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25-02-2014, 00:43   #46
lludson
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Ok, I found it. Judy sent me a photo. I have lined it up in photoshop with the image I found here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...k_-_137195.jpg


Here is the Google street view of the cemetery. It is around the block to the East of the Carrickmannon church, on 74 Drumreagh Rd., just north of Kilcarn Rd.: http://goo.gl/QBdvn0

Below is a photo of how it looks now versus then. In the new photo on the left, the field of view is just to the right of the grave's headstone location, which is marked by an 'X'. But I can see it by zooming in on the street view.


Here lies Charles and Mary Carson.


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25-02-2014, 01:11   #47
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Here is a screenshot from the Google Streetview:

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25-02-2014, 15:14   #48
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lludson, it looks like our work here is done and you have now become a genealogy detective
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25-02-2014, 16:10   #49
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Hah! I don't know about that. You guys have so many resources, and I have learned just a couple. =)
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25-02-2014, 17:10   #50
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Ok, scamallnaoi pm'd me some new info on Reddit...

~~~~~~

Margaret's husband John died circa 1914. The 1911 census says Margaret had 13 children, 6 of whom were living. Rose's visit to Belfast coincided with a tragic period in the McGouran household. Margaret's second youngest son Alphonsus died in 1919., aged about 18. Her only living daughter Veronica died in early 1920, aged about 23. The deaths of Margaret and her son Henry (age 25) were registered at the end of the year. It seems likely that Rose knew her sister was in ill health and that is why she visited when she did.

I'm not sure what became of Margaret's son Patrick. Charles and Daniel immigrated to Rose in 1921. Their nearest relative in Ireland at the time was an aunt Bridget McBrien of 42 Mountpottinger Street (around the corner from Beechfield St). Charles and Daniel lived with Rose for a year after arriving. They returned to Ireland a few time in the 20s and 30s. Daniel had a family in Brooklyn NY and died there in 1961. Here is an overview of all of Margaret's children I was able to identify:

Agnes Jane 1882-1882 Down
Catherine 1885- before 1911 Belfast
John 1889- before 1911 Belfast
Charles 1890-after 1928
Patrick 1892-
Henry Joseph 1895-1920 Belfast
Veronica 1896 -1920 Belfast
Edward 1898-1901 Belfast
Alphonsus 1901-1919 Belfast
Daniel Patrick 1905-1961 NY
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25-02-2014, 22:25   #51
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Tom here.

You people are amazing.
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26-02-2014, 11:19   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lludson View Post
Margaret's second youngest son Alphonsus died in 1919., aged about 18. Her only living daughter Veronica died in early 1920, aged about 23.
Both young, I'd hazard a guess at them being victims of the 'Great Flu'.

Fascinating to follow this thread.
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26-02-2014, 12:06   #53
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I had hoped to get some later details of Belfast street listings to narrow down dates for McGourans and Mallons, but haven't heard anything back yet so far - the more recent data can be less easy to access online.

Took a look at the locations mentioned and step back in time in case these have not been mentioned already : Saintfield is a town and civil parish, Carrickmannan townland is in Killinchy civil parish, Ballygowan townland is in Comber civil parish. Comber civil parish, which is to the north of and adjacent to both Saintfield and Killinchy civil parishes.

Lewis 1837

Saintfield (post-town & civil parish) -
Comber (Cumber) civil parish

Saintfield RC parish covered Saintfield and Killinchy civil parishes and I think most of Comber civil parish would have been covered by Newtownards RC parish, but the boundaries may not have followed the civil parishes exactly.

Griffith's Valuation took place in 1863 for this area and shows a few Carson and Mullen entries in the various civil parishes :
Carson
Killinchy cp : Patrick, John, James & Mary
James listed with a forge in Carrickmannan townland
Saintfield cp : James (x3), William (x2)
Comber cp : Robert, John, Thomas
