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2010 MLB Postseason Chat

2

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    muppet_man wrote: »
    Top of fifth now and Lee is pitching super...think it's only Teixeira dat got to 1st with a walk.
    ESPN are say he'll be a yankee next year...money talks I suppose

    It must be weird for him pitching a game so well against a team he'll almost certainly be playing for next year.

    I liked Nolan Ryan's quote when asked how much it'll cost to sign him next season and his answer was "ask those guys over there" (meaning the Yankees)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 idwfan


    I don't know if Cliff Lee will join the Yankees in the off season. They had a lack lustre attempet turned down last season and they didn't loko too serious about it. Steinberg Jr. has been coy about him joining saying that if he comes someone may have to go essentially.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭krustydoyle


    idwfan wrote: »
    I don't know if Cliff Lee will join the Yankees in the off season. They had a lack lustre attempet turned down last season and they didn't loko too serious about it. Steinberg Jr. has been coy about him joining saying that if he comes someone may have to go essentially.


    So would you not swap him for burnett??? But i really hope A.J gets his confidence back cos he is a serious pitcher on his day..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    idwfan wrote: »
    I don't know if Cliff Lee will join the Yankees in the off season. They had a lack lustre attempet turned down last season and they didn't loko too serious about it. Steinberg Jr. has been coy about him joining saying that if he comes someone may have to go essentially.

    After the way he pitched in Game 3, there is no way the Yankees aren't going to do whatever it takes ($$$$) to get Cliff Lee in pinstripes next season especially if they go onto lose this series and the fans get restless because it'll have been a year since they won the World Series!! He can name his price and the length of contract he wants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Last time I was here I said 'go Giants!'

    and would you believe, they are going all the way!!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    The Yankees have to resign Jeter though and they don't exactly have anything coming off the books. No one is paying Burnett's contract for them. If the Royals shop Greinke, I think you'll see Montero being offered and possibly taken. They are going to need a starter or too, but I'm not sure if they will up their budget enough for Lee. I mean, if they do sign him, they have to give him CC money don't they? Cashman is not stupid. They're already very top heavy with big contracts; they could get into a very precarious situation if they add something like 6 years of Lee on top of that.

    Question is, if they don't sign him, who does? The Angels could hardly afford both Lee and Crawford. The Rangers, probably not. The Red Sox, no. The Mets, hardly. The Cubs, no way. Who else can afford him? Minnesota? Maybe. Phillies? No. I really don't know. Gonna be interesting.

    Personally I think the Mets could chase Lee and Vazquez and be in the playoffs next year with a bit of luck at second base and in the pen. But the money probably won't be there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    The Yankees have to resign Jeter though and they don't exactly have anything coming off the books. No one is paying Burnett's contract for them. If the Royals shop Greinke, I think you'll see Montero being offered and possibly taken. They are going to need a starter or too, but I'm not sure if they will up their budget enough for Lee. I mean, if they do sign him, they have to give him CC money don't they? Cashman is not stupid. They're already very top heavy with big contracts; they could get into a very precarious situation if they add something like 6 years of Lee on top of that.

    Question is, if they don't sign him, who does? The Angels could hardly afford both Lee and Crawford. The Rangers, probably not. The Red Sox, no. The Mets, hardly. The Cubs, no way. Who else can afford him? Minnesota? Maybe. Phillies? No. I really don't know. Gonna be interesting.

    Personally I think the Mets could chase Lee and Vazquez and be in the playoffs next year with a bit of luck at second base and in the pen. But the money probably won't be there.

    The whole Mets thing's up in the air until they get a new GM in. Once he's appointed, we'll be in a better position to judge who they're going to go after. I think Lee will be out of their price range though. The pen wasn't too bad this season, it was hitting that let them down so but I don't know who they should go after.

    As for the playoffs, I wouldn't count the Phillies out yet. Of the 3 games left they have Halladay, Oswalt and Hamels lined up to pitch and even though 2 of them lost the first time out, there isn't a better 1-2-3 in the game. It's on well past my bedtime tonight but I'd love to see Halladay v Lincecum II.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Both series hotting up now. 3-2 in both and even though they are behind, I still make the Yankees and especially the Phillies the favourites.

