The Representation of Ireland on the UK Coat of Arms

UglyBolloxFace · 15-02-2011 1:12pm #1

So I've just noticed on a sterling coin that the Irish harp is located on the Coat of Arms (CoA) of the UK.

After further study (..hmm that makes me sound like Jim Corr), I learned that the harp represents Ireland's 'place in the United Kingdom'.

Now, I know this CoA was designed centuries ago, but is it not time for it to be replaced out of respect for us Irish people and our nation? And I realise that in present day it represents Northern Ireland but surely they could design a new emblem of sorts?

AFAIK the harp symbol was introduced for Ireland by Henry VIII so in theory it is not 'ours', but over the centuries it has been incorporated into our lives so it is indeed a part of us and not of the UK.

What do you think of this?

Picture source:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/motto.html

Bottle_of_Smoke · 15-02-2011 1:33pm

First noticed this at Princess Diana's funeral. Its a bit strange kind of similar to the use of St Patrick's saltire in the Union flag.

Personally its an emblem of a foreign nation so they can put what they like on it and its not gonna bother me. Kind of surprised Irish unionists don't make more of a fuss about it though, like say suggesting having it changed to the red hand. You'll notice around marching season when there's hundreds of unionist/loyalist flags on the streets in Northern Ireland you'll never see a St.Patricks saltire flag. However they did use the harp on the likes of the RUC badge so perhaps have affinity with it despite it being a reminder that Ireland was once a single entity within the UK

aDeener · 15-02-2011 1:46pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

First noticed this at Princess Diana's funeral. Its a bit strange kind of similar to the use of St Patrick's saltire in the Union flag.

Personally its an emblem of a foreign nation so they can put what they like on it and its not gonna bother me. Kind of surprised Irish unionists don't make more of a fuss about it though, like say suggesting having it changed to the red hand. You'll notice around marching season when there's hundreds of unionist/loyalist flags on the streets in Northern Ireland you'll never see a St.Patricks saltire flag. However they did use the harp on the likes of the RUC badge so perhaps have affinity with it despite it being a reminder that Ireland was once a single entity within the UK

ahh god be with the days!

JustinDee · 15-02-2011 1:49pm

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Now, I know this CoA was designed centuries ago, but is it not time for it to be replaced out of respect for us Irish people and our nation? And I realise that in present day it represents Northern Ireland but surely they could design a new emblem of sorts?

It is the least of Ireland's problems right now.
Put it on the list and we can get to it when the economy stabilises and grows, the banking regulatory system is changed, the property market returns, tribal/party politics are fizzled out and the bailout debt is fully paid.

Dannyboy83 · 15-02-2011 1:53pm

Wales isn't even represented on the Jack/Union Jack, since it was annexed by England in 1282.

Sh1t happens.

Fratton Fred · 15-02-2011 2:09pm

Would it not just be easier for the RoI to stop using it?

MyKeyG · 15-02-2011 2:19pm

It doesn't bother me at all. Going through all that trouble for sensitivity is a bit uneccesary. It reminds me of the time some guy tried to sue the US government to change the money since as an aetheist he found it offensive to carry around cash in his pocket that proclaimed 'In god we trust'. I mean a belief is all well and good but they're just objects whose meaning is a thing of the past.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 15-02-2011 2:19pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Would it not just be easier for the RoI to stop using it?

No no, we want to have our flag and eat it.

catbear · 15-02-2011 2:32pm

I could be wrong but isn't the harp the Rep of Ireland uses orientated the other way round to the one the British flag? It's a different design of harp too.

I wonder if reversing the harp was warning that we were going backwards.

T runner · 15-02-2011 3:17pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Would it not just be easier for the RoI to stop using it?

The harp is an established symbol of Ireland.

If we started using the three Lions on our flag would you suggest the English stop using this? No? Same principle would apply here.

I would have more issues with British Lordships over sovereign Irish territory, but unfortunately as part of Ireland is still under British rule the excuse is there for this arrogant and condescending behaviour.

Wolfe Tone · 15-02-2011 3:28pm

catbear wrote: »

I could be wrong but isn't the harp the Rep of Ireland uses orientated the other way round to the one the British flag? It's a different design of harp too.

I wonder if reversing the harp was warning that we were going backwards.

Indeed.

Compared to

Duke Leonal Felmet · 15-02-2011 4:25pm

Wasn't the first St Patricks parade a protestant one?

p1akuw47h5r3it · 16-02-2011 12:25am

Who cares!

Fratton Fred · 16-02-2011 12:31am

T runner wrote: »

The harp is an established symbol of Ireland.

If we started using the three Lions on our flag would you suggest the English stop using this? No? Same principle would apply here.

I would have more issues with British Lordships over sovereign Irish territory, but unfortunately as part of Ireland is still under British rule the excuse is there for this arrogant and condescending behaviour.

Established by the British. Why don't you invent your own symbols rather than pinch ours

KeithAFC · 16-02-2011 12:35am

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Who cares!

Agree.

Wolfe Tone · 16-02-2011 12:39am

KeithAFC wrote: »

Agree.

Yeah I dont really care either tbh

paul71 · 16-02-2011 12:44am

Not really anything controversal here.

So the harp is on a UK coat of arms.

Symbols like this always become mixed up, an earlier poster alluded to the Red Hand as a unionist symbol, which it is now, but is in fact the O'Neill coat of arms. The clan which mounted the most effective campaign against British rule anywhere in the world until the American Revolution.