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12-04-2018, 12:03   #61
meeeeh
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Originally Posted by tretorn View Post
Anyone who is judged by their peers in a court of law is not guilty on all counts that they have been charged.
Nobody wants them to go to prison people are just asking that they are not forced to cheer them when go to a rugby match.

You are very much obsessed with wealth and wealthy rugby fans. Contact Ulster Rugby that you and your wealthy fans will cover any fall out from sponsors. Put your money where your mouth is.
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12-04-2018, 12:05   #62
take everything
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Not to judge anyone, or to purport to dictate to people what they should and should not read (though I would tread very very carefully on material relating to a trial), but before asking to be PM'd these Whatsapps it's worth asking yourself -- why do you want to see them? Is there any public or private interest in being any further privy to the private lives of these people than we already are? The trial is over. Any relevant evidence has been assessed, weighed up and scrutinised in a court of law. There is no further value in reading anyone's Whatsapps.

The thing that made this trial an affront to the principles of a fair trial was the sensationalist and even borderline voyeuristic nature of the media reporting and public discourse around the trial. I would merely humbly implore people to resist the temptation to be drawn any further into peeking under the veil between peoples' private and public lives -- make a principled stand against this obsession and instead focus on the substantive areas of debate.
The red tops just love it. Saw a headline today in the shop, something like "read all the unseen details about rape case inside...!"
I just go away thinking we really are a pathetic species in many ways. Or maybe this sex obsession and narcissism is just cultural and will eventually fcuk off and pass.
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12-04-2018, 12:10   #63
 
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But You have a problem with Jackson and Olding because you saw their text messages.

For all you know every one else on the team sends similar messages, you havent access to their phones so you are happy to clap them.

Neither Jackson or Olding sent the message "were any sluts ****ed" another player did, are you going to clap for him.

I think if you have a major problem with the whatsapp conversations then you should probably not go to any rugby matches at all.

A soccer player tweeted a message in support of jackson and Olding after the not guilty verdict so you should probably not go to soccer matches either in case you clap him too.
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12-04-2018, 12:19   #64
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I'm not ignoring any rulings, I just think they behaved like absolute scumbags and should deservedly suffer the consequences of this. Polls have demonstrated that most people agree with me.

Mob man hater mentality? Whatever you need to tell yourself buddy. Personally I'm more astounded that people don't see anything wrong with their behavior and think they should just pick up where they left off. That's fcuked up.
It's none of your business how they or anyone else behaves,so long as no laws are broken.

Just because you don't like their behaviour doesn't make it wrong.

Get over yourself .....BUDDY!
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12-04-2018, 12:23   #65
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Seen as they weren't found guilty of anything, I can only assume you mean because of their foolish text messages? Do you judge yourself by the same standards?
To be fair you don't have to be found guilty of anything to find your career in ruins because of your own actions. For example Mel Gibson was never convicted of anti semitism.

People here know that I believe they raped the girl. However even if you accept every single word the players said as true they still acted badly. There's a load of people who wouldn't want to be associated with that. And if a sponsor supports them then it's seen as supporting and endorsing their actions.

And for what it matters, I know the question isn't directed at me but yes, I hold myself to those standards. I've never referred to women using the language they did. I've never been part of a conversation like their whatsapp messages. I've never treated a woman the way they did.
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12-04-2018, 12:24   #66
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I'm not ignoring any rulings, I just think they behaved like absolute scumbags and should deservedly suffer the consequences of this. Polls have demonstrated that most people agree with me.

Mob man hater mentality? Whatever you need to tell yourself buddy. Personally I'm more astounded that people don't see anything wrong with their behavior and think they should just pick up where they left off. That's fcuked up.
It's none of your business how they or anyone else behaves,so long as no laws are broken.

Just because you don't like their behaviour doesn't make it wrong.

Get over yourself .....BUDDY!
Their employers might have an interest though.
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12-04-2018, 12:25   #67
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To be fair you don't have to be found guilty of anything to find your career in ruins because of your own actions. For example Mel Gibson was never convicted of anti semitism.

