COOLOCK residents are moving to try to block plans

lola85 · 19-10-2019 6:01pm #1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/reeling-in-disbelief-north-dublin-residents-bid-to-block-highrise-development-in-coolock-38451308.html

“The scheme will house a total of 88 one, two and three-bedroom apartments. Permission was granted despite 238 formal objections lodged by residents who are deeply opposed to the development for a number of reasons.”

Seriously will we ever solve this homeless crisis with most developments been opposed by locals??

How can we ever make progress on this issue???

friendlyfun · 19-10-2019 6:09pm

"Residents are also concerned the development may interfere with important archaeological artefacts that may lie underground"

They're really scraping the barrel

lola85 · 19-10-2019 6:10pm

It’s ridiculous.

Everyone giving out the government are doing nothing yet every development seems to be opposed.

Plumbthedepths · 19-10-2019 6:12pm

lola85 wrote: »

It’s ridiculous.

Everyone giving out the government are doing nothing yet every development seems to be opposed.

I couldn't find it in the article but is the proposed development social and affordable housing?

wakka12 · 19-10-2019 6:13pm

Haha and the residents were probably saying they know we need houses so badly but unfortunately the prime land outside my home is not the right place to start for a number of bull**** reasons, what excuses did they give? Wildlife, traffic, noise, visual obstruction?

sdanseo · 19-10-2019 6:15pm

These people complaining need a slap across the face.

There is a housing crisis. Building masses of social homes is not the answer and here is a private developer trying to build.

The same people are complaining about the lack of housing and some of them are demanding handouts. Describing 5 and 6 stories as high rise is as stupid as is it ignorant: we're talking about the middle of a capital city.

Politicians need to unite on issues of public attitude like this - there are an ever growing number of examples where the backward, self obsessed, parish pump and frankly uninformed Irish public need to be educated as to how the bloody world works.

Jesus (if he ever existed) wept.

lola85 · 19-10-2019 6:17pm

FF councilor brabazon siding with the residents of course.

lola85 · 19-10-2019 6:18pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I couldn't find it in the article but is the proposed development social and affordable housing?

Don’t know, not that it makes a difference.

Plumbthedepths · 19-10-2019 6:25pm

lola85 wrote: »

Don’t know, not that it makes a difference.

Actually it does, the housing crisis is not just driven by lack of supply, affordability is as much a problem.

Plumbthedepths · 19-10-2019 6:26pm

sdanseo wrote: »

These people complaining need a slap across the face.

There is a housing crisis. Building masses of social homes is not the answer and here is a private developer trying to build.

The same people are complaining about the lack of housing and some of them are demanding handouts. Describing 5 and 6 stories as high rise is as stupid as is it ignorant: we're talking about the middle of a capital city.

Politicians need to unite on issues of public attitude like this - there are an ever growing number of examples where the backward, self obsessed, parish pump and frankly uninformed Irish public need to be educated as to how the bloody world works.

Jesus (if he ever existed) wept.

Building masses of social housing is the answer, relying on market forces to solve the problem is not working.

lola85 · 19-10-2019 6:29pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually it does, the housing crisis is not just driven by lack of supply, affordability is as much a problem.

But lack of supply is an issue too?

The more houses for everyone the more prices go down.

People who can only afford social housing aren’t the only ones who matter too.

Ready4Boarding · 19-10-2019 6:30pm

Coolock residents are moving to try to block plans by a developer to build two high-rise apartments...

"The development consists of one six-storey apartment block and another five-storey block."

I didn't realise the term high-rise has been watered down so much that it now includes six storey buildings.

is_that_so · 19-10-2019 6:32pm

High rise? Cadbury's is bigger!

Mr Jinx · 19-10-2019 6:32pm

friendlyfun wrote: »

"Residents are also concerned the development may interfere with important archaeological artefacts that may lie underground"

They're really scraping the barrel

Probably a few bodies buried in concrete!

sdanseo · 19-10-2019 6:34pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Building masses of social housing is the answer, relying on market forces to solve the problem is not working.

We did that before, it didn't work. It creates areas of perpetual low income and costs the state billions in the long run. We need to encourage people to own their own homes or rent.