John is listed with a house, forge and small plot of land (more like a garden), and located in Ballygowan townland - so poss. grand-father or uncle to Rose.
Mullen
Comber cp : James, Samuel (x2)
Killinchy cp : Daniel, Margaret, Bernard, Henry
Saintfield cp : Jane
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26-02-2014, 16:13   #54
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Well, I enjoyed that show. How about you guys? I am so sure that Ponster is right about Joe and Briege (he made the connection and was in contact with RTE, or working with them at the least). I hope they are able to confirm the relation without a doubt. But I just know it's right...
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26-02-2014, 19:23   #55
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I put McGouran details together in case these help with the connections :

The 1943 Belfast directory is not indexed by surname yet, but some googling got around that ..
268 Falls Rd, P. McGouran, inspector
168 Falls Rd, Dr. G. J. McGouran,
40 Merrion Street, John McGouran, labourer
13 Middlepath Street, J. McGouran, labourer
27 Bank St., Gerard McGouran, Printer, Stationer, Account Book Manufacturer
40 Comber Street, W.J. McGouran, labourer
6 Young's Row, Miss Sarah McGouran
151 Oldpark Road, Sacred Heart Church - Rev. McGouran, P.P.
49 Marmount Gardens, D.A. McGouran, civil servant
38 May Street Little, Mrs. McGouran
1a Glenview St, Sacred Heart Presbytery - Rev. McGouran, P.P.
14 Chemical Street, John McGouran, crane man
and some will calendar entries from PRONI, including some the above and also some with some very familar addresses :
  • McGouran William John of 40 Comber Street Belfast labourer died 20 December 1935 Probate Belfast 16 March to Mary McGouran the widow. Effects £7 10s.
  • Probate of the Will of William McGouran late of Carrickmannon County Down Farmer who died 22 September 1909 granted at Belfast to William John McGouran Coal Porter.
  • McGouran Mary of Carrickmannon Ballygowan county Down spinster died 20 March 1935 Administration Belfast 6 April to Sarah McGouran spinster. Effects £60 4s. 3d.
  • McGouran Margaret of 38 Little May Street Belfast widow died 26 January 1943 Probate Belfast 18 October to Agnes McGouran spinster. Effects £291 13s. 8d.
  • McGouran Joseph of 1A Cavendish Square Belfast retired insurance superintendent died 3 May 1943 at Carrickmannon county Down Probate Belfast 11 August to Patrick McGouran and Patrick McGouran parish priests. Effects £415 12s. 11d.
  • McGouran John of Loughriescouse Newtownards county Down farmer died 14 March 1931 at Downpatrick in said county Administration Belfast 1 June to Hugh McGouran farmer. Effects £44 4s. 8d.
  • McGouran James of Carrickmannon county Down farmer died 10 July 1927 Probate Belfast 3 August to Joseph McGouran insurance superintendent and Sarah McGouran spinster. Effects £60
  • McGouran Hugh of Loughries Newtownards county Down farmer died 4 August 1938 at The Ards District Hospital Newtownards Administration Belfast 14 December to Susanna Wallace McGouran the widow. Effects £615 15s.

Last edited by shanew; 26-02-2014 at 19:32.
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05-03-2014, 12:52   #56
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some later Belfast directory details, thanks to Mary (LennonWylie website) :

1912 - 51 Beechfield Street, John McGouran, John, labourer

1917 to 1919 - 51 Beechfield Street, Mrs. Maggie McGouran,

next directory is 1923 and a Wm. Fullerton, porter is at 51.

Last edited by shanew; 05-03-2014 at 13:02.
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18-08-2014, 15:44   #57
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if Tom or Hudson are still monitoring this topic can you get in touch by pm ?

A possible Decker cousin spotted the house search topic and got in touch, I have a name and email address
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18-08-2014, 15:57   #58
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I'll see if I can drag up a contact e-mail via 2FM researchers.
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19-09-2019, 17:55   #59
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I have posted an update to this story on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/com...m_medium=web2x
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19-09-2019, 18:01   #60
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A Story of Irish Roots, Best Friends, & Betrayal (this site was part of this story)

I have posted it to r/ireland on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/com...m_medium=web2x

Thank you to Shanew and Ponster, again. It is sad it worked out this way.
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