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24-10-2019, 15:10   #3031
woohoo!!!
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There's no legal impediment in the planning act re the 4 week appeal period. It is practice that after a decision no council will talk to the applicant while the appeal period is live. They can afterwards but this can just be a phone call, there's no obligation to set up a sit down meeting.

As regards private information to confirm local needs, you need to redact the private information on a letter say from Revenue, they just want the address and a date, confirming you have lived there since whatever date. They don't want and cannot make public the details of the letter from Revenue, as in that info is private and GDPR rules.
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24-10-2019, 15:59   #3032
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There's no legal impediment in the planning act re the 4 week appeal period. It is practice that after a decision no council will talk to the applicant while the appeal period is live. They can afterwards but this can just be a phone call, there's no obligation to set up a sit down meeting.

As regards private information to confirm local needs, you need to redact the private information on a letter say from Revenue, they just want the address and a date, confirming you have lived there since whatever date. They don't want and cannot make public the details of the letter from Revenue, as in that info is private and GDPR rules.
All the details other than name,date and address were blurred out on the letters provided. They would have been better off in-validating the application rather than letting it runs its course knowing full well it was an essential part of the application.
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25-10-2019, 06:24   #3033
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All the details other than name,date and address were blurred out on the letters provided. They would have been better off in-validating the application rather than letting it runs its course knowing full well it was an essential part of the application.
Suggest this was not the primary reason for refusal.
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26-10-2019, 14:29   #3034
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All the details other than name,date and address were blurred out on the letters provided. They would have been better off in-validating the application rather than letting it runs its course knowing full well it was an essential part of the application.
Best bet then is contact a local councillor to ask what exactly should be sent in/what will they accept to set out local needs.
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05-11-2019, 10:12   #3035
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Suggest this was not the primary reason for refusal.

You are correct. We have a councillor on the case who has asked some questions and the main issue is linear development which was never raised in a favourable pre-plan thousands of euro's ago. This local need issue has been added to re-inforce the liner development refusal.

Pretty poor on their behalf. They have all of the information to prove the local need but have chosen not to use so that it can be added along with a linear development refusal . As most will know, exceptions can be made to linear development where an applicant is local and has no other land available to them.
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06-11-2019, 10:32   #3036
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They have all of the information to prove the local need but have chosen not to use so that it can be added along with a linear development refusal
I'm being a little nosy so feel free to ignore but what is your local need? If the location is outside the Settlement strategy for the area and doesn't meet whats defined as local need are they likely going to drop the local needs thing?
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07-11-2019, 14:26   #3037
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I'm being a little nosy so feel free to ignore but what is your local need? If the location is outside the Settlement strategy for the area and doesn't meet whats defined as local need are they likely going to drop the local needs thing?
My local need is born and grew up in area, still live in area in rented accomodation.
Parents live 2km from proposed site.
Kids in school in the area. All happening within a 2km radius of proposed site.
There is no development plan prohibiting development in this area.

There is a recently granted application less than 1km from our site. Not only is it also linear development, but it extends the pattern. Our site is infill in a line of homes 20 long.

Last edited by realflash1982; 07-11-2019 at 14:34.
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07-11-2019, 16:01   #3038
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Having been through it myself in the past, I'll play the part of the hardest planner (assuming this is a somewhat rurally area)

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My local need is born and grew up in area, still live in area in rented accomodation.
Parents live 2km from proposed site.
This isn't proof you need to live in the area. All that shows is you have a tie to the area but that is not a need. That's why they told you the things that wouldn't be acceptable as they only show a tie, not a need.

Technically, you already have a house (I know it's rented) too, so why do you need to build one. I've heard this one before (and it's completely unfair imo!!)

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Kids in school in the area.
There might only a need if there is no suitable housing for sale/rent within a reasonable distance of the school. Think about transport to school and if without living there you'd have to move schools and uproot your kids.

