Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Thread Closed  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
19-02-2014, 10:52   #1
pinkypinky
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,859
House/ancestry puzzle on reddit

Surely a job for our Shane?

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/fi...22678-Feb2014/
pinkypinky is offline  
(3) thanks from:
Advertisement
19-02-2014, 11:18   #2
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
could be totally wrong, it's a common Dublin house design, but think I may have looked in to this before somewhere - if memory serves it was near a fire station ?
shanew is offline  
19-02-2014, 14:50   #3
Ponster
Moderator
 
Ponster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 10,164
Send a message via Skype™ to Ponster
I thought of shanew also when I saw the thread but reckoned that I'd just do it myself

Rose Ann, when she travelled back to Ireland in 1920 when the photo was taken put her place of birth down as Sanfield, Ireland. I found her marriage cert which named her folks as Charles Carson and Mary Mullen. The only match on record was a Charles and Mary (Mullen) Carson living in Saintfield, Co. Down. Based on everyone's ages I believe that I have the right family but this doesn't help find the location of the house.

My guess is that Rose was from Co. Down but had perhaps lived in Dublin or was visiting a sibling there, making it difficult with online records to locate the place.

Here's the reddit thread. I'd be happy if someone could find a flaw with my theory
Ponster is offline  
Thanks from:
19-02-2014, 15:33   #4
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
I think tracing family would be the way to do this with any certainly, not enough detail in the photo to be distinctive - if the poster puts a a better scan with a visible number might be more clues. There were, and still are too many houses like that, not only in Dublin, but also in other cities and large towns. I did a quick sample of the Carson surname in a mid 1910s Thom's and of the addresses which still existed about 4 of the addresses looked very similar.. a terrace with two windows upstairs slightly offset over a door and window below.

and that's assuming these relations were Carson and not link through a sister or cousin etc..
shanew is offline  
Thanks from:
19-02-2014, 18:03   #5
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
probably a long shot with the current details available, but just in case ...

attached - an enlarged version of the photo and the Carson households listed for 1921 in Thom's - so close to the date of Rose Ann's trip.




and just the people :


would the child be age about 1 ?

if so the only Carson child I can see born around the right time in the two city districts is a Christopher Carson in Dublin south during January/March quarter 1919...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg carson-1921.jpg (137.0 KB, 2175 views)
File Type: jpg phot-enlarge-200.jpg (30.7 KB, 2147 views)
shanew is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
19-02-2014, 19:03   #6
Hermy
Registered User
 
Hermy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,793
Rose Ann turns up on a number of family trees on Ancestry.
One lists her parents as John Carson and Mary Ann Mullen.
Most list her birth as October 31st 1864 in Sanfield, Northern Ireland.
Her marriage to Horace Decker in 1893 followed the death of his first wife in 1890.
Hermy is offline  
19-02-2014, 20:54   #7
Jellybaby1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,873
What a puzzle! This is just fascinating. I would also agree that records of the people would be the best way rather than using the photograph alone. If you could nail down the address by using the records then bring the photograph off to the specific street for a photo-fit! Hopefully its still standing. Good luck guys.
Jellybaby1 is offline  
19-02-2014, 20:57   #8
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
I'll post these note here in case anyone finds anything to try following up...

key quotes from original reddit thread :
Quote:
Rose's marriage certificate says her parents were Charles Carson and Mary Mullen.
.....
She applied for a passport to visit Ireland on June 26th 1920. The application says she
was born in "Sanfield, Ireland" on October 31st 1864. Her passport was issued on July 3rd.
She departed Liverpool for Quebec on October 20th 1920.
....
the passport application said she intended to leave via NY on July 20th.
and from some key details based on clues posted on the thread by ptegan, scamallnaoi et al..

The presumption is that "Sanfield" is a misinterpretation of Saintfield which is east of Lisburn.
1901 census likely parents for Rose living and Ballygowan townland, Co. Down, Newtownards Reg. district, and at same address in 1911. They list that they are married 53 years, so c1858, and had 10 children, 7 of which are living. Two of the children are single and at home on the returns - Edward and Agnes.

