Irish Language

jimgoose · 10-12-2019 9:23pm

buried wrote: »

But that's basic maths. That's enjoyable and everybody gets the basics of that at 8 years of age. I'm talking about the pythagoras clapped salmon fin theory of pi squared by 3.14 or whatever that wollox they were peddling in secondary school was. Fair enough, if you want to learn that mess, have at it, just leave the sane people out of it!

You're probably referring to the formulae for the diameter and area of a circle, and Pythagoras' Theorem. They're quite simple and I find them rather useful. YMMV.

buried · 10-12-2019 9:26pm

jimgoose wrote: »

You're probably referring to the formulae for the diameter and area of a circle, and Pythagoras' Theorem. They're quite simple and I find them rather useful. YMMV.

If I want a circle I just use a compass and a rule jim, but sure, whatever you're into you're into.

JohnnyFlash · 10-12-2019 9:30pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I'm not the one resorting to making baseless accusations of operating multiple accounts. Floundering.

It’s the last resort of the moron, Woke. Accusing accounts of being ran by the same person.

Woke Hogan · 10-12-2019 9:37pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s the last resort of the moron, Woke. Accusing accounts of being ran by the same person.

Like trying to veer a discussion about a language to the school curriculum, for some reason.

"Would you ever like to learn French?"

"Nah my French teacher was a bitch."

"That's hardly the language's fault."

"That ****in' bitch."

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-12-2019 9:38pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I'm not the one resorting to making baseless accusations of operating multiple accounts. Floundering.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s the last resort of the moron, Woke. Accusing accounts of being ran by the same person.

Baseless. Sure, sure.

whisky_galore · 10-12-2019 9:40pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Reviving any language relies primarily on teaching children how to speak it. Adults simply lack the capacity to learn languages to native-level quality, especially ones as phonetically different as Irish and English.

More excuses.

But happy to force it on kids who may or may not want to learn it.

JohnnyFlash · 10-12-2019 9:41pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Baseless. Sure, sure.

Listen, dude, it’s not my fault you didn’t like Irish as a school subject. I’m talking about the language here. You know the one that was spoken as the working language of the Irish people. The one that some folks believe should be consigned to the rubbish bin of history. The morons, the short-sighted populists, the internet dwelling losers.

Deiseen · 10-12-2019 9:43pm

Imagine a Government in Italy, Germany, Spain, France or even England, introducing a policy that would harm their native languages in any shape or form. There would be absolute uproar and murder. And rightly so!

Ours language might be down but if you ask anyone from those countries what is the single most important aspect of their culture above all else, they will tell you it is their language.

In Ireland however, we have people that want to abolish it and kill it off completely.

I'm sorry lads but you should be ashamed.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-12-2019 9:44pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Listen, dude, it’s not my fault you didn’t like Irish as a school subject. I’m talking about the language here. You know the one that was spoken as the working language of the Irish people. The one that some folks believe should be consigned to the rubbish bin of history. The morons, the short-sighted populists, the internet dwelling losers.

The lack of self-awareness. My word.

saabsaab · 10-12-2019 9:45pm

How do you feel about Irish? The thread seems to be going off topic.

gifted · 10-12-2019 9:49pm

My three daughters go to a gaelscoile......only reason i sent them was because I struggled very badly at school with irish, dreaded irish classes and failed the Irish in leaving cert.

Truth be known if I could put them into a Spanish speaking school I would....at least then they could use it abroad in numerous countries

Deiseen · 10-12-2019 9:50pm

gifted wrote: »

My three daughters go to a gaelscoile......only reason i sent them was because I struggled very badly at school with irish, dreaded irish classes and failed the Irish in leaving cert.

Truth be known if I could put them into a Spanish speaking school I would....at least then they could use it abroad in numerous countries

If they grow up Bilingual then learning Spanish in the future will be much much easier.

coffee_cake · 10-12-2019 9:52pm

Deiseen wrote: »

If they grow up Bilingual then learning Spanish in the future will be much much easier.

yeah it's a good start.

i like the language well enough but i had a teacher one year who loved it, so i think that got passed on. jaysus you'd wish it were taught better though.

is_that_so · 10-12-2019 9:53pm

Deiseen wrote: »

If they grow up Bilingual then learning Spanish in the future will be much much easier.

In theory, but exposure to two doesn't mean an innate gift. Not everyone has it but it will help.