People here know that I believe they raped the girl. However even if you accept every single word the players said as true they still acted badly. There's a load of people who wouldn't want to be associated with that. And if a sponsor supports them then it's seen as supporting and endorsing their actions.

And for what it matters, I know the question isn't directed at me but yes, I hold myself to those standards. I've never referred to women using the language they did. I've never been part of a conversation like their whatsapp messages. I've never treated a woman the way they did.
Must get lonely up on Walton mountain there,John Boy....
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12-04-2018, 12:26   #68
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She lectured everyone involved bar the young women.
She then ended by basicall saying - of course these men are not guilty but they must pay a price for their behaviour. The implication being 'the price' is their careers in Irish rugby.
You said she spent most of her time saying men are bad. Did she actually say that men are bad? Did she infer it in anyway.

Amnd do you have a link to the program or the transcripts?
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12-04-2018, 12:26   #69
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Can you not see that a majority of irish people think Olding and Jackson were involved in a tawdry, messy happening, where a 19 year old girl left Jackson's house in distress. Language was used that was very degrading to women. Many irish people don't want these men wearing their national jersey and representing their country???

How many times does this have to be spelt out for you week after week?

Whether you want to see them playing with Ireland or not, to be unable or unwilling to comprehend why decent irish people don't want them representing them is unbelievable.
Repeating a point over and over again doesn't mean that everyone has to just agree with you. You are pushing a fairly absolutist view on this -- which is really unhelpful.

The problem I, and many others, have with this view that Jackson & Co should just automatically be deprived their careers is that, if we were to establish a police state where all of our actions, remarks, jokes and errors of judgement were audited and published -- then I would venture that many seats in many offices and other workplaces, currently sat in by otherwise good law-abiding people, would be emptied.

You may believe in your heart and head that this girl was raped, or if not maybe you simply believe that it is wrongdoing enough for a girl to be left distraught and for guys to joke about it. On face value it is certainly cruel. On face value it is callous. On face value it is something which is neither admirable nor worthy of respect. But to say that behaving in such a way privately should automatically deprive someone of their livelihood seems excessive.

This is all the more so as the facts and circumstances of the case do appear to strongly suggest that this poor girl, though she was drunk and may not have ordinarily acted as she did, wound up taking part in a group sex act. This is not to say that her honest perception of not having consented is any way false, but there is a strong case for suggesting that this perception was supplemented more from regret and embarrassment rather than not having consented. I'm not saying this as some undeniable truth -- but the case for finding that there was a rape just was not compelling on the evidence.

The fact that their careers involve representing Ireland in sport, or that you have seemingly appointed yourself the mouthpiece of popular Irish opinion, are irrelevant because rights are rights. We have a rule of law in this country and the rule of law has been applied on this trial. The defendants are presumed innocent under the law and that presumption remains intact from the 'not guilty' verdict.
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12-04-2018, 12:26   #70
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Must get lonely up on Walton mountain there,John Boy....
wht the holy fcuk are you talking about?
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12-04-2018, 12:30   #71
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It's none of your business how they or anyone else behaves,so long as no laws are broken.
How do you work that out?
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12-04-2018, 12:30   #72
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Their employers might have an interest though.
Exactly my point. Thank you. Their employers might....... but you have no business interfering though. Thanks for clearing that up.
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12-04-2018, 12:33   #73
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Word is a number of French teams have expressed an interest in Jackson and Olding. I reckon Ulster will allow them to go and that will stop them for qualifying from playing for Ireland without them being explicitly banned.
I'd say they are being strongly advised to go to France. The Irish team doesn't really need them - they are very replaceable.
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12-04-2018, 12:33   #74
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You said she spent most of her time saying men are bad. Did she actually say that men are bad? Did she infer it in anyway.

Amnd do you have a link to the program or the transcripts?
You got me Grayson. You got me. :rolleyes
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12-04-2018, 12:36   #75
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Word is a number of French teams have expressed an interest in Jackson and Olding. I reckon Ulster will allow them to go and that will stop them for qualifying from playing for Ireland without them being explicitly banned.
I'd say they are being strongly advised to go to France. The Irish team doesn't really need them - they are very replaceable.
'As long as it doesn't happen in Ireland'...What does that hypocrisy remind me of?
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