Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Days of three-bed semis in Dublin "are over"

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    keoclassic
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭keoclassic


    The greed in some of these threads is amazing. Some people seem to think that home buyers should be treated like the units in which they are trying to place them. Some of these structures are nothing more than chicken coups designed to maximise profit. Shameless stuff.


  • Options
    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    screamer wrote: »
    With the problems we have with anti social behaviour in Ireland and little if anything that can be done about it, combined with the requirement for developers to include a certain percentage of their properties as affordable or social housing, I don’t think I’d take a present of an apartment in such a complex.

    Looks to me like most social problems are in housing estates.
    Dublinflyer wrote: »
    Oh no no no, we can't be doing that, it will ruin the aesthetic of the developers bank balances, I mean the city skyline

    They will do well out of it.
    keoclassic wrote: »
    The greed in some of these threads is amazing. Some people seem to think that home buyers should be treated like the units in which they are trying to place them. Some of these structures are nothing more than chicken coups designed to maximise profit. Shameless stuff.

    Unless you think people here are all developers I don't understand the accusations of greed.

    My own opinion is, living in a 2 bedroom apartment as I do, that its grand if there is no family and no pets. We have neither so far.


  • Options
    #34
    keoclassic
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭keoclassic


    micosoft wrote: »
    Who said they will be tiny one bed apartments? There are lots of options between a three bed semi and a studio apartment.... how do you think the rest of Europe lives?

    The thing is we are " not the rest of Europe". Why should we give up on our previous way of housing just to mimic theirs?? I like living in a house with front and back gardens! There is nothing more garish looking than blocks and blocks of high density housing. If it hasn't worked for social housing, why do you think it will work for private?


  • Options
    #35
    random_banter
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭random_banter


    To make apartment living as successful as in other countries, our planning criteria would have to change. It works well in other places, I'm not convinced it would work here.

    We're in a 2 bed around the docks - no green spaces given or planned for with all the development around here. F*ck all storage space, vs. in the US or in Europe where you get storage units at basement level. Balconies the size of an ironing board which is still better than some places you see in town, with no balcony at all. Lack of natural light, adequate space and green spaces for people to really build a life and grow families is the reason high rise will never work here. And I have zero faith that they will change the planning regulations to cater for really "living" in these places.

    We couldn't afford a 3 bed semi D for our first home and needed somewhere to live - but you can be damn sure that we're focused on that now - room to grow and expand as a family and even a small garden with some green space are priority no. 1 (along with many many many others who've realised this during the pandemic).


  • Options
    #36
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    screamer wrote: »
    With the problems we have with anti social behaviour in Ireland and little if anything that can be done about it, combined with the requirement for developers to include a certain percentage of their properties as affordable or social housing, I don’t think I’d take a present of an apartment in such a complex.

    Get rid of those requirements then. Simple as that. What builders and developers build should be there own business. Planners and objectors are holding things up and it's time that ended.
    There's a demand for affordable housing.
    High rise high density apartments make best use of expensive land and would supply the rental and buyers market faster.
    Planning - political interference - regulations objections high taxation rental controls and requirements to provide "social" housing is the the root of and perpetuates the problem.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    screamer wrote: »
    With the problems we have with anti social behaviour in Ireland and little if anything that can be done about it, combined with the requirement for developers to include a certain percentage of their properties as affordable or social housing, I don’t think I’d take a present of an apartment in such a complex.


    This is the biggest issue imo, you can quote about how they live in Scandinavia until the cows come home but creating high density housing in former industrial estates in Dublin where councilors for political reasons will want to increase the social and 'affordable' levels to near 50% is a recipe for disaster.

    Not to mention the housing associations that will purchase up even more of them.


  • Options
    #38
    Fuascailteoir
    Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    random_banter wrote: »
    To make apartment living as successful as in other countries, our planning criteria would have to change. It works well in other places, I'm not convinced it would work here.

    We're in a 2 bed around the docks - no green spaces given or planned for with all the development around here. F*ck all storage space, vs. in the US or in Europe where you get storage units at basement level. Balconies the size of an ironing board which is still better than some places you see in town, with no balcony at all. Lack of natural light, adequate space and green spaces for people to really build a life and grow families is the reason high rise will never work here. And I have zero faith that they will change the planning regulations to cater for really "living" in these places.

    We couldn't afford a 3 bed semi D for our first home and needed somewhere to live - but you can be damn sure that we're focused on that now - room to grow and expand as a family and even a small garden with some green space are priority no. 1 (along with many many many others who've realised this during the pandemic).

