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02-10-2019, 13:44   #1
Cragaun
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Search for a solder of WW1

This item has beaten me and I need some fresh ideas.

Working through a batch of old records from the USA we found a newspaper article which reported that a man named Joseph G Dwyer had been notified as killed in action. The article had enough detail for us to confirm that the man in question is on the attached registration card. We are also satisfied that his brother is on per the second registration card.

However we can find no record for them in Ireland for birth or the 1901 census.
Leaving aside the angle that perhaps they were born in the US to an Irish immigrant family, can anyone help with finding a record for them in Ireland?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Joseph Dwyer - WW1 draft registration card.jpg (155.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg James Dwyer - WW1 draft registration card.jpg (471.4 KB, 10 views)
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02-10-2019, 17:26   #2
KildareFan
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Ok, so far I've compared the signatures of Joseph on his WW1 Reg form and that of Joseph Patrick Dwyer's Naturalisation papers [on ancestry at https://ancstry.me/2nHo3Kb & they're just about identical so I'm assuming they're the same. On the WW1 form Joseph gives his D.O.B as 16 Mar 1891; on the Naturalisation form 16 Mar 1890, Limerick. He states he arrived in Boston on 1st May 1909 on the Ivernia. Checking the Ivernia passenger list, I find it left Queenstown on 21st April 1909, arrived in Boston 29th April 1909 https://ancstry.me/2pqp1Lh. On board is Patrick Dwyer, aged 22 [should be 19?], labourer, from Pallasgreen Co Limerick, contact in Pallasgreen, Thos O’Dwyer, heading for St Louis, going to his brother Michael O’Dwyer in St Stanislaus Seminary St Louis; he was 5’9” fair complexion, blue eyes, brown ; on the WW1 form he is 'tall' with grey eyes & auburn hair....

I'm trying to find him in the 1901 Census with no success so far....will report back.
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02-10-2019, 18:42   #3
spurious
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They may be there under ODwyer.
The older guy's age is a little out.
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02-10-2019, 19:20   #4
pinkypinky
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Amazing work, Kildarefan!
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02-10-2019, 19:28   #5
Cragaun
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Originally Posted by KildareFan View Post
Ok, so far I've compared the signatures of Joseph on his WW1 Reg form and that of Joseph Patrick Dwyer's Naturalisation papers [on ancestry at https://ancstry.me/2nHo3Kb & they're just about identical so I'm assuming they're the same. On the WW1 form Joseph gives his D.O.B as 16 Mar 1891; on the Naturalisation form 16 Mar 1890, Limerick. He states he arrived in Boston on 1st May 1909 on the Ivernia. Checking the Ivernia passenger list, I find it left Queenstown on 21st April 1909, arrived in Boston 29th April 1909 https://ancstry.me/2pqp1Lh. On board is Patrick Dwyer, aged 22 [should be 19?], labourer, from Pallasgreen Co Limerick, contact in Pallasgreen, Thos O’Dwyer, heading for St Louis, going to his brother Michael O’Dwyer in St Stanislaus Seminary St Louis; he was 5’9” fair complexion, blue eyes, brown ; on the WW1 form he is 'tall' with grey eyes & auburn hair....

I'm trying to find him in the 1901 Census with no success so far....will report back.
Thank you very much!

I had tried ancestry but had no luck. For my learning what did you use as a search parameter to get those records.

I had a hunch this would work round to a locality I have worked on but did not expect it to get quite so close to members of my family.
With the clues you have provided, I can match the family to this link
http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...kderk/1515602/
and match James as born 14 May 1882 (rather than 1884) and being the same James as is on the census page.

There is no one on the page to match Joseph but that may be another search to find in a school record as the above has another brother Michael in a seminary in St Louis. I have a 1901 census record for Michael, in relatives house.

Thank you again, this will make an interesting story when I get all of this together
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02-10-2019, 19:34   #6
Cragaun
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Thank you for your help, with the earlier information I can locate the family to Knockderk and rule out this family.
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03-10-2019, 11:09   #7
KildareFan
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"I had tried ancestry but had no luck. For my learning what did you use as a search parameter to get those records."

Joseph stated on his WW1 form that he had applied for naturalisation, so I searched the Naturalisation forms, using the broad details, including date of birth. This brought up the naturalisation application form for Joseph Patrick Dwyer, where he gave the details about his birth place & date of arrival in the US & name of ship. I then searched for the Ivernia on the passenger details database & found that Patrick Dwyer was on the ship - but no Joseph, and that gave more details about Joseph's brother Michael.....

From the Census, Patrick [aka Joseph] was aged 14, so born about 1887-8.... I'm trying to find him on Irish genealogy; I've found a Thomas Dwyer b. 28 Nov 1879 in Derg, Grean District, Co Limerick, son of THomas Dwyer & Johanna Godfrey who may be the 21 years old Thomas in the Census https://bit.ly/2pFfkJ7
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03-10-2019, 11:13   #8
KildareFan
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Here's the marriage for Thomas Dwyer & Johanna Godfrey if that's any assistance? They married on 23 Feb 1878 https://bit.ly/2nUKeg1
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03-10-2019, 11:16   #9
Cragaun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KildareFan View Post
"I had tried ancestry but had no luck. For my learning what did you use as a search parameter to get those records."

Joseph stated on his WW1 form that he had applied for naturalisation, so I searched the Naturalisation forms, using the broad details, including date of birth. This brought up the naturalisation application form for Joseph Patrick Dwyer, where he gave the details about his birth place & date of arrival in the US & name of ship. I then searched for the Ivernia on the passenger details database & found that Patrick Dwyer was on the ship - but no Joseph, and that gave more details about Joseph's brother Michael.....

From the Census, Patrick [aka Joseph] was aged 14, so born about 1887-8.... I'm trying to find him on Irish genealogy; I've found a Thomas Dwyer b. 28 Nov 1879 in Derg, Grean District, Co Limerick, son of THomas Dwyer & Johanna Godfrey who may be the 21 years old Thomas in the Census https://bit.ly/2pFfkJ7

That is a very useful tutorial in following through on information available to identify another record. Thank you again.

You have the correct family. They appear to have been loose with age and date of birth. I have been able to confirm with a contact point from their family that this is the birth record for Patrick Joseph/Joseph Patrick https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....81/1953944.pdf
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03-10-2019, 15:05   #10
KildareFan
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<You have the correct family. They appear to have been loose with age and date of birth. I have been able to confirm with a contact point from their family that this is the birth record for Patrick Joseph/Joseph Patrick https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....81/1953944.pdf>

Born 1 November 1886 & tells everyone he was born 1 May 1890 or 1891.... so his age on the passage out was correct (22 in 1909). Just shows how flexible you need to be to find what you're looking for..
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05-10-2019, 18:10   #11
tabbey
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Originally Posted by KildareFan View Post

Born 1 November 1886 & tells everyone he was born 1 May 1890 or 1891.... so his age on the passage out was correct (22 in 1909). Just shows how flexible you need to be to find what you're looking for..
Sometimes a child born 1886 might die in infancy, and be followed by another with the same name a few years later.
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