter could be a superscript 'd' with the upright partially missing, and a superscript would usually indicate an abbreviation. He's done the same with William at the top of the page - and he underlined the 'm' for that


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    What puzzled me was that the name Lyons appeared on the next line, correctly spelled.

    When a superscript is used to indicate an abbreviation, I have often found that it is little more than a squiggle. Sometimes it doesn't seem worth the bother of trying to decipher any letters.

    So I fully buy into the abbreviated Leonard interpretation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    When I saw the Leond, I first thought of Leonard, but it is unusual for a surname to be abbreviated, in this way.
    However, I have seen so many bizarre parish registers over the years that nothing shocks me any more.


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