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17-05-2019, 11:38   #31
Hedgelayer
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Such a sad time for the parents.
All the best intentions and then to find out they'll be without child.

Its not good, not good at all.
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17-05-2019, 11:39   #32
RobertKK
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Originally Posted by A Tyrant Named Miltiades! View Post
I don't know if they should be struck off, but on the face of it, the words 'gross negligence' leap off the screen, reading that article.

The idea that anyone thinks this is a basis for reinstating the 8th amendment is preposterous. The story here is a pretty shocking mis-diagnosis.

I don't believe you can sue for wrongful birth (eg baby born after vasectomy), but I assume you can, in theory, sue for wrongful abortion?
It wasn't a wrongful abortion. The diagnosis was wrong, but ultimately this couple asked for an abortion. We were told abortion is about choice, and here they made the wrong one. At 15 weeks it was still early and quite clearly all the tests had not run their course, when this couple chose abortion.
Edit:ok tests later, but could these tests have been done before the abortion?

Last edited by RobertKK; 17-05-2019 at 11:45.
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17-05-2019, 11:43   #33
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What an idiotic (I'm being kind) post.

Glee from the Christian's.
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17-05-2019, 11:46   #34
Jaster Rogue
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I support abortion.

But i'm curious, in this instance if the 8th hadn't been changed would the baby have been aborted (in Ireland)?

What are the facts? without getting emotive over what has happened here please.
Doesn't that just prove our laws were correct and theirs wrong?
Our former laws would not have resulted in the slaughter of an innocent little baby. Theirs would.

Edit meant to quote post about travelling to uk
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17-05-2019, 11:47   #35
mariaalice
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No medical test is definitive, its the quest for and the belief in certainty that is the heart of the problem.

Every risk in life can not be eliminated but somehow we are evolving a society when we think we can take the risk out of everything.
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17-05-2019, 11:49   #36
suicide_circus
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i think most people have heard of cases in which parents were told the baby wouldn't survive only for them to have a healthy teenager years later. happened in my family anyway. doctors are human and can be wrong. tests can be inaccurate or misread. its the risk you take.
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17-05-2019, 11:50   #37
Jaster Rogue
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People are making out here that a little collateral damage is grand. This is an innocent defenceless human being we're talking about. 1 mistake is too many.
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17-05-2019, 11:50   #38
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It wasn't a wrongful abortion. The diagnosis was wrong,
What I mean to ask is, whether anyone has ever taken a case for wrongful abortion as a specific wrong, or tort.

Because if there was negligence, this seems far worse than an 'ordinary' case of negligence where a person is injured, but nobody dies. Or, where somebody does die, but they're dead and they cannot sue or their relatives' award of damages is limited by legislation (as happens here in Ireland). This current scenario seems pretty unique.

Quote:
but ultimately this couple asked for an abortion. We were told abortion is about choice, and here they made the wrong one
It was the right choice for them, given the information they had. You cannot just skip over the fact that the couple seem to believe they were not properly informed.
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17-05-2019, 11:50   #39
54&56
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Whoever is responsible should be struck off offered support and training so the mistake isn't repeated again in the future.
Fixed that for you for three reasons:-

1. Everyone makes mistakes.
2. The person who made the mistake will have to live with the consequences of their error forever. Not an easy thing to do. In a civilised society you support people not throw them on the scrap heap. Who knows what pressure the person was under or whether they were in the last hour of a 12 hour shift when this error was made.
3. What is the benefit to society of throwing away 7 years of medical training (or whatever) because of one genuine mistake? Is it not better for that person to learn from the mistake, get some additional training/counselling and return to serving patients? Do you really think this person is EVER likely to make the same mistake again?
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17-05-2019, 11:53   #40
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Loads of people think that it is free to bring up kids, let's keep having babies.
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17-05-2019, 11:54   #41
54&56
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It is a very sad case, but the couple can't complain, only they made that choice.
The parents and the unborn had no choice to undo the past when the wrong diagnosis was discovered. But ultimately this was the choice of the parents.
Do you really believe the couple can't complain about being given the wrong diagnosis?

Can you elaborate on why?

If you were wrongly diagnosed as having X and opted to have your leg amputated to mitigate or remedy the problem and it turned out the diagnosis was completely wrong would it not cross your mind to perhaps complain? Fair play to you if it wouldn't. It certainly would for me!!
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17-05-2019, 11:54   #42
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People are making out here that a little collateral damage is grand. This is an innocent defenceless human being we're talking about.
I do not think anyone is making out it is "grand". I certainly did not. What we are making out is that it is to be EXPECTED. You said it yourself "The truth hurts sometimes." and the truth is when we implement any medical policy, someone somewhere suffers or dies.

This is not new, not unique, not a surprise, not a shock, not a revelation. It is known.

Vaccination save lives. Yet SOME small number of people die from adverse reactions to them. Drugs save lives. Yet SOME small number of people die from adverse reactions to them. Medical surgery saves lives or improves someone's well being but SOME number of people die from adverse reactions to them.

To twist this case into an anti abortion agenda therefore is as misleading as it is disgusting. We KNOW that allowing people to choose abortion will result in SOME human misery. Either choices made on bad data such as this..... or even death to the pregnant women through adverse effects to the abortion procedure.

The numbers will be small. But they will be there. That is, alas, the reality of medicine. Design a bridge. Build it. Go over it. Again you said it yourself. Sometimes the truth hurts. But we should not crumble from the right decision in the face of pain.
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17-05-2019, 11:57   #43
nullzero
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Originally Posted by 54&56 View Post
Fixed that for you for three reasons:-

1. Everyone makes mistakes.
2. The person who made the mistake will have to live with the consequences of their error forever. Not an easy thing to do. In a civilised society you support people not throw them on the scrap heap. Who knows what pressure the person was under or whether they were in the last hour of a 12 hour shift when this error was made.
3. What is the benefit to society of throwing away 7 years of medical training (or whatever) because of one genuine mistake? Is it not better for that person to learn from the mistake, get some additional training/counselling and return to serving patients? Do you really think this person is EVER likely to make the same mistake again?
After seven years of training a doctor should be capable of waiting for test results before advising a woman to get an abortion.
She didn't have a toe amputated here, a healthy baby was aborted when it shouldnt have been.

What benefit is it to society to have an incompetent doctor making mistakes of this magnitude?
Every apprentice carpenter learns to measure twice and cut once on their first day.

Thanks for fixing it for me BTW, you really set me straight.
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17-05-2019, 11:58   #44
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In the case of cervical screening errors, the Courts have asked for 'absolute confidence' going forward, which may undermine the programme and all other population screening as it is impossible of any medical test.

This outcome is tragic for the parents, but it could have happened in exactly the same way under the previous regimen with the termination taking place abroad. I do hope they recover and in future have a successful pregnancy.

I also hope that as we approach the anniversary of the 8th amendment vote that both sides will refrain from hijacking this very sad situation for their own political aims.
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17-05-2019, 11:59   #45
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Why is there a smugness of the anti abortion camp regarding this tragic situation this isn’t a situation to point score.

The comment “This is the case we’ve been waiting for “ can this be clarified please.
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