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There is no development plan prohibiting development in this area.
Check what the development plan for the area is and if you meet it. All areas have a development plan.

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There is a recently granted application less than 1km from our site. Not only is it also linear development, but it extends the pattern. Our site is infill in a line of homes 20 long.
I'd watch using this as a rebuttal if that's a plan. This could harm your chances because a case will be made that that was the last house that could be built and another could be the straw that breaks camels back etc.

They don't approach it with any emotion (nor should they to be fair). Not fully knowing your situation but it is the desire to stop one off house outside established areas.

Best of luck with it and hope you get a good outcome!
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07-11-2019, 16:26   #3039
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Having been through it myself in the past, I'll play the part of the hardest planner (assuming this is a somewhat rurally area)



This isn't proof you need to live in the area. All that shows is you have a tie to the area but that is not a need. That's why they told you the things that wouldn't be acceptable as they only show a tie, not a need.

Technically, you already have a house (I know it's rented) too, so why do you need to build one. I've heard this one before (and it's completely unfair imo!!)


There might only a need if there is no suitable housing for sale/rent within a reasonable distance of the school. Think about transport to school and if without living there you'd have to move schools and uproot your kids.



Check what the development plan for the area is and if you meet it. All areas have a development plan.



I'd watch using this as a rebuttal if that's a plan. This could harm your chances because a case will be made that that was the last house that could be built and another could be the straw that breaks camels back etc.

They don't approach it with any emotion (nor should they to be fair). Not fully knowing your situation but it is the desire to stop one off house outside established areas.

Best of luck with it and hope you get a good outcome!
I take all your points on board but there are no other rental options in the area and very few houses are ever available for purchase.

It makes no sense for me to build in another settlement area, away from family and long school commutes to drop off and pick up kids. I would spend half my days on the road.

They can play the local need not met card all they want but the fact remains they discussed local need in my pre-plan and they agreed that I had a strong case for that and just needed to put forward the evidence, school letter etc.

If they mentioned a local need or linear development issue in the beginning, at least we could have walked away along with our house savings. As it stands we are now 8k out of pocket as we pursued a path due to a favourable and encouraging pre-plan, now for them to change their mind and dig their heels in.

This now severely impacts both our self build and buying potential in the future due to savings losses. I know many have been down this road and lost more, but it is still a difficult one to swallow.
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18-11-2019, 17:36   #3040
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Hi, I can anyone offer some advice on my situation?

I've recently been turned down (twice) by my LA for planning permission. The site is in my mother's home village and while we don't live there two of her sisters (my aunts) continue to. In addition to this linkage I have also several other cousins living in the area. The site is also on the boundary of planning zones and as a result I am merely metres out of the 'local need radius' that the LA are looking for. One of the above aunts lives with her husband having returned home from the UK ten years ago - their children and grandchildren continue to live there. The other aunt lives by herself, is not married and has no children. The CDP states that they will look favourably where an applicant is seeking permission in order to live near 'elderly parents or near elderly relatives who have no children' in order to provide 'security, care and support'. I have substantiated this with medical evidence which outlines the care needs of these relatives however the council is unwilling to acknowledge this as I cannot claim to be 'a full time carer' despite the fact that the CDP makes no reference to this. They are also saying that I am not local enough despite the family linkage and connections that I have demonstrated. At the end of the day my agent is satisfied that my need and the needs of my elderly relatives, as per the CDP, is sufficient to grant permission. We have seen where other applicants have had permission granted by the LA for very similar situations. What is the best way for me to fight this? Thanks
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18-11-2019, 17:48   #3041
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Hi, I can anyone offer some advice on my situation?

