Unquiet graves RTE 1 tonight.....9.30pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if Flanagan is being influenced by a different state. Either that or his brain is pickled with post-colonialism.

I have no idea whether that is true or not, but I think he'd be happier in the party that seems to best represent his views, the DUP.

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah that’s it, it was simply Billy the cop giving Sammy the UVF man the odd nod and a wink. What you’re saying regards collusion goes directly against what the Stevens Report has to say by the way, even the Brits themselves are admitting it went on in a systemic manner (albeit redacting huge parts of his findings) and here’s you parroting the same b*llocks that was being said in the 1980s.

The UDA’s director of intelligence, a man responsible for plotting and facilitating attacks, was a British agent for f*ck’s sake. These groups actually imported weapons from South Africa with the full knowledge of the authorities.

As for the British Army acting as some sort of peacekeeping force, you’re ignoring the context in which the northern state was founded - a sectarian militarised colony in which violence was inbuilt. The British Army was deployed “in aid of the civil power” ie the Stormont government it had nothing to do with ‘protecting Catholics’ or any of that canard.

From 1972, the "civil power" was the British government itself. Direct rule brought repeal of Stormont laws that discriminated against Catholics.

I acknowledge there were high-level agents run by MI5, the FRU and RUC Special Branch inside Loyalist groups - and also inside the IRA. Therefore, Special Branch's and British intelligence's were not sectarian-motivated, in all fairness.

By the way, the Stevens Report isn't about the Glenanne Gang.

FTA69 wrote: »

Your politics are very transparent blanch. I can respect people who are anti Republican as long as they’re somewhat consistent but all you ever have to peddle is the same unimaginative, boring, post colonial cringeworthy nonsense that has been found in every colonised country from Ireland to Algeria to Vietnam. Perhaps the only difference is you dress up your fawning as political ‘maturity’ when in fact you’re on a thread about a 120 murdered civilians making every excuse in the book for it.

The same type of people a hundred years ago would have been down in the police barracks informing to the Black and Tans. It’s absolutely pathetic stuff to be honest.

He couldnt care less about the 120+ murdered civilians up north, sure only last week he was asked if he had information on who the loyalist terrorists were that planted the Dublin and Monaghan bombs and killed 33 Irish men and women would he bring that information to the Gardai and he ignored the question- he was asked the question a second time and went and ignored it again while continuing to post on the thread. So if he doesnt care less about 33 citizens murdered in Dublin and Monaghan he most certainly doesnt care about 120 up in the North. Thats the thing about partitionists like blanch, they couldnt care less for the victims of the Troubles.

political analyst wrote: »

From 1972, the "civil power" was the British government itself. Direct rule brought repeal of Stormont laws that discriminated against Catholics.

I acknowledge there were high-level agents run by MI5, the FRU and RUC Special Branch inside Loyalist groups - and also inside the IRA. Therefore, Special Branch's and British intelligence's were not sectarian-motivated, in all fairness.

By the way, the Stevens Report isn't about the Glenanne Gang.

1 - British troops were deployed in 1969 to bolster the Stormont regime and it was on the behest of that regime they enforced internment, including torturing some of the internees. That was the civil power. The British state then took direct control of their colony once they realised that Stormont could no longer steward the situation on their behalf.

2 - I don’t know why you keep trying to condense the matter into religion and Catholic v Protestant etc. My issue with British rule isn’t that it’s sectarian or whatever, it’s that it was a colonial situation in which the Brits flagrantly broke all of their own laws in pursuit of their own interests.

3 - trying to equate collusion with running agents etc is just b*llocks and deflection to be honest. The British tried to infiltrate the IRA with a view to closing it down, the British infiltrated Loyalism with a view to using them as proxies in their war against the IRA. In effect, the British state organised and directed the murder of its own citizens. Brian Nelson was the UDA’s director of intelligence, director ran by British intelligence and someone who ordered and organised targeted killings while being handled by the state. That’s collusion. And it went far higher than “an RUC sergeant”.

4 - I know Stevens wasn’t about the Glennane gang, it evidenced widespread and systemic collusion and for some reason you think this wasn’t at play in mid-Ulster in the 1970s despite Loyalists themselves openly and frankly admitting that it was.

Sorry mate, the forces of ‘law and order’ here have no moral superiority in this argument no matter how much you wish them to have it.