    The Phillies have 2 home games with 2 'as good as aces' pitchers on the mound while I think the pressure will get to the Rangers 9even with Cliff Lee on the mound in game 7).

    Here's hoping for a great weekend of baseball!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Holden Caulfield


    Fancy both to go the distance tbh.

    Lee to get it done in game 7 against a woeful Yankees and the best team in the league to storm back to beat the Giants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    Both series hotting up now. 3-2 in both and even though they are behind, I still make the Yankees and especially the Phillies the favourites.

    The Phillies have 2 home games with 2 'as good as aces' pitchers on the mound while I think the pressure will get to the Rangers 9even with Cliff Lee on the mound in game 7).

    Here's hoping for a great weekend of baseball!!

    Jack, the Yankees cannot be favourites. They can't! Not only do the Rangers only have to win one, but the Yankees have to beat Cliff Lee. They have to, no way round it. I realise that you know this already but, man, I'd be stunned if the Rangers didn't win this one now. Stunned.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Jack, the Yankees cannot be favourites. They can't! Not only do the Rangers only have to win one, but the Yankees have to beat Cliff Lee. They have to, no way round it. I realise that you know this already but, man, I'd be stunned if the Rangers didn't win this one now. Stunned.

    I agree. And I think they'll get it done tonight, just.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    8-10 wrote: »
    I agree. And I think they'll get it done tonight, just.

    Bigger margin than I thought! Really kept those yankee bats down. 63 hits to 38 in the series total....well deserved win for Texas!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Jack, the Yankees cannot be favourites. They can't! Not only do the Rangers only have to win one, but the Yankees have to beat Cliff Lee. They have to, no way round it. I realise that you know this already but, man, I'd be stunned if the Rangers didn't win this one now. Stunned.

    I'm happy to be wrong in this case!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭muppet_man


    As a yankeey I'm dissapointed at 4-2 loss but not suppprised. I think Rangers should of won of it stright out.
    For last few weeks NYY didn't look sharp enough. They had their league in their own hands and let it slip. I belive it it was 2 home loss to Balimore towards the end. Win them and forget wildcard.
    Post-season big palyers didn't stand up. Arod, swish, cano what did they do? Jeter as led bat, how many bases did he get against rangers? I'd love to know.

    Anyways after 50 years good luck to rangers. Hope to see Lee at NYY next season.

    Rooting for gaints now, they were 1st baseball game i ever watched when i went there a few years ago


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    After NYY and Phils were the obvious favourites and the strongest 2 teams in the majors on paper (few arguments I reckon), I think it's awesome that it's the form teams in the final. Rangers and Giants have played the best baseball this postseason, and are worthy finalists.

    Bit of an odd move having Lincecum pitch relief tonight I thought, and he gave up 2 hits and only got 1 out. Still, expect him to pitch Wednesday, against Lee. Mouth-watering!

    But man that was an intense game. A few buddies of mine were at the game and are lost for words. Gotta feel for the Phillies at least on a personal level, but as a neutral, Giants are worthy of their pennant. Time for bed. I think I'm still shaking after that 9th inning...one of the most intense moments in sport this year. That final at-bat! Man! Awesome stuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Another incorrect prediction on my part that I'm happy to have gotten wrong!

    Both my nemesis teams, Yankees and Phillies out now! Roll on Wednesday


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Firehen


    It'll be a first World Series victory for San Francisco or Dallas/Arlington. Exciting times.

    I reckon if the Giants bats can get enough hits in clutch situations, they'll win rather comfortably. I'd love to see a close series, however. The last 4 years or so the world series has been rather dull.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    Cano was pretty excellent for most of the postseason but other than that, you're right, they never played. They're going to have a fascinating offseason. Phil Hughes is a good no. 4 guy on a championship team but no way is he no. 2. They'll want either Lee or Greinke and, being the Yankees, they'll get them too. They need to look at DH too, with Nick Johnson unlikely to return. Thames is nothing more than a platoon guy.

