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Last minute honeymoon for friend (Coronavirus)
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10-03-2020 4:31pm#1My friend has recently decided to cancel her honeymoon in Japan because of coronavirus. She has flights booked with BA and they're refusing refunds, but she's not happy with the thought of being out there and the situation changing (imposed quarantines, someone on the flight testing positive, getting sick or her husband getting sick).
She's now looking for something else to do instead, preferably on a budget, since they're £2000 down for flights and she can't get her annual leave back because it's the end of the financial year. She'd obviously prefer to avoid risk of getting the virus as much as possible, so looking to avoid large crowds and crowded places, but doesn't drive so some form of transport is necessary. She lives in north London and would be happy to go anywhere in the UK or elsewhere, just not somewhere as far as Japan.
She's obviously restricted by not being able to drive - I've suggested maybe staying in rural Wales, or hiking in Scotland but it might be pretty difficult to get out there (or maybe not, haven't had time to check). Has anyone any ideas? I'm absolutely gutted for her and trying to help sort something out - she only has a few days to arrange it.0
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If the couple are the outdoors type getting an air B&B cottage (full house) in the locations you suggested would be a great idea. Settling in with some books, good food, wine/beer, a roaring fire and a sheepskin rug could be a great Honeymoon alternative to the stress of traveling overseas. Only concern is that if it is in the near future, weather-wise its early for many parts of Scotland. Alternatives that I know would be Cornwall, The Peak District, The Yorkshire Dales, Hadrians Wall area and The Norfolk Broads. Most of these can be reached by train/coach from London.
Oh and I wouldn’t give up too easily on that refund either.0 -
scottish highlands,
they can get there by train0 -
Have a google of quirky UK accommodation and there are some sites with lighthouses, tents, etc that you can stay in. All over the UK so could just be filtered.0
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As Dovies has said there are some very cool, quirky places. i signed up to this email ages ago - I've never used it but they do have some great and unusual places to stay: https://www.coolplaces.co.uk/
What about going south to Cornwall area? It always looks almost tropical and very picturesque. The Isle of Skye in Scotland is another one that looks fab.0 -
Hibernicis wrote: »If the couple are the outdoors type getting an air B&B cottage (full house) in the locations you suggested would be a great idea. Settling in with some books, good food, wine/beer, a roaring fire and a sheepskin rug could be a great Honeymoon alternative to the stress of traveling overseas. Only concern is that if it is in the near future, weather-wise its early for many parts of Scotland. Alternatives that I know would be Cornwall, The Peak District, The Yorkshire Dales, Hadrians Wall area and The Norfolk Broads. Most of these can be reached by train/coach from London.
Oh and I wouldn’t give up too easily on that refund either.
Thanks - all sound like good ideas. Was just a bit concerned that it'd be hard to get around once there (like the accommodation all seems a bit in the middle of nowhere).
What do you mean about the refund? BA are just being rotten about it. They're saying there's no travel warning and just refusing to budge.0 -
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lainey_d_123 wrote: »Thanks - all sound like good ideas. Was just a bit concerned that it'd be hard to get around once there (like the accommodation all seems a bit in the middle of nowhere).
What do you mean about the refund? BA are just being rotten about it. They're saying there's no travel warning and just refusing to budge.
They're hardly being rotten if their is no travel advisory
Can't just get a refund for a change of mind on flights0 -
They're hardly being rotten if their is no travel advisory
Can't just get a refund for a change of mind on flights
It's highly irresponsible to put people in a position where they either lose their hard earned money or risk getting and/or spreading a virus. It's not a 'change of mind' because they don't fancy going, is it? It's a public health issue. I noticed BA were still refusing refunds on flights to Italy as late as yesterday, insisting they were 'operating as normal' and now that there's a travel ban, BA are refusing to assist those same passengers in any way....seems kind of unbelievable to me?!
Monday: No, you can't have a refund on flights to Italy, they're operating as normal, don't be silly, just go
Tuesday: Well, of course we can't help you now you're stranded in Italy because we've cancelled our flights, there's coronavirus don't you know?
I've travelled a lot in my life and this seems like extraordinarily bad form. Most other airlines are offering refunds or free changes.0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »blah blah blah
They aren't going to Italy though
To Japan where there isnt a do not travel advisory0 -
They aren't going to Italy though
To Japan where there isnt a do not travel advisory
You've totally missed the point.
There was no travel advisory to Italy yesterday.
They knew the situation was bad and yet they chose to refuse refunds, and now that the ban is in force, they're refusing to help the passengers they flew over there.
It's a fast moving situation and most other airlines have been very reasonable and understanding. Japan 2 weeks from now could be in lockdown, with my friend stuck there, maybe sick, and unable to get back. It's not unlikely.0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »You've totally missed the point.
There was no travel advisory to Italy yesterday.
They knew the situation was bad and yet they chose to refuse refunds, and now that the ban is in force, they're refusing to help the passengers they flew over there.
It's a fast moving situation and most other airlines have been very reasonable and understanding. Japan 2 weeks from now could be in lockdown, with my friend stuck there, maybe sick, and unable to get back. It's not unlikely.
You seem very angry0 -
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What about ABC islands ...Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, known as the Dutch Carribbean islands.
I checked earlier ... Currently 26degrees in Aruba, we stayed in the Renaissance hotel in Aruba, you have free access to a private island where you can hand feed flamingos.
