Septic tank registration

gears · 20-09-2011 11:36am #1

As the "proud" owner of a septic tank I'm wondering about the purpose of the registration scheme. Are all tanks going to be inspected and what happens if your system doesn't comply with current regs, which I imagine many wouldnt, will you be forced to get a new one. I'm begining to get a bit worried about this as if my system doesnt comply I can't see an easy way of putting in a new one with out it being extremly costly due to the layout of my site. I do know it's not law yet but will be soon so is any one else concerned about this or have more information on this registration.

Supertech · 20-09-2011 12:33pm

All very vague at the moment gears. What is certain is that there is some form of inspection coming down the line. Saw a newspaper report on Saturday which suggested a nominal initial charge followed (at some stage) by an official inspection.The idea being that the nominal charge would fund initial inspection by council staff. According to all reports the onus wil be on tank owners to upgrade systems to current standards. Its all based on an ECJ ruling imposing fines against Ireland for water pollution which dates back 30 years.

gears · 20-09-2011 1:02pm

We can probably assume that if the owner doesn't upgrade their system, whether they can afford it or not, they can face fines or prosssecution of some kind. Which in this climate seems very unfair. I know for myself that to change what I have, as I imagine it wouldn't meet current regs, would be very expensive if not impossible as I have a sloping site with the system at the back of the house at the bottom of the slope. Also there would literally be no room to put a new one in at the back and you can't really put one at the front as any out flow would flow down hill towards the house and with developments or roads on all 4 sides it couldn't be discharged elsewhere. I really don't know.

mickdw · 20-09-2011 3:35pm

I feel if peoples tanks are constructed to the regs in force at the time of construction, the governement will find it impossible to insist on an improvement scheme without full grant aid.

gears · 20-09-2011 4:05pm

I like that kind of thinking and it makes sense considering the amount of insulation upgrade going on. But with the purse strings being so tight would they really be losened for something like this

martinn123 · 20-09-2011 4:23pm

mickdw wrote: »

I feel if peoples tanks are constructed to the regs in force at the time of construction, the governement will find it impossible to insist on an improvement scheme without full grant aid.

I think you are missing the point, slightly. As I understand it the inspections are to insure Tanks are working correctly, and not causing pollution, to the land/ water etc.

So irrespective of the Reg's when the Tank was installed, if its not working correctly it will have to be upgraded.

Grant Aid, in my view is unlikely, as its up to the home-owner, not to cause pollution. I agree with the economy in meltdown its not a good time for many but these Inspections are being driven from Europe, as part of an attempt to clean up the countryside, and water sources.

mickdw · 20-09-2011 5:37pm

martinn123 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point, slightly. As I understand it the inspections are to insure Tanks are working correctly, and not causing pollution, to the land/ water etc.

So irrespective of the Reg's when the Tank was installed, if its not working correctly it will have to be upgraded.

Grant Aid, in my view is unlikely, as its up to the home-owner, not to cause pollution. I agree with the economy in meltdown its not a good time for many but these Inspections are being driven from Europe, as part of an attempt to clean up the countryside, and water sources.

I agree 100% in that if the thing is not working as its supposed too, then the homeowner is liable.
My point was that if someone installed a septic tank in the mid 90s for example and did so in accordance with Planning and in accordance with Sr6:1991, IMO there is no way they could be required to ungrade now if that tank and percolation is performing to that standard even if the powers that be now regard it to be unsuitable in that location and would rather a higher standard of treatment system in place due to groudwater issues or whatever. Grant aid would have to be provided in cases like this.
I dont doubt that the majority will be found to be of substandard design/installation and will be the direct responsibility of the home owner to put right.

John mac · 20-09-2011 6:00pm

I think buckets will have to be used, bring them into local town and throw down sewer.

Poor Uncle Tom · 20-09-2011 6:59pm

There's nothing solid yet....:p

Lets wait and see what they attempt to bring in before we speculate.

