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Anti-vaxxers

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Comments

  • #4352
    hcf500
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭hcf500


    paul71 wrote: »
    refusal to answer direct questions asking for links to credible science sources

    Where did I do that?


  • #4353
    hcf500
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭hcf500


    Strange that so many accusations are made against me but when asked to point out specifics, the accusers disappear!


  • #4354
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    hcf500 wrote: »
    This conversation has gone off the rails. There are posters wanting to lock people up for posting online and more wanting to kick doors down to forcibly vaccinate children!

    No need to play the victim while stirring the pot, your stance is very transparent.

    People are just pissed off with anti-vaxxers and their nonsense, it's literally costing lives.

    Holocaust denial is just straight up banned or quarantined on many history forums now, I wouldn't be surprised in future to see anti-vax "debates" going the same way.


  • #4355
    hcf500
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭hcf500


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No need to play the victim while stirring the pot, your stance is very transparent.

    Still nothing specific! I could say you are being very transparent. How could you defend yourself against that claim when you don't have any specifics?


  • #4356
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    hcf500 wrote: »
    Still nothing specific! I could say you are being very transparent. How could you defend yourself against that claim when you don't have any specifics?

    It's the constant contrarian view. "I know vaccines are generally safe but .. [insert demand for explanation on X situation]". It gets a bit tiring after awhile.

    If you have some specific issue with one specific vaccine - and are so burning for explanations or details, just go to any medical or medical science forum, I'm sure you'll find your answers there


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  • #4357
    moonage
    Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭moonage


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Holocaust denial is just straight up banned or quarantined on many history forums now, I wouldn't be surprised in future to see anti-vax "debates" going the same way.

    It's telling when discussion of a topic is stifled and books on it are banned.

    Could it be that there is valuable information that the censors of free speech would like to suppress?


  • #4358
    CosmicFool
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    moonage wrote: »
    It's telling when discussion of a topic is stifled and books on it are banned.

    Could it be that there is valuable information that the censors of free speech would like to suppress?

    No. It's just pure bull**** and damaging so they have no choice but to Ban them because of idiots


  • #4359
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    moonage wrote: »
    It's telling when discussion of a topic is stifled and books on it are banned.

    Could it be that there is valuable information that the censors of free speech would like to suppress?

    If I recall correctly you are a holocaust denier/revisionist who has been carded here

    Certain subjects (911, holocaust revisionism) just get outright banned on respective forums because mods get sick of dealing with them. The arguments for them as based on fantasy and a complete lack of logic, therefore users promoting them don't adhere to logical arguments or debate and the whole thing often turns into a cesspit pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if anti-vax currently receives similar treatment or will in the future


  • #4360
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    People are just pissed off with anti-vaxxers and their nonsense, it's literally costing lives.

    I could say the same about poor vaccination products and practise.

    But no, the debate is toxic because people assume absolute positions on both sides. This is not a black and white issue.

    I've no problem with the science of vaccination, but I've a HUGE problem with quality control and use of neuro-toxic preservatives in the production of modern vaccines and the increasing introduction of new products onto the baby/infant schedule from the early 1970's as if the immune system in the young is an indefatigable resource to have more and more and more products heaped upon.

    BOTH sides of the argument need to look at the schedule as it was in the 1970's vs where it is now. Really. Do the homework before you virtue signal as there's SCANT research into effects of the modern schedule in-toto.

    What I have observed is that for most on both sides, this is just a keyboard warrior zero-sum game to be played out on social media. Well kudos to you. I'm sure you sleep better at night knowing that you took a superior debating position on the Internet.

    Some of us have real skin in the game and can't afford to play games on social media as we have actual, real and damaged children to care for.

    Your efforts on the net only decrease the signal to noise ratio and prevent a respectful, mature and learned debate from ever taking place.


  • #4361
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,914 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    I could say the same about poor vaccination products and practise.

    But no, the debate is toxic because people assume absolute positions on both sides. This is not a black and white issue.
    So... do present your evidence. Thanks.

    I've no problem with the science of vaccination, but I've a HUGE problem with quality control and use of neuro-toxic preservatives in the production of modern vaccines and the increasing introduction of new products onto the baby/infant schedule from the early 1970's as if the immune system in the young is an indefatigable resource to have more and more and more products heaped upon.
    Which of the preservatives are 'neuro-toxic?' And, your feelings don't matter, don't really care what you have problems with. Data not anecdotes. Reliable links, too (no anti-vax sites).
    BOTH sides of the argument need to look at the schedule as it was in the 1970's vs where it is now. Really. Do the homework before you virtue signal as there's SCANT research into effects of the modern schedule in-toto.