Carson household Ballygowan 1901
Carson household Ballygowan 1911

Dont see probate entry for Charles at PRONI

children based on mix of RootsIreland & Extracted
(marr Charles & Mary c1858)
Mary Jane bapt 1859
(gap for Rose?)
William bapt 1863
Margaret 21 May 1864
Charles 25 Dec 1866
Emily 16 Jun 1868
John 29 Nov 1871
Henry 25 Jan 1874
Edward 19 Jun 1876
Agnes Maria 23 Feb 1879

a few gaps and 1 of the 10 born to the couple missing

Last edited by shanew; 19-02-2014 at 21:33.
shanew is offline  
19-02-2014, 21:13   #9
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
one detail more for now...

An entry in Valuation book AL/12/B/23/3F (1921 - 1929) shows a transfer of plot 11bb consisting of house, and abt 15 acres of land, in Ballygowan townland, Comber civil parish from Charles Carson to Edward Carson possibly during 1921 - red ink.

at least gives a rough date limit for Charles, and probably rules Edward out as the Dublin connection

and a probable UK incoming 18 Aug 1920 passenger list on Anc* for the 'Empress of France' arriving Liverpool from Quebec at shows a Rose Decker age 54 and a Margaret Mullen (relation on mother's side ?) age 70. Both give intended address as 51 Beachfield Belfast.

wonder what that house looks like?

Last edited by shanew; 19-02-2014 at 21:57.
shanew is offline  
Advertisement
19-02-2014, 22:30   #10
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
I think the house might be the one at Beechfield Street Belfast....

1918 directory
Beechfield Street
Mountpottinger Road to Templemore Avenue
Pottinger Ward, East Par. Div.

51. McGouran, Mrs. Maggie

wonder if Maggie might be Rose's sister...


Mc McGouran houusehold - 1911

13 children 6 alive John & Marg marr 29 years so c1882
RC, all born Co. Down except Alphonsun born 'Belfast City'

didn't find 51 on building return yet, but at least some of the houses have 4 or 5 rooms and 3 windows in front...

EDIT : ha!!! - see google street view below - it's a very good match. I think the bay windows were added later. Some of the houses on the street dont have them.
I'm not going to bother counting bricks...!

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 51beechfield.jpg (141.9 KB, 2230 views)
shanew is offline  
19-02-2014, 22:46   #11
Ponster
Moderator
 
Ponster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 10,164
Send a message via Skype™ to Ponster
That just has to be the house. The details are just too similar for it not to be the same place.

I'll see what I can dig up on Mrs. Maggie McGouran.

BTW I've PMd the OP on reddit with this thread but it may be worth making your own post over there shanew.
Ponster is offline  
(2) thanks from:
19-02-2014, 22:53   #12
Ponster
Moderator
 
Ponster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 10,164
Send a message via Skype™ to Ponster
Irishroots has a record of a 1881 marriage between Margaret Carson and a McGouran in Co. Down.
Ponster is offline  
(2) thanks from:
19-02-2014, 22:54   #13
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponster View Post
That just has to be the house. The details are just too similar for it not to be the same place.

I'll see what I can dig up on Mrs. Maggie McGouran.

BTW I've PMd the OP on reddit with this thread but it may be worth making your own post over there shanew.
thx - I've replied on there, with a link to here.
shanew is offline  
Thanks from:
19-02-2014, 22:56   #14
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponster View Post
Irishroots has a record of a 1881 marriage between Margaret Carson and a McGouran in Co. Down.
even better, I had a quick search for that - thought it might be her sister

everything screamed Co. Down... should have trusted that instinct earlier

Last edited by shanew; 19-02-2014 at 23:12.
shanew is offline  
Thanks from:
19-02-2014, 23:17   #15
shanew
 
shanew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,768
forgot to post a Street View link in case anyone wants to browse... http://goo.gl/K7YDqQ
shanew is offline  
Thanks from:
Thread Closed

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search