John mac · 20-09-2011 9:01pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

There's nothing solid yet....:p

.

the top layer of my septic tank

:D:D
but yea no point in speculation ..

mirror mirror · 24-09-2011 12:16pm

were all septic tanks not "registered" when the owner was granted . planning permission for house and septic tank ? F??k you phil hogan .Inspect the faulty water mains and get those repaired/replaced ,get the rural roads up to standard never mind screwing some of the population AGAIN.The over the top planning application fees were enough .I paid 2500 pounds to the council for my planning fees,which it says was going to street lighting ,footpaths ,road maintenance even though I live 5 mile from nearest village. We paid 4 thousand pounds for septic tank +installation+percolation as set out by council.We got our own well bored at a cost of 2000 pounds because the water supply was/is pathetic..rant over thank you..oooh i forgot f///k u phil hogan:mad:

muffler · 24-09-2011 4:25pm

mirror mirror wrote: »

were all septic tanks not "registered" when the owner was granted . planning permission for house and septic tank ? F??k you phil hogan .Inspect the faulty water mains and get those repaired/replaced ,get the rural roads up to standard never mind screwing some of the population AGAIN.The over the top planning application fees were enough .I paid 2500 pounds to the council for my planning fees,which it says was going to street lighting ,footpaths ,road maintenance even though I live 5 mile from nearest village. We paid 4 thousand pounds for septic tank +installation+percolation as set out by council.We got our own well bored at a cost of 2000 pounds because the water supply was/is pathetic..rant over thank you..oooh i forgot f///k u phil hogan:mad:

The ranting & raving forum is that way

>

Please stick to the topic.

mirror mirror · 24-09-2011 4:34pm

muffler wrote: »

The ranting & raving forum is that way
>

Please stick to the topic.

Topic as in "septic tanks",,,,,,,,,some smell of sh??e here boy

Poor Uncle Tom · 24-09-2011 4:43pm

mirror mirror wrote: »

Topic as in "septic tanks",,,,,,,,,some smell of sh??e here boy

Infraction given.

bbam · 24-09-2011 5:14pm

Does anyone know exactly ow this inspection is done...
What is the method used to decide if the tank/percolation is working or not ??

So if my tank is working (not overfilling), and there is no sign of the discharge anywhere what further tests can be done...
I'm thinking of the occupiers of our last house.. The garden is 3/4 acre and they have no idea at all where the percolation area is, how would a tester know what /where to look for ?? the site isn't bordered by a stream/drain so there is nowhere to check for dischasrge into the water table??

Poor Uncle Tom · 24-09-2011 5:21pm

bbam wrote: »

Does anyone know exactly ow this inspection is done...
What is the method used to decide if the tank/percolation is working or not ??

So if my tank is working (not overfilling), and there is no sign of the discharge anywhere what further tests can be done...
I'm thinking of the occupiers of our last house.. The garden is 3/4 acre and they have no idea at all where the percolation area is, how would a tester know what /where to look for ?? the site isn't bordered by a stream/drain so there is nowhere to check for dischasrge into the water table??

There's a problem there straight away. You can use the distribution box and the vent pipes to locate the percolation area. If there are non present the system is deficient and should be rectified.

The first check is a visual one to make sure all the necessary manholes, inspection chambers and vent pipes are in place, if they are not that needs to be sorted first.

bbam · 24-09-2011 5:30pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

The first check is a visual one to make sure all the necessary manholes, inspection chambers and vent pipes are in place, if they are not that needs to be sorted first.

Ouch.. no inspection chamber between the tank and the percolation....

But if there is no sign of percolation problems on the site would that not indicate that everything is good ?? I mean what test can really be done other than an inspection?

Also.. whas this always in the spec for septic tanks?? I know of quite a few which don't have that.

Another point... My mother who lives on her widows pension.. Her system is >35 years old, while it works it's not quite "perfect"... SHe hasn't the resources to fit a new system or repair her existing one? I can't see that much can be expected of her without financial support from the state..

Poor Uncle Tom · 24-09-2011 8:21pm

bbam wrote: »

Ouch.. no inspection chamber between the tank and the percolation....