    What I have observed is that for most on both sides, this is just a keyboard warrior zero-sum game to be played out on social media. Well kudos to you. I'm sure you sleep better at night knowing that you took a superior debating position on the Internet.
    . So, again, lets have your facts and we can discuss.
    Some of us have real skin in the game and can't afford to play games on social media as we have actual, real and damaged children to care for.
    That hardly matters as well, if you want to discuss facts, bring them on.
    Your efforts on the net only decrease the signal to noise ratio and prevent a respectful, mature and learned debate from ever taking place.


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  • #4362
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    I've a HUGE problem with quality control and use of neuro-toxic preservatives in the production of modern vaccines and the increasing introduction of new products onto the baby/infant schedule from the early 1970's as if the immune system in the young is an indefatigable resource to have more and more and more products heaped upon.

    Not a general issue, and it's your perceived view

    You are correct, it isn't a purely black and white issue, but it's a 99.999% black and 0.001% white issue, that's important to note


  • #4363
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ah, the old "both sides" canard.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4364
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    I could say the same about poor vaccination products and practise.

    But no, the debate is toxic because people assume absolute positions on both sides. This is not a black and white issue.

    I've no problem with the science of vaccination, but I've a HUGE problem with quality control and use of neuro-toxic preservatives in the production of modern vaccines and the increasing introduction of new products onto the baby/infant schedule from the early 1970's as if the immune system in the young is an indefatigable resource to have more and more and more products heaped upon.

    BOTH sides of the argument need to look at the schedule as it was in the 1970's vs where it is now. Really. Do the homework before you virtue signal as there's SCANT research into effects of the modern schedule in-toto.

    What I have observed is that for most on both sides, this is just a keyboard warrior zero-sum game to be played out on social media. Well kudos to you. I'm sure you sleep better at night knowing that you took a superior debating position on the Internet.

    Some of us have real skin in the game and can't afford to play games on social media as we have actual, real and damaged children to care for.

    Your efforts on the net only decrease the signal to noise ratio and prevent a respectful, mature and learned debate from ever taking place.

    DublinWriter, some of us are coming at this topic with more than a dilettante-level of knowledge on the topic. Relevant scientific qualifications - not that rare.


  • #4365
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Mumps are the new example of a high incident rate among that cohort that would have been at the vaccination age when Andrew Wakefield was spreading his compost.


  • #4366
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    does mumps make you sterile? or is that measles?


  • #4367
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    fryup wrote: »
    does mumps make you sterile? or is that measles?

    Both can but it's rare as far as I know.


  • #4368
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭mountai


    Data released by Cancer Research UK during cervical cancer prevention week found headway on tackling the deadly disease has been “stalling and stagnating” and the dearth of progress has been going on for a decade.

    Among 25- to 29-year-olds, there has been a 54 per cent rise in cervical cancer rates.

    Whttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cervical-cancer-screening-hpv-vaccination-young-women-a9295291.html?fbclid=IwAR3UMucEM7N3Yb9e-o-wQV6OYieXymxBe8MXQrv-dOkXXqTtnabER981f7 Well now , doesnt THAT bate Bannagher ..


  • #4369
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭jh79


    Looks like there has been a fall off in screening rates but cervical cancer rates should reduce once the benefits of the vaccine program are realized.

    Here's a link to the original press release.

    https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-us/cancer-news/press-release/2020-01-22-cervical-cancer-progress-falters-as-screening-uptake-hits-record-lows


  • #4370
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭mountai


    esearchers at Newcastle University and Queen Mary University of London discovered the trials were not designed to identify cervical cancer, which takes decades to develop.

    Dr Claire Rees, lead researcher, said: “Trials may have overestimated efficacy by combining high-grade cervical disease with low-grade cervical changes that occur more frequently but often resolve spontaneously without progressing. We found insufficient data to clearly conclude that HPV vaccine prevents the higher-grade abnormal cell changes that can eventually develop into cervical cancer.