    Kinda hope the Rangers win now, especially after seeing the Giants fans cheer Bonds last week (I know they're going to do it anyway, but whatever, I don't have to like it), even if it means cheering for the same team as Dubya.

    Big loss for the Phils, too, by the way. This was a great opportunity for them to win a second series and justify the Halladay trade, the Howard contract (to a very small extent with the latter) but they blew it, against a mediocre (by World Series standards) Giants team. I hope Ruben Amaro enjoys watching Cliff Lee pitch in the World Series.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    . I hope Ruben Amaro enjoys watching Cliff Lee pitch in the World Series.

    There's always going to be 'what ifs' and 'if onlys' at the end of a season but the trading Lee to get Halladay question is going to be the big issue in Philadelphia this off-season


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    There's always going to be 'what ifs' and 'if onlys' at the end of a season but the trading Lee to get Halladay question is going to be the big issue in Philadelphia this off-season
    Yeah there are, but in this case, the issue is simply "why?". There was no reason to make that trade. They gave up a lot for no discernible benefit. They had just watched Lee dominate in the postseason. They couldn't have had questions about his ability. They'll still be in next year, but they could have Kyle Drabek coming up next year too and they don't.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Firehen


    There's always going to be 'what ifs' and 'if onlys' at the end of a season but the trading Lee to get Halladay question is going to be the big issue in Philadelphia this off-season

    After the season Halladay has had, I think Amaro can be justified in his decision.

    Sure, Lee has been dominant in the postseason, but he struggled initially after his trade to Texas whereas Doc was consistent for the entire season with the occasional moment of brilliance.

    I'm no Philly fan, but I am a fan of Roy Halladay and I really hope he wins the Cy to recognise a great year in a new league.


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭theoldalfer


    Yeah there are, but in this case, the issue is simply "why?". There was no reason to make that trade. They gave up a lot for no discernible benefit. They had just watched Lee dominate in the postseason. They couldn't have had questions about his ability. They'll still be in next year, but they could have Kyle Drabek coming up next year too and they don't.

    ah come on! 21 wins regular season, a perfect game, one walk away from an other in the playoff's. I don't think they gave up anything with Doc. look it could have went either way, the Phillies lost 3 of those games by 1 run. The team didn't bat well. Most of the team are signed up for next year apart from Jayson Werth so roll on 2011.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Jesus christ guys, the Phillies lost because they couldn't find their bats, not because of a pitching trade. No RBI's for Howard in the postseason? 1 HR for Utley all postseason, none in the NLCS? Massive slump for Jimmy Rollins contributing very little? Ibanez?

    The spine of the past 2 world series teams is still there, but apart from Jayson Werth at times, they didn't support their pitchers.

    You can go on and on all you like about Halladay for Lee and the Phillies pitching staff but whoever was on the mound wouldn't matter without bat support. Make no mistake, the Phillies are not absent from the WS because of their pitching staff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    Howard hit over 300 in the postseason so his lack of RBIs was more likely down to people not getting on ahead of him. As for the spine of the last two WS teams still being there... Eh, Rollins is a shadow of his former self, Howard is already starting to decline, Werth is gone, Ibanez is nearing uselessness, Victorino is so-so. Only Utley can be reasonably said to still be in his prime. They have Dom Brown to come in, sure, but he'll be a rookie next year and there are no guarantees he is ever good enough to replace Werth.

    There is no way the Halladay trade can be justified. Lee struggled for three weeks with a bad back. That's it. He was incredible most of the season. A perfect game is lovely and all but it's still only one win. Lee put up historic K/BB numbers, in the AL too. You might argue that Halladay is better, but it's certainly not by much, and there's no way on his own he can provide more value than Drabek and Lee combined. That's before we mention Michael Taylor, who is weak enough but still, he should make the majors and that's not to be thrown away.

    They should still contend next year, mainly because they have Hamels, Halladay and Oswalt again but there's a bit chance the entire franchise is somewhere like where the Cubs are now in three/four years and the reality is that the Halladay trade will have have contributed towards that significantly. I'm all for winning now, when you've got the chance, but no one will ever convince me that having Halladay rather than Lee seriously improves your chances of winning.