Right, what I look for on a superficial inspection is that there is a manhole at the house aiming towards the septic tank, that there is a manhole before the septic tank and a manhole every 18m in between (if necessary). I check that the ST is chambered and has a Tee piece on the inlet and outlet pipes. I check that the scum is in the first chamber only and visable liquids in the second chamber only. There should be a distribution box/inspection chamber after the tank and a vent pipe or multiple vent pipes at the end on the percolation area. At the house itself I check GT's, AJ's and vent pipes and also that there is a SVP at the top of the line.

bbam wrote: »

But if there is no sign of percolation problems on the site would that not indicate that everything is good ?? I mean what test can really be done other than an inspection?

If you can't see the percolation area, what makes you think it is there? It could be a Soakpit, directing effluents directly into the watertable.

bbam wrote: »

Also.. whas this always in the spec for septic tanks?? I know of quite a few which don't have that.

No, the first SR6 came in in 1975, I think, before that the use of a soakaway was common. In fact even though a planning permission may have required a percolation area to be installed since 1975, very few LA's were actually insisting on it until the mid 1980's.

bbam wrote: »

Another point... My mother who lives on her widows pension.. Her system is >35 years old, while it works it's not quite "perfect"... SHe hasn't the resources to fit a new system or repair her existing one? I can't see that much can be expected of her without financial support from the state..

You see, It's my opinion that a person living alone on an old septic tank system should be left alone. The waste from a one person house should be degraded enough even using a soakaway system. I believe that if the LA's get their own houses in order first, so to speak, and bring the existing sewerage treatment systems up to requirements it would take 20 years alone.

It is my opinion that the worst offenders in this scenario are being tasked with inspecting and fining the vulnerable and easy targets while paying huge sums in fines to the EPA each year for polluting themselves. This is not speculation, I know it to be the case. I also think it is reprehensible that homeowners and the elderly are being targeted and frightened to such a degree, just to gather revenue into the coffers of the worst offenders.

Now I'm guilty of ranting myself so I'll stop.

maddragon · 24-09-2011 8:34pm

My septic tank is underneath a giant shrubbery. There is no way of lifting the manhole. We tried with the bucket of a mini digger and 3 men to no avail. We had to desludge it via the vent pipes. Fxxk u Phil Hogan.

muffler · 24-09-2011 10:00pm

bbam wrote: »

Does anyone know exactly ow this inspection is done...

I dont believe there are any details released yet.

Watch this space

No6 · 24-09-2011 10:59pm

I suspect that there will be very few inspections, they will just look for the money!!:eek:

redandwhite · 07-11-2011 1:51pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Right, what I look for on a superficial inspection is that there is a manhole at the house aiming towards the septic tank, that there is a manhole before the septic tank and a manhole every 18m in between (if necessary). I check that the ST is chambered and has a Tee piece on the inlet and outlet pipes. I check that the scum is in the first chamber only and visable liquids in the second chamber only. There should be a distribution box/inspection chamber after the tank and a vent pipe or multiple vent pipes at the end on the percolation area. At the house itself I check GT's, AJ's and vent pipes and also that there is a SVP at the top of the line.

If you can't see the percolation area, what makes you think it is there? It could be a Soakpit, directing effluents directly into the watertable.

No, the first SR6 came in in 1975, I think, before that the use of a soakaway was common. In fact even though a planning permission may have required a percolation area to be installed since 1975, very few LA's were actually insisting on it until the mid 1980's.

You see, It's my opinion that a person living alone on an old septic tank system should be left alone. The waste from a one person house should be degraded enough even using a soakaway system. I believe that if the LA's get their own houses in order first, so to speak, and bring the existing sewerage treatment systems up to requirements it would take 20 years alone.

It is my opinion that the worst offenders in this scenario are being tasked with inspecting and fining the vulnerable and easy targets while paying huge sums in fines to the EPA each year for polluting themselves. This is not speculation, I know it to be the case. I also think it is reprehensible that homeowners and the elderly are being targeted and frightened to such a degree, just to gather revenue into the coffers of the worst offenders.

Now I'm guilty of ranting myself so I'll stop.

Can I ask what you do? Will you be involved in inspections? Just wondering if anyone knows the current situation.

Poor Uncle Tom · 07-11-2011 2:51pm

redandwhite wrote: »

Can I ask what you do? Will you be involved in inspections? Just wondering if anyone knows the current situation.

I am an Architectural Technician, I currently inspect any job I am involved with.