    “Abnormal cell changes are likely to have been over diagnosed in the trials because cervical cytology was conducted at six to 12 months rather than at the normal screening interval of 36 months. This, too, means that the trials may have overestimated the efficacy of the vaccine, again because some of the lesions would have regressed spontaneously.”

    The last sentence should be especially noted . I suppose these researchers will be vilified , as they dont CONFORM .


  • #4371
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,914 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    mountai wrote: »
    Researchers at Newcastle University and Queen Mary University of London discovered the trials were not designed to identify cervical cancer, which takes decades to develop.
    Cherry picking it seems. Here's more of a quote from an article mentioning this study - which was a literature review, after all, and not any kind of actual study:

    "Responding to the JRSM study, PHE senior scientist Marta Checchi said: 'Data from the UK suggests that there has been a decline in five high-risk HPV types that cause around 90% of cervical cancer cases. This means that the vaccine programme is on target to dramatically reduce the number of women being diagnosed with high-grade cervical abnormalities and cervical cancer in the future.'"

    https://www.gponline.com/hpv-infections-drop-sharply-experts-warn-vaccination-may-not-stop-cervical-cancer/cancer/article/1671501


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  • #4372
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    mountai wrote: »
    The last sentence should be especially noted . I suppose these researchers will be vilified , as they dont CONFORM .

    It's daft comments like this which indicate that you clearly couldn't care less about kids health to be honest. Just in case you're wondering why so many people believe that anti-vaxxers are so insincere.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4373
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭mountai


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    It's daft comments like this which indicate that you clearly couldn't care less about kids health to be honest. Just in case you're wondering why so many people believe that anti-vaxxers are so insincere.

    So you assume Im an antivaxxer . You might wish to know I support all vaccinations EXCEPT HPV . All my children received their vaccinations but having witnessed my Grandaughters chronic adverse reaction to the HPV , I have come to that conclusion . What is worse however , is the abuse and total denial that is directed at Parents that KNOW their children have suffered . The truth will out , eventually , it always does .


  • #4374
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    mountai wrote: »
    So you assume Im an antivaxxer . You might wish to know I support all vaccinations EXCEPT HPV . All my children received their vaccinations but having witnessed my Grandaughters chronic adverse reaction to the HPV , I have come to that conclusion . What is worse however , is the abuse and total denial that is directed at Parents that KNOW their children have suffered . The truth will out , eventually , it always does .

    I'm not buying it, I'm afraid. The pretence at moderation has been done to death and is belied by lines like "The truth will out". The weird use of BLOCK CAPITALS and odd spacing don't help either.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4375
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭mountai


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I'm not buying it, I'm afraid. The pretence at moderation has been done to death and is belied by lines like "The truth will out". The weird use of BLOCK CAPITALS and odd spacing don't help either.

    And I could give a toss whether you buy it or not??


  • #4376
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    mountai wrote: »
    And I could give a toss whether you buy it or not??

    Why else are you responding to my posts?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4377
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭mountai


    The legions of the Right Brigade have been summoned I see , time to go now before they convulse on their own Bile .


  • #4378
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    mountai wrote: »
    So you assume Im an antivaxxer . You might wish to know I support all vaccinations EXCEPT HPV . All my children received their vaccinations but having witnessed my Grandaughters chronic adverse reaction to the HPV , I have come to that conclusion . What is worse however , is the abuse and total denial that is directed at Parents that KNOW their children have suffered . The truth will out , eventually , it always does .
    What was the he reaction?


  • #4379
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    mountai wrote: »
    The legions of the Right Brigade have been summoned I see , time to go now before they convulse on their own Bile .

    What?


  • #4380
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭mountai


    CramCycle wrote: »
    What was the he reaction?

    Im assuming you have a genuine interest so ,

    Immediate and severe convulsions ( ambulance called by school) . Ongoing severe joint pain , chronic fatigue , convulsions , cluster of "Possible Side Effects" , as listed on the product PIL , which was deliberately witheld by the HSE . A recent hospitalisation during which she spent two days in Intensive Care ( at Doctors direction) was sent home and her Mother was requested to " Please inform us when you find out what her problem is " . You couldnt make this S**t up .


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  • #4381
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭paul71


    mountai wrote: »
    The legions of the Right Brigade have been summoned I see , time to go now before they convulse on their own Bile .

    Challenged, debunked disappears. Bye bye.


This discussion has been closed.
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