I agree finding a way to do that is proving incredibly difficult because of commercial greed. But there has to be a balance between a socialist state and the opposite like in the USA where you have the likes of skid row. The key is in the abolition of the fantasy that everyone should own their own home. Renting long term is perfectly acceptable once it's kept affordable.

pablo128 · 19-10-2019 6:35pm

sdanseo wrote: »

These people complaining need a slap across the face.

There is a housing crisis. Building masses of social homes is not the answer and here is a private developer trying to build.

The same people are complaining about the lack of housing and some of them are demanding handouts. Describing 5 and 6 stories as high rise is as stupid as is it ignorant: we're talking about the middle of a capital city.

Politicians need to unite on issues of public attitude like this - there are an ever growing number of examples where the backward, self obsessed, parish pump and frankly uninformed Irish public need to be educated as to how the bloody world works.

Jesus (if he ever existed) wept.

I'm not arguing with any of your points, but Coolock is hardly in the middle of a capital city. There's plenty of space there.

Plumbthedepths · 19-10-2019 6:35pm

lola85 wrote: »

But lack of supply is an issue too?
Previous FG sold off vast tracts of land at knockdown prices and have not dealt with the land hoarding issue in any meaningful way
The more houses for everyone the more prices go down.
Slight problem there as it is not in the interests of private developers to meet demand.
People who can only afford social housing aren’t the only ones who matter too.

Which is exactly why the state should embark on a major social housing building programme as was done in the early life of this state. Supply was also impacted by the fire sale of developments by NAMA.
Workers also live in social housing, just saying.

Spanish Eyes · 19-10-2019 6:38pm

Depends on where you live
.
Easy to castigate others if you are never going to be in the catchment for such developments.

lola85 · 19-10-2019 6:39pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Which is exactly why the state should embark on a major social housing building programme as was done in the early life of this state. Supply was also impacted by the fire sale of developments by NAMA.
Workers also live in social housing, just saying.

Yeah but the money isn’t there.

Back when they built huge amounts of social housing the standards were non existent with no insulation, fire standards etc

It was cheap and so was Labour.

Nowadays the standards are so high it’s ridiculously expensive to build anything all because of the boom under FF were dirt boxes were thrown up without any regulation.

See priory hall and many other developments.

sdanseo · 19-10-2019 6:40pm

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm not arguing with any of your points, but Coolock is hardly in the middle of a capital city. There's plenty of space there.

It's about 8km from O'Connell Street. It is the middle of the metropolitan area.

We cannot keep sprawling. We have to build upwards and do so more aggresively.

Six stories should be the minimum new build height inside the M50.
12 stories inside the canal ring.
This needs to be combined of course with sufficiently capable public transport for which there seems to be no urgency or political will in this country.

All the while, we continue to appeal to multinationals to come here despite there being nowhere to live, which puts pressure on everyone. I'm a decent example, I'm 31, live at home because can't afford anywhere else, despite being on a decent wage.

The Irish vision for development is backward and any limited progress is happening too slowly, on more than just housing. The sooner we pick ourselves out of the 1980s and realise we need to start making better policy and getting more done, the better.

Plumbthedepths · 19-10-2019 6:40pm

sdanseo wrote: »

We did that before, it didn't work. It creates areas of perpetual low income and costs the state billions in the long run. We need to encourage people to own their own homes or rent.

It has worked in many areas and not in others. If you build large social housing you need to put in services and amenities plus you also need to have a diverse mix of tenant's. Which is not impossible.

I agree finding a way to do that is proving incredibly difficult because of commercial greed. But there has to be a balance between a socialist state and the opposite like in the USA where you have the likes of skid row. The key is in the abolition of the fantasy that everyone should own their own home. Renting long term is perfectly acceptable once it's kept affordable.

Many have accepted they will never own their own home, however if proper tenant rights were implemented that exist in other European countries ownership would not be as important an issue to people.

Spanish Eyes · 19-10-2019 6:45pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Many have accepted they will never own their own home, however if proper tenant rights were implemented that exist in other European countries ownership would not be as important an issue to people.

Tenant rights are there now. What do you mean?