Woke Hogan · 10-12-2019 10:00pm

saabsaab wrote: »

How do you feel about Irish? The thread seems to be going off topic.

I don’t speak it. In fact, until very recently I was totally ignorant about it until I had a chat with my son about the language.

He is fluent in English, Hebrew and Irish. He is also a firm believer that speaking multiple languages, regardless of their perceived “usefulness” (whatever that means) is always valuable.

Much like how a musician uses different instruments to play different songs, beings multilingual allows a person to be able to experience even internal thoughts through spectrums of expression totally unknowable to monolingual people.

His views made me realise that the Irish language doesn’t belong to the school curriculum or to the State. It’s not a drum to bang to show that we’re not English either. It’s just another way to express ourselves that we are happy to lose because we think monochrome is enough.

FunLover18 · 10-12-2019 10:07pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Imagine a Government in Italy, Germany, Spain, France or even England, introducing a policy that would harm their native languages in any shape or form. There would be absolute uproar and murder. And rightly so!

Ours language might be down but if you ask anyone from those countries what is the single most important aspect of their culture above all else, they will tell you it is their language.

In Ireland however, we have people that want to abolish it and kill it off completely.

I'm sorry lads but you should be ashamed.

The difference is that Italian, German, Spanish, and French are the native language of their respective countries. Irish is the native language in Ireland in name only. No disrespect intended, that's just fact. Something like 60% of the population never use the language upon leaving school. It simply doesn't have the same cultural resonance. I have nothing against the language itself but the idea I should have some romantic nostalgia for it is nonsense, if you do, fair play but you can't expect Irish people to feel the same way about Irish as Italians feel about Italian.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-12-2019 10:08pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I don’t speak it. In fact, until very recently I was totally ignorant about it until I had a chat with my son about the language.

He is fluent in English, Hebrew and Irish. He is also a firm believer that speaking multiple languages, regardless of their perceived “usefulness” (whatever that means) is always valuable.

Much like how a musician uses different instruments to play different songs, beings multilingual allows a person to be able to experience even internal thoughts through spectrums of expression totally unknowable to monolingual people.

His views made me realise that the Irish language doesn’t belong to the school curriculum or to the State. It’s not a drum to bang to show that we’re not English either. It’s just another way to express ourselves that we are happy to lose because we think monochrome is enough.

Seems you've drifted from accusing people of "post-colonilaist self-hatred" to it "not being a drum to show we're not English".

I'd agree with you on pretty much everything else, but there are numerous ways to express oneself, even if you're monolingual. First thing to be sorted out is who is expressing themselves and what they are actually expressing.

Then you an move on to the actual medium used.

saabsaab · 10-12-2019 10:13pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

The difference is that Italian, German, Spanish, and French are the native language of their respective countries. Irish is the native language in Ireland in name only. No disrespect intended, that's just fact. Something like 60% of the population never use the language upon leaving school. It simply doesn't have the same cultural resonance. I have nothing against the language itself but the idea I should have some romantic nostalgia for it is nonsense, if you do, fair play but you can't expect Irish people to feel the same way about Irish as Italians feel about Italian.

I suppose that the poll will indicate how Irish people feel about this.

Woke Hogan · 10-12-2019 10:13pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Seems you've drifted from accusing people of "post-colonilaist self-hatred" to it "not being a drum to show we're not English".

I'd agree with you on pretty much everything else, but there are numerous ways to express oneself, even if you're monolingual. First thing to be sorted out is who is expressing themselves and what they are actually expressing.

Then you an move on to the actual medium used.

Those two quotes aren’t contradictory if you actually spend any time thinking about them.

As for the rest of your post, I have no idea. Put it back in the oven, it’s not finished baking.

Upforthematch · 10-12-2019 10:23pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

The difference is that Italian, German, Spanish, and French are the native language of their respective countries. Irish is the native language in Ireland in name only. No disrespect intended, that's just fact. Something like 60% of the population never use the language upon leaving school. It simply doesn't have the same cultural resonance. I have nothing against the language itself but the idea I should have some romantic nostalgia for it is nonsense, if you do, fair play but you can't expect Irish people to feel the same way about Irish as Italians feel about Italian.

I think a lot of irish do feel the same way about irish as Italians feel about Italian. Look at the census results with all those "fluent" irish speakers. The fact that a lot of people who dont use irish from one end of the year to the other still feel this strong about it says a lot to me.

I like Irish. Always keep an eye out for irish tv and music and looking for opportunities to use it.