    One of the main problems is noise and lack of proper planning on relation to noise transfer between units. Could never return to living with hearing the person above, below and to the sides having a game of bowling at night


  • Options
    #39
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Given our recent history of building substandard apartment complexes which have landed owners with expensive unexpected bills for remediation of defects I can understand people's lack of enthusiasm for apartment living.

    We need proper, independently inspected and certified building standards which fully indemnify owners from defects and non compliance to building and fire safety standards. People have seen the joke that is self certification. Nobody wants to be the butt of that joke.

    Add to this inadequate sound insulation between units, management fees, underfunded sinking funds causing problems for resale etc. I can understand why apartments might not be people's first choice.


  • Options
    #40
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Dublinflyer wrote: »
    Interesting article in the IT this morning where the Dublin City Planner says that the days of 2 story houses are no more and it's all high density housing from now on that people want. It's behind a paywall.....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/days-of-three-bed-semis-in-dublin-are-over-as-high-density-housing-plans-take-hold-1.4460746

    Is it just me but given the shift to working from home at least some of the time that a lot of people will doing is this not an opinion that is a bit outdated now and they are creating another mess of tiny one bedroom apartments with no space that anyone with families won't want? Or will everyone with family's move out of the city and leave it to all the single people out there?

    Great stuff from the very same council that's given us 2 storey council housing right in the city centre.

    Right beside Tara st station to add insult to injury.


  • Options
    #41
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,797 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Great stuff from the very same council that's given us 2 storey council housing right in the city centre.

    I've always been quite bewildered by that.

    There should be no new residential buildings inside the canals of less than 8 storeys, or more ideally, 10.

    As others have mentioned, the continental model of 3 and 4 bed multi level apartments within larger buildings, is perfectly comfortable and appropriate accommodation for life long family dwelling, owned or rented.

    If this Council wants to preach about the end of old style housing, it would want to get serious and innovative about the quality and design of what will replace it, instead of the developer led model, which despite all protestations we haven't moved away from one bit.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Should also build apartments in or near existing suburban estates instead of more houses. They don't need to be huge blocks of 6/8 stories, just 3 or 4 stories that don't dominate the area. Just use the space that would be given to a front lawn and back garden; the residents could use the existing communal green areas of the estate.


  • Options
    #43
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,797 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    Should also build apartments in or near existing suburban estates instead of more houses. They don't need to be huge blocks of 6/8 stories, just 3 or 4 stories that don't dominate the area. Just use the space that would be given to a front lawn and back garden; the residents could use the existing communal green areas of the estate.

    This is already a pretty common model. I'm thinking of the redevelopment of the Dun Laoghaire Golf Course site that has delivered 1,100 homes in this sort of mix.


  • Options
    #44
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    No one is making land so we need to use what we have in the best way possible. We need to retain a level of green space, outside space and if that means building up then so be it.

    But I do think we need to look at other countries. I raised my family for a number of years in a 2 bed apt abroad. We had washer dryer in unit, open plan office space on one whole floor for anyone who was working from home, roof terrace with BBQ, play room, gym, recreational room, cinema room, basement storage also for bikes etc. Parks and playgrounds were plentiful on our doorstep. I never felt confined. Yet here most apts have nothing other than the apt itself.


  • Options
    #45
    bennyineire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Built in the early 80's, it's near Lewisham I think...

    His done work over the years on it, I think his house footprint is 20% smaller than my house, yet has 30-35% More sq footage within the house

    I'm struggling to see you point then TBH. This thread is about future planning in Dublin so I've no idea why you said "my uncle has a house in London"

    Have you any idea how many houses were built in Dublin since the 80's?


  • Options
    #46
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Great stuff from the very same council that's given us 2 storey council housing right in the city centre.

    Right beside Tara st station to add insult to injury.

    Council tenants are expected to live how the middle classes used to. Young middle class couples are expected to shove themselves in apartments or go to Ashbourne, but its gardens and stables and parking spaces for those who have no need to be in the city.


  • Options
    #47
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    LOL at Tara street. Anyone been to Dunshaughlin lately, the place is exploding.

    Also the N3 Virginia bypass is also at design stage I think. I think this will also make it practical to commute from Enniskillen daily.


    Dublin city has enough low rise as it is. There's too many people and too little space, it needs to go higher density. I lived in an apartment near the pheonix park for a few years. Thought it was a great location and the apartment was pretty good, better than some of the old semi-ds I shared.