Edit: from Ireland you fly to Holland then direct to Aruba from there, from England you can fly to bogota or holland then on to Aruba.
Alternative options, igazu falls or machu pichu Mexico etc0 -
I advise the friend not to go anywhere. What if they get cut off from the internet and can’t ask you to post online asking for advice for them?0
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Why don't they just go to the canaries?
There was one hotel lock down on one island.
Just go to one of the other ones.
If they enjoy outdoors stuff, there are hikes, cycles etc all over the islands0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »Thanks - all sound like good ideas. Was just a bit concerned that it'd be hard to get around once there (like the accommodation all seems a bit in the middle of nowhere).
Most of the areas mentioned cater for walkers, and will have some facilities (e.g. a cottage in a village or small town) that will work for people without a car. Not driving is obviously a limiting factor, but there are a few places I’ve been on that list where I could probably while away a pleasant week if the company was right. Dovies point about quirky accommodation is also a great suggestion.lainey_d_123 wrote: »What do you mean about the refund? BA are just being rotten about it. They're saying there's no travel warning and just refusing to budge.
BA, like any big company in this position will put its Best (Worst) foot forward and go for a very simple “No refunds” message. Arms folded and glare at you. And hope that you will p1ss off and go gently into that good night. That’s option 1. As Wuff Wuff curtly (and without offering a single helpful word) intimated, this is the legal position and the default which your friend is going to feel pressured to take.
Knowing how much £2,000 means to the average newly married couple, I’d be looking at Option 2. There are a number of extenuating circumstances here. The context is the Coronavirus, the fact that the situation is changing significantly daily if not hourly, it’s a honeymoon, multiple flights, multiple airports, extended duration of the stay (is not a one night business trip), trip of a lifetime, flying with BA because of reputation, risk of not getting home, risk of being stranded, (pre existing medical conditions if any, dependent relatives if any), Force Majeure etc. etc. And then there are some hard facts. The concern within Japan resulted in all elementary, junior and high schools being closed by the government on 27th Feb until the end of March (at the earliest). On 1st March the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) updated the Level 2 Travel Alert for Japan: This ‘Practice Enhanced Precautions’ Travel Alert says ‘Japan is experiencing sustained community transmission of respiratory illness now called COVID-19, which is caused by the novel coronavirus. That is well on the way to lockdown. Japan is now firmly positioned on the exponential transmission/uptake curve and is in the top 5 countries in the world for infection. Where on that contagion curve will it be by the end of your friend’s proposed trip ? There is a very real risk here and your friend is making the decision based on the facts available. So in terms of Option 2, I would be starting with the premise that the world has changed profoundly since the booking was made, that the the decision to travel is no longer safe or indeed viable, that the situation is changing very rapidly, that there is a substantial risk to the passenger’s health and that there is a sever risk of being stranded. I would strongly argue that this is a very human situation, that force majeur applies, And that a reasonable company/person would seek to formulate a reasonable outcome (i.e. a decent refund). Note that your friend has no legal right to this, but has a huge moral right. So how to proceed. Initially be calm and polite and expect to get an outpouring of empathy and all that politically correct customer service crud and still told to P1ss off at the end of the convo. Ask to speak to a supervisor/manager, restate the case, again being firm but polite and making copious references to the company’s reputation etc etc. Keep going up the line with it and don’t take no for an answer. And don’t get angry. Also ask for a copy of their customers charter, details of your rights Unser IATA, their formal complaints procedure, Your rights under Data Protection and GDPR etc. The Key thing to remember here is that the “squeaky wheel gets the grease”. Companies love the shy retiring type who goes away when told to do so. Stick with it and be a thorn in their side and they will quite probably dip into the discretionary fund they keep for these "get rid of the nuisance” situations. If it drags on you can also start asking for undertakings and guarantees that they will repatriate/evacuate you in the event that the situation escalates, using an air ambulance if necessary. And so on.
Sorry for being long winded but its difficult to script. In summary, either accept Option 1 (P1ss off) or put a bit of effort into Option 2 and work to getting some class of decent refund. As I said, its not about legal rights, its actually bout wearing them down, forcing them to opt for an easy life by offering you a decent refund to get rid of you. I know which I’d be doing given the sum involved.
Here is one link that might be useful It doesn’t constitute an Alert that obliges BA to automatically allow cancellation and refund, but it's getting there and adds moral support to your friend’s argument. I’m sure a bit of searching would turn up more like this.0 -
I advise the friend not to go anywhere. What if they get cut off from the internet and can’t ask you to post online asking for advice for them?
You seem like a nice person.
The woman has her wedding coming up this weekend and is dealing with that, along with all the various cancellations of all the parts of her original honeymoon. She's also had significant health issues and other major issues over the past year. She now needs to organise another honeymoon along with everything else that's going on and I said I'd ask around and look into some possible options to save her some time when she's mad busy and stressed.
Lucky I'm her friend and not you, really, isn't it.0 -
Not being rude, but it is her decision not to travel.
There are many people still living as normal, going to work, going to school, going meeting friends in Japan/China/Korea, etc. Just taking extra precaution with hygiene etc.
Yes, she is sensible to say she will not go as she may fear getting the virus, however you can't really expect BA to refund her just because of that. They can't hand out money to everyone who is scared to go, unless there is a worldwide/