10-12-2019 10:57pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A perfect illustration of why Irish is dying and why constructive debate is impossible. My thanks.

I pitched it at a level that I knew you'd be comfortable with. It is abundantly clear that your mind is firmly made up, hence debating the topic with you would be akin to running headfirst into a Sherman tank and expecting it to budge.

is_that_so · 10-12-2019 11:01pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A perfect illustration of why Irish is dying and why constructive debate is impossible. My thanks.

Constructive debate is possible, solutions are quite another thing.

Junkyard Tom · 10-12-2019 11:06pm

We need to take care of our culture now more than ever before with the ubiquity of mass media.

Darknight77 · 10-12-2019 11:17pm

Should be restored as the main used language of the state. In order to do this all primary schooling would have to be taught compulsorily through Irish so that verbs and tenses would come naturally and not from a book. In this way you’d have fairly good fluency for secondary school. I am a little prejudiced in this way as I went to a Gaeltacht primary school and have a degree in Irish. My one regret is not going to an all Irish secondary school. I have to admit my English suffered honours grade d in junior cert and honours grade c for leaving.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-12-2019 11:28pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Those two quotes aren’t contradictory if you actually spend any time thinking about them.

As for the rest of your post, I have no idea. Put it back in the oven, it’s not finished baking.

Yes, they are: you're saying it's a form of differentiating ourselves from post-colonial rule and then saying we shouldn't be using it to do that (unless, by post-colonial, you mean something other than British?)

The rest of the post is fairly simple: self-expression relies on a knowledge of the self. What you're arguing is national identity - which is fine if the individual feels a deep connnection with their nationality. But that's not always the case, nor should it be.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-12-2019 11:34pm

Darknight77 wrote: »

Should be restored as the main used language of the state. In order to do this all primary schooling would have to be taught compulsorily through Irish so that verbs and tenses would come naturally and not from a book. In this way you’d have fairly good fluency for secondary school. I am a little prejudiced in this way as I went to a Gaeltacht primary school and have a degree in Irish. My one regret is not going to an all Irish secondary school. I have to admit my English suffered honours grade d in junior cert and honours grade c for leaving.

Terrible idea - there isn't the will among the parents and from what I'm told (open to correction) there aren't enough teachers speaking good enough Irish.

And that's before we get to the issue of hijacking education...

EmmetSpiceland · 10-12-2019 11:41pm

saabsaab wrote: »

I suppose that the poll will indicate how Irish people feel about this.

I wouldn’t put too much faith in a poll on this site, a lot of the users here seem like the type that would put more stock in learning “Klingon” or having passable “Dothraki” than they would in reviving the Irish language.

FunLover18 · 10-12-2019 11:42pm

Upforthematch wrote: »

I think a lot of irish do feel the same way about irish as Italians feel about Italian. Look at the census results with all those "fluent" irish speakers. The fact that a lot of people who dont use irish from one end of the year to the other still feel this strong about it says a lot to me.

I like Irish. Always keep an eye out for irish tv and music and looking for opportunities to use it.

I never said Irish people do or don't feel that way, I said you can't expect them to feel that way because Irish simply doesn't play the same role in Irish culture and society as Italian does in Italy, they're not comparable. People do feel that way and they're entitled to but there's an expectation amongst some that all Irish people should feel that way and if they don't they're "west Brit" or "should be ashamed" and it seems to be only happen with the Irish language.

Imreoir2 · 11-12-2019 12:11am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Poll options are ridiculous.

Make it optional. Support independent initiatives to promote it. Learn from Wales where Welsh is still widely spoken. Stand up to the Gaelgoirs who've been bleeding it for nearly a century.

Making it optional (preumably in schools?) would not be learning from Wales as Welsh is not an optional subject in their education system.

Personally I would like if Irish were optional in other aspects of life, like when dealing with the vast majority of the public service, never mind the private sector, I don't usually have the option to use Irish. That should change.

Imreoir2 · 11-12-2019 12:18am

Mohammed Thoughtless Gasoline wrote: »

I think you'll find that people don't hate the language itself — they hate the idea that every child should be forced to endure 13 years' compulsory education in it.

I think you'll find that most people don't actually hate that idea at all. Very few people actually hate the idea of compulsory Irish in schools. Some people on balance would prefer if Irish were optional, most support keeping it as a core subject, but very few actually have a strong negative emotional reaction to the idea of Irish remaining as a compulsory subject.

Irish Language

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