Plumbthedepths · 19-10-2019 6:48pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Tenant rights are there now. What do you mean?

Security of tenure is the most obvious, and at present only exists in a council house.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra · 19-10-2019 6:53pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Building masses of social housing is the answer, relying on market forces to solve the problem is not working.

You're not supposed to say that. Capitalism is a fair and frankly wonderful economic model that naturally rewards those born into wealth the best among us. Questioning capitalism or any of its facets is like questioning the importance of Google and Facebook to Ireland, it's sacrilege.

Spanish Eyes · 19-10-2019 7:01pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Security of tenure is the most obvious, and at present only exists in a council house.

OK so private LLs have to give up their property ad infinitum do you think. Well we are getting close to that, but most LLs cannot or do not want to to do this.

Enter REITs and co living rabbit hutches. That’s the plan now with licences for co living rather than legally protected leases via RTB. But the demand is there. Apparently.

The accidental or amateur LL provides Hap. Can’t see the REITs doing that.

lola85 · 19-10-2019 7:05pm

We’re going off the topic.

NIMBYS backed by councilors are just as big a problem in the housing crisis.

micosoft · 19-10-2019 7:14pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually it does, the housing crisis is not just driven by lack of supply, affordability is as much a problem.

But supply of what exactly?

Because the actual issue which the government should be focused on is the supply of serviced land which is much more important than the idiots thinking you just build houses. A lack of serviced land is policy led. Of course things like having a functioning property tax and water charges would help fund servicing this land along with all the other services - public transport, schools, health centres etc. Secondary challenges around making capital available, having people trained (shortage of key trade skills)

But no. The lsolution is have the government (actually councils) invest capital and risk in an area outside their competence getting into the construction business

is_that_so · 19-10-2019 7:15pm

lola85 wrote: »

We’re going off the topic.

NIMBYS backed by councilors are just as big a problem in the housing crisis.

That's so they can be on the right side of history when it's built.

micosoft · 19-10-2019 7:22pm

Liberta Per Gli Ultra wrote: »

You're not supposed to say that. Capitalism is a fair and frankly wonderful economic model that naturally rewards those born into wealth the best among us. Questioning capitalism or any of its facets is like questioning the importance of Google and Facebook to Ireland, it's sacrilege.

And is questioning the questioner if they have really thought through their "question" is sacrilege. Because you can always make the situation worse you know. Thinking you can solve the housing crisis with a "Guberment build mo houses" one liner is the issue in this country because it doesn't even understand what the problem.

Secondly the Capitalist system is recognised by pretty much all as a flawed system, though suspect you mean to say "free market" (we have a mixed economy). You use policy through taxation and regulation to ameliorate the worst impact.

kona · 19-10-2019 7:24pm

sdanseo wrote: »

It's about 8km from O'Connell Street. It is the middle of the metropolitan area.

We cannot keep sprawling. We have to build upwards and do so more aggresively.

Six stories should be the minimum new build height inside the M50.
12 stories inside the canal ring.
This needs to be combined of course with sufficiently capable public transport for which there seems to be no urgency or political will in this country.

All the while, we continue to appeal to multinationals to come here despite there being nowhere to live, which puts pressure on everyone. I'm a decent example, I'm 31, live at home because can't afford anywhere else, despite being on a decent wage.

The Irish vision for development is backward and any limited progress is happening too slowly, on more than just housing. The sooner we pick ourselves out of the 1980s and realise we need to start making better policy and getting more done, the better.

**** that ****. They need to accept that theres loads of places other than dublin, which would benefit greatly from some ****in investment and employment.

Sucking the life out of the country to flog overpriced high rise kips to people who have to leave the rest of the country to find work.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra · 19-10-2019 7:33pm

micosoft wrote: »

Secondly the Capitalist system is recognised by pretty much all as a flawed system, though suspect you mean to say "free market" (we have a mixed economy). You use policy through taxation and regulation to ameliorate the worst impact.

No, I didn't. I said "capitalism or any of its facets", the "free market" being a facet.

And is questioning the questioner if they have really thought through their "question" is sacrilege.

In English next time, cheers.

COOLOCK residents are moving to try to block plans

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