I've recently been turned down (twice) by my LA for planning permission. The site is in my mother's home village and while we don't live there two of her sisters (my aunts) continue to. In addition to this linkage I have also several other cousins living in the area. The site is also on the boundary of planning zones and as a result I am merely metres out of the 'local need radius' that the LA are looking for. One of the above aunts lives with her husband having returned home from the UK ten years ago - their children and grandchildren continue to live there. The other aunt lives by herself, is not married and has no children. The CDP states that they will look favourably where an applicant is seeking permission in order to live near 'elderly parents or near elderly relatives who have no children' in order to provide 'security, care and support'. I have substantiated this with medical evidence which outlines the care needs of these relatives however the council is unwilling to acknowledge this as I cannot claim to be 'a full time carer' despite the fact that the CDP makes no reference to this. They are also saying that I am not local enough despite the family linkage and connections that I have demonstrated. At the end of the day my agent is satisfied that my need and the needs of my elderly relatives, as per the CDP, is sufficient to grant permission. We have seen where other applicants have had permission granted by the LA for very similar situations. What is the best way for me to fight this? Thanks
Appeal it to the board if you’re convinced the PA are wrong in their decision to refuse you planning permission.
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02-12-2019, 09:57   #3042
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There is a site for sale locally with full planning permission. Looking at the application online there were was a refusal on this originally before it was eventually granted based on the applicants 'Local Need'.

Is it possible for them to sell/transfer this site with planning permission to somebody else? Does the prospective purchaser just need to meet the same 'local need' or is it more complicated than that?
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02-12-2019, 10:42   #3043
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There is a site for sale locally with full planning permission. Looking at the application online there were was a refusal on this originally before it was eventually granted based on the applicants 'Local Need'.

Is it possible for them to sell/transfer this site with planning permission to somebody else? Does the prospective purchaser just need to meet the same 'local need' or is it more complicated than that?
There is normally a condition against sale within 7 years without explicit written council permission to the sale. This is 7 years from it getting entered to the deeds iirc not from date built.

This is to stop people building for profit because they might meet local need.

edit: Sorry, I misread and thought the house was built. Eitherway, the PP was granted to the applicants where local needs apply and was a condition of it, the council would need to ok the sale IIRC.

Last edited by Reati; 02-12-2019 at 10:46.
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07-12-2019, 14:38   #3044
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My fiance and I are planning to build a house, but we do not want to live in either of respective home areas so we cannot apply for planning under local needs. We are looking at either Galway, Offaly or Kildare at the moment and are considering buying a site to apply for planning, so we're trying to understand what our chances will be like in achieving planning. I've read the development plans for these counties but I find they have just confused me even further.

Basically I was hoping to find answers to the following:

1. Is it likely to be granted permission to build our own home considering we are not from the area? It seems a lot of people on this thread have discussed being denied PP even though they are from the area.
2. Does it help if the house is located on the outskirts of a town or village rather than a "one off" roadside house in the countryside which the planners want to avoid?
3. If we buy a site with an existing dwelling like a small cottage or run down house and essentially "attach" the house we want to build by incorporating the existing dwelling into the design, does that make it easier to get planning permission?
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07-12-2019, 14:45   #3045
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Originally Posted by ProfanityURL View Post
My fiance and I are planning to build a house, but we do not want to live in either of respective home areas so we cannot apply for planning under local needs. We are looking at either Galway, Offaly or Kildare at the moment and are considering buying a site to apply for planning, so we're trying to understand what our chances will be like in achieving planning. I've read the development plans for these counties but I find they have just confused me even further.

Basically I was hoping to find answers to the following:

1. Is it likely to be granted permission to build our own home considering we are not from the area? It seems a lot of people on this thread have discussed being denied PP even though they are from the area.
2. Does it help if the house is located on the outskirts of a town or village rather than a "one off" roadside house in the countryside which the planners want to avoid?
3. If we buy a site with an existing dwelling like a small cottage or run down house and essentially "attach" the house we want to build by incorporating the existing dwelling into the design, does that make it easier to get planning permission?
Yes it is.

You need to find rural areas considered "structurally weak" in their development plan, and focus your site hunting there.

Make sure whatever sites you look at comply with proper standards.
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