    Not everything we build has to be for families. There's a huge amount of singles, older people and couples with no kids needing accomodation too.


  • Options
    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    Get rid of those requirements then. Simple as that. What builders and developers build should be there own business. Planners and objectors are holding things up and it's time that ended.
    There's a demand for affordable housing.
    High rise high density apartments make best use of expensive land and would supply the rental and buyers market faster.
    Planning - political interference - regulations objections high taxation rental controls and requirements to provide "social" housing is the the root of and perpetuates the problem.

    You might want to get your head out of Ayn Rand's arse and investigate the Celtic tiger era, a time of free market profiteering, self certification, and little planning or government intervention.

    Spoilers: It didn't end well.


  • Options
    #49
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You might want to get your head out of Ayn Rand's arse and investigate the Celtic tiger era, a time of free market profiteering, self certification, and little planning or government intervention.

    Spoilers: It didn't end well.

    Planning objections and regulation led to the building of overpriced two story houses making the most inefficient use possible of expensive land fueling the bubble making land more expensive which was carried over into ever higher house prices and political demands for banks to lend more money causing overheating and a crash.
    If high rise high density apartment blocks had been built this could have been avoided.
    Without incentives to build affordable accomodation it won't happen.
    Remove the barriers and increase the incentives and allow the market to work.


  • Options
    #50
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭blackbox


    jrosen wrote: »

    But I do think we need to look at other countries. I raised my family for a number of years in a 2 bed apt abroad. We had washer dryer in unit, open plan office space on one whole floor for anyone who was working from home, roof terrace with BBQ, play room, gym, recreational room, cinema room, basement storage also for bikes etc. Parks and playgrounds were plentiful on our doorstep. I never felt confined. Yet here most apts have nothing other than the apt itself.

    I think this is a great idea, but many would complain that people shouldn't have to use shared facilities. They complain that it shouldn't even be allowed for students.


  • Options
    #51
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    blackbox wrote: »
    I think this is a great idea, but many would complain that people shouldn't have to use shared facilities. They complain that it shouldn't even be allowed for students.

    Co-living is a totally different story.
    Having to share bathrooms and kitchens with other people, and only having your room to yourself, is a totally different situation.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    stoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Apartment living could work with proper design and styling, with appropriate amenities, open spaces, parks, shops etc. all incorporated into the overall plan. In a previous job I did supermarket delivery throughout Dublin and in all that time I did not come across any apartment blocks that I though to myself that I would like to live here.
    Bad design, shoddy builds and depressing decor. Access gates not working, lifts out of order, lights not working was a very common theme.

    However in a previous life I did live in an apartment block when working in the states. Immaculate common garden, all amenities, shops restaurants etc. on the ground floor, schools close by, public transport just outside the door.

    People cannot live in a social or cultural vacuum, living places must be designed with this in mind.
    I haven't seen one of these in Dublin yet.


  • Options
    #53
    gourcuff
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭gourcuff


    stoneill wrote: »
    Apartment living could work with proper design and styling, with appropriate amenities, open spaces, parks, shops etc. all incorporated into the overall plan. In a previous job I did supermarket delivery throughout Dublin and in all that time I did not come across any apartment blocks that I though to myself that I would like to live here.
    Bad design, shoddy builds and depressing decor. Access gates not working, lifts out of order, lights not working was a very common theme.

    However in a previous life I did live in an apartment block when working in the states. Immaculate common garden, all amenities, shops restaurants etc. on the ground floor, schools close by, public transport just outside the door.

    People cannot live in a social or cultural vacuum, living places must be designed with this in mind.
    I haven't seen one of these in Dublin yet.


    What about Donnybrook Gardens.. central location, close to parks and amenities, spacious apartments...

    https://www.cairnhomes.com/new-homes/donnybrook-gardens/


  • Options
    #54
    doublejobbing 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    Has anybody from DCC ever actually walked around the local authority estates they built from the 60's to the 80's? You could fit 20% to a third more houses on to green spaces and empty street corners here and there while still leaving plenty of recreational space. Even more if you built low rise apartments.

    Yet the council insist on giving away public land, entering into public private developments, all this other nonsense. Build more on the estates that already exist. In most cases all of the housing list applicants from one estate could be housed in no builds infilled on to the estate itself.


  • Options
    #55
    Taylor365
    Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    If you cant afford it, share facilities til you can.

    Too many baby mommas handed €260,000-€350,000 assets for doing sweet fa.


Advertisement