As Muffler said above, there is nothing fialised on this yet.

Kashkai · 07-11-2011 6:08pm

I used to work in the water services sector and I know for a fact that (some) local authority wastewater plants are the biggest polluters of our rivers. Seems a bit rich to be going after the individual septic tank owners when they contribute just a fraction of the pollution of the wastewater plants. This clean up of our groundwater should start from the top down (i.e. biggest polluters first) but there's no money to be made in doing it this way I suppose:rolleyes:

I inherited a Bord Na Mona Puraflow system and its given me nothing but grief and costs a small fortune to maintain. I have the tank emptied every twelve months (€200), have had to replace the pump twice (€450 x 2), had to get a minidigger in when the inlet pipe collapsed, which had to be replaced and the ground under backfilled (€300), had to get the soil around the mound dug out and replaced with fresh soil as the old soil was clogged with oils and greases. The Bord Na Mona maintenance guy said that this system shouldn't have been put into areas with heavy soil like mine as they simply don't work. I would have thought that they would have known what the local soil conditions are like as the Puraflow manufacturers are located just 4 miles from me in Coill Dubh, Co. Kildare.

This septic tank tax is a joke, just another smash and grab on our wallets. I would have no problem with an inspection though as I do look after my system (even if it costs a fecking fortune) but the cost of the inspection should be zero if you can produce a certificate that your tank has been emptied by a registered contractor who will cart the waste off to the nearest treatment works. This would eliminate the practice of spreading septic tank contents on agricultural land.

We rural dwellers are going to get hit harder than people connected to main sewers. While we all will be paying a local council tax (i.e. the household charge), we also have to pay to get our septic tanks emptied and maintained and now we'll also have this inspection charge to contend with.:mad:

redandwhite · 08-11-2011 1:24pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I am an Architectural Technician, I currently inspect any job I am involved with.

As Muffler said above, there is nothing fialised on this yet.

Cool, thanks for that. Just wondering if you could advise me on out situation. We brought our place about 6 years ago. Septic tank already there, installed around 15-20 years ago. Very basic system which seems to be a simple concrete tank with waste water flowing out into a soakaway area. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass any test. In addition the tank is only 5 metres from a stream which flows alongside our property. From what I have learned it should be at least 10 metres.
I know it's hard for you to comment but would you think we will have to replace the system completely and relocate it? If so what kind of costs are we looking at? Our engineers report from when we brought the house only made superficial reference to the tank and it's location so until now I wasn't aware there would be an issue.
Really appreciate if you had the time to reply, cheers.

Poor Uncle Tom · 08-11-2011 1:45pm

redandwhite wrote: »

Cool, thanks for that. Just wondering if you could advise me on out situation. We brought our place about 6 years ago. Septic tank already there, installed around 15-20 years ago. Very basic system which seems to be a simple concrete tank with waste water flowing out into a soakaway area. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass any test. In addition the tank is only 5 metres from a stream which flows alongside our property. From what I have learned it should be at least 10 metres.
I know it's hard for you to comment but would you think we will have to replace the system completely and relocate it? If so what kind of costs are we looking at? Our engineers report from when we brought the house only made superficial reference to the tank and it's location so until now I wasn't aware there would be an issue.
Really appreciate if you had the time to reply, cheers.

It's best not to jump the gun just yet. If the existing septic tank system was installed 15 - 20 years ago then it would have had planning permission, so it may not simply be a case of it being wrong full stop. Only an on-site assesment with tests would tell you if the system you have is acceptable or not. A site suitability test and report is likely to cost about €500.

However you are best to wait until you see what the legislation is going to be, there may even be a grant system for some people, we don't know yet. So please don't panic.

muffler · 08-11-2011 1:52pm

redandwhite wrote: »

Cool, thanks for that. Just wondering if you could advise me on out situation. We brought our place about 6 years ago. Septic tank already there, installed around 15-20 years ago. Very basic system which seems to be a simple concrete tank with waste water flowing out into a soakaway area. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass any test. In addition the tank is only 5 metres from a stream which flows alongside our property. From what I have learned it should be at least 10 metres.
I know it's hard for you to comment but would you think we will have to replace the system completely and relocate it? If so what kind of costs are we looking at? Our engineers report from when we brought the house only made superficial reference to the tank and it's location so until now I wasn't aware there would be an issue.
Really appreciate if you had the time to reply, cheers.