FTA69 wrote: »

1 - British troops were deployed in 1969 to bolster the Stormont regime and it was on the behest of that regime they enforced internment, including torturing some of the internees. That was the civil power. The British state then took direct control of their colony once they realised that Stormont could no longer steward the situation on their behalf.

2 - I don’t know why you keep trying to condense the matter into religion and Catholic v Protestant etc. My issue with British rule isn’t that it’s sectarian or whatever, it’s that it was a colonial situation in which the Brits flagrantly broke all of their own laws in pursuit of their own interests.

3 - trying to equate collusion with running agents etc is just b*llocks and deflection to be honest. The British tried to infiltrate the IRA with a view to closing it down, the British infiltrated Loyalism with a view to using them as proxies in their war against the IRA. In effect, the British state organised and directed the murder of its own citizens. Brian Nelson was the UDA’s director of intelligence, director ran by British intelligence and someone who ordered and organised targeted killings while being handled by the state. That’s collusion. And it went far higher than “an RUC sergeant”.

4 - I know Stevens wasn’t about the Glennane gang, it evidenced widespread and systemic collusion and for some reason you think this wasn’t at play in mid-Ulster in the 1970s despite Loyalists themselves openly and frankly admitting that it was.

Sorry mate, the forces of ‘law and order’ here have no moral superiority in this argument no matter how much you wish them to have it.

One aspect of collusion that receives little attention is the targeting of family members of Republicans. I imagine that will come out in the wash in due course. Nothing sapped morale like killing a parent or partner of a republican

FTA69 wrote: »

I’ve just noticed this here.

Are you seriously suggesting that a given British soldier is incapable of being involved in extrajudicial killing because he was Catholic and went to a posh college? Seriously?

Imagine that in any given trial.

“So you’re charged with murder”

“Wow hold up mate I went to Trinity”

“Oh really? Case dismissed!”

Absolutely ridiculous.

Yeh coupled with the 'no collusion above sergeant rank' claim I think this is just a wind up merchant.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Regular hassle here on the border if they thought you were connected.

Stripping out cars at the Cloghue checkpoint in Newry just to piss people off and delay them - used to happen a teacher of mine on a daily basis.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thousands upon thousands of stories like this. That is why there is such fear of a return to a hard border, because this kind of stuff will escalate and escalate again.

Questions were asked in the HOC about an incident here when a much tortured football team (held up and detained over many many years going to games and individually) got out of their cars and buses en masse after being detained coming back from a dinner dance and had a fist fight with the soldiers. I believe it was like something out of the wild west.

That kind of behaviour always always boils over. And it will again.

I hope to god it doesn't return. My gaff was directly under the flightpath of Europe's busiest heliport and I'm kinda used to the peace and quiet now.

6541 wrote: »

In a way I hope we have a hard border again. It will force the issue and hopefully lead to a final settlement.
Its a shame that I think this way but it seems 50 percent of the population still haven't got the message that its a equal society or agitation.

I kinda get your sentiment but it will lead to unwanted issues especially for those of us who cross the border on a daily basis.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No...absolutely no.
A UI will come anyway.

A UI will be a long way off with FFG in charge.

Charlie has an admirer. Lovely.

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1311738900629598208

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Charlie has an admirer. Lovely.

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1311738900629598208

Jamie himself was a huge supporter of Willie "terrorists are bad except the ones I support" Fraiser.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No...absolutely no.
A UI will come anyway.

I am in favour of a united Ireland and I firmly believe that there is ample pitential to be a successful economy in an all Ireland administration. Agriculture, pharmaceuticals, tourism etc if working together can be as successful as any small populated country.

I am not in favour of a united Ireland where one million dont want to be part of it.
Sinn Fein have shown nothing that would encourage the Unionist/Loyalist to join up. Gloating over a prison escape where a man died wont encourage them either.

Edgware wrote: »

I am in favour of a united Ireland and I firmly believe that there is ample pitential to be a successful economy in an all Ireland administration. Agriculture, pharmaceuticals, tourism etc if working together can be as successful as any small populated country.

I am not in favour of a united Ireland where one million dont want to be part of it.
Sinn Fein have shown nothing that would encourage the Unionist/Loyalist to join up. Gloating over a prison escape where a man died wont encourage them either.

SF don't own the concept of a UI.

Democracy is democracy. If the majority want it to happen it will happen.