    As for the Howard contract... It's mind-blowing, arguably as stupid as the A-Rod contract, and likely to seriously hurt the Phillies in years to come.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    Kyle Drabek is probably at worst a No. 3 starter. They don't grow on trees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    You might argue that Halladay is better, but it's certainly not by much, and there's no way on his own he can provide more value than Drabek and Lee combined. That's before we mention Michael Taylor, who is weak enough but still, he should make the majors and that's not to be thrown away.

    But it wasn't Halladay on his own, was it? You miss the point of the trade, Phillies sent 4 prospects to Cleveland to get Lee and needed to replenish the farm with top-level farm players. They even admitted they could have had both for a year but they hurt from losing the prospects and if they want to look long-term, they had to let Lee go.

    You should be arguing that Roy Halladay, JC Ramirez, Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and $6million cash cannot provide more value. Gillies in particular looks decent I think.

    That's before we go into the fact that Cliff Lee was never going to stick around too long, about to sign for his 5th franchise club since early last year in the off season. There's no way he would have signed an extension. Halladay's deal is for 4 full seasons (1 down) and an option on 2014.

    I'm not saying that it was an overwhelmingly positive trade, but it wasn't overly negative certainly. They still have the ace pitcher, they had lost 4 top prospects to get Lee, now they have a few more good ones, they will probably have him for longer, and yes, he's a better pitcher overall and in my opinion a marginly (still a pitcher at the end of the day) better batter too (his RBI in Game 1 of the NLDS was overshadowed by his no-no, but it was a very important hit in the game). And they got a couple mil cash too!

    As for your no 3 remark, I think Oswalt coming in for Happ strengthened the rotation anyway. I do agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on Howard's contract. Ludicrous!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    I'm all for winning now, when you've got the chance, but no one will ever convince me that having Halladay rather than Lee seriously improves your chances of winning.

    That's the thing, the trade was long-term. Seriously I lived in Philadelphia all off-season last year, it was definitely not about 'winning now'. If that was the plan, they would have kept Lee and signed Halladay anyway for money and prospects. A lot of fans were annoyed too at the time, but they said that if Halladay is as good as Lee then it's a good deal. Most people in the city I knew had never seen Roy pitch before the trade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭MickShamrock




  • Registered Users Posts: 43 tumbling_dice


    I don't any of the prospects they got are close to what they gave up. Gillies looked ok at A ball but he was hardly dominating and he struggled at AA this year, albeit in limited time. He's potentially ok, but is he even likely to be as good as Taylor, who isn't really even that good? I don't know that he is. The other two are 'pen fodder, at best, and probably not even that. So you're filling out your system, rather than stocking it.

    Drabek is right there, he's going to be in the Blue Jays rotation next year. The Phils could be sending out Lee, Oswalt, Hamels, Blanton and Drabek next year and still have Jamie Moyer knocking about for when someone feels nostalgic. Not that they have a bad rotation next year, I know, but still.

    Maybe Lee wouldn't sign an extension. We don't really know. I don't see why he wouldn't. He made it quite clear in the summer that he's sick of being bounced around and wanted to settle somewhere for a while. I find it hard to believe that the Phillies couldn't have locked him down for four years. I think Amaro genuinely thought Halladay was that much better.

    And, eh, he's not.

    Look, it's not the worst trade of all time. It's not the worst thing Amaro has done. But I still think it was a mistake.

    If I was a Phillies fan I'd hate Ruben Amaro Jnr. Hate him with passion. The man seems demented. He has no strategy. Or, at least, none that I can see.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    I think over the course of a season, Halladay is much better than Lee but for some reason Lee steps it up in the playoffs. To be fair, this was RH's first playoffs and he didn't do too badly either though so just think how good a tandem that would have been if they had them both.

    I know the hitting let them down against the Giants but the Pittsburgh Pirates line up would probably win if they had the trio of Halladay-Lee-Hamels pitching!

    Over the past 3 years they've won a World Series, an NL Pennant and got to the NLCS so the Phillies front office isn't doing too bad. Maybe their fans are just getting greedy!


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