The big problem is the uncertainty of the scheme. Really and truly septic tanks are a thing of the past in most parts of the country. If you were proposing to build on that site today you would have to get a site assessment carried out (site suitability) in advance of a planning application to determine it's suitability for the treatment and disposal of sewage. Most likely a septic tank would be not be acceptable but there are areas yet where it's use may be approved.

There is a possibility that people whose septic tanks are not up to scratch will be asked to carry out either remedial work or complete replacement. If its replacement then there is every chance that a site assessment will be needed and the results of that will dictate the type of system to be installed. For example you could be asked to install something like a Puraflo system will set you back €4500 approx. On top of that could be the cost of the assessment and a planning application which could add another €1000 to the cost.

As I said earlier we dont know the details yet so my comments above are purely speculative although they could possibly end up being close enough to what may happen.

martinn123 · 08-11-2011 2:05pm

muffler wrote: »

There is a possibility that people whose septic tanks are not up to scratch will be asked to carry out either remedial work or complete replacement. If its replacement then there is every chance that a site assessment will be needed and the results of that will dictate the type of system to be installed. For example you could be asked to install something like a Puraflo system will set you back €4500 approx. On top of that could be the cost of the assessment and a planning application which could add another €1000 to the cost.

As I said earlier we dont know the details yet so my comments above are purely speculative although they could possibly end up being close enough to what may happen.

While I appreciate we are all speculating here, in the absence of hard facts, what you appear to suggest, is that having been instructed by LA to replace the system a Planning Application to the same LA at a cost of 1000. may be required, including the cost of a site assesment. Can't see that being a runner, massive incentive for the LA to condemn systems, to generate Planning Fees. ( Conspiracy Theory, and pure speculation on my part )

muffler · 08-11-2011 2:19pm

martinn123 wrote: »

what you appear to suggest, is that having been instructed by LA to replace the system a Planning Application to the same LA at a cost of 1000. may be required, including the cost of a site assesment.

I was neither suggesting or appearing to suggest anything but merely giving a very speculative and hypothetical reply to a question asked. But would you be surprised if that came to pass though?

martinn123 wrote: »

( Conspiracy Theory, and pure speculation on my part )

Ditto.

Just for the record I honestly have no idea of what lies in store. I haven't heard a thing through the proverbial grapevine so we are in the same position Noah was in when the lights went out

creedp · 08-11-2011 2:28pm

redandwhite wrote: »

Cool, thanks for that. Just wondering if you could advise me on out situation. We brought our place about 6 years ago. Septic tank already there, installed around 15-20 years ago. Very basic system which seems to be a simple concrete tank with waste water flowing out into a soakaway area. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass any test. In addition the tank is only 5 metres from a stream which flows alongside our property. From what I have learned it should be at least 10 metres.
I know it's hard for you to comment but would you think we will have to replace the system completely and relocate it? If so what kind of costs are we looking at? Our engineers report from when we brought the house only made superficial reference to the tank and it's location so until now I wasn't aware there would be an issue.
Really appreciate if you had the time to reply, cheers.

That will look great politically won't it ... rural dwellers removed from their homes and jailed because they refuse to upgrade their crap tanks ... A spokeperson for the Troika praised the Govt for screwing the citizens in order repay German banks ... I can see it now. Of course for us poor folk who have build recently we have already been screwed for the €4 - 5000k!!

redandwhite · 08-11-2011 2:37pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It's best not to jump the gun just yet. If the existing septic tank system was installed 15 - 20 years ago then it would have had planning permission, so it may not simply be a case of it being wrong full stop. Only an on-site assesment with tests would tell you if the system you have is acceptable or not. A site suitability test and report is likely to cost about €500.

However you are best to wait until you see what the legislation is going to be, there may even be a grant system for some people, we don't know yet. So please don't panic.

Cheers much appreciated. Just spent the last 5 years renovating so the last thing we need now is more outlay.

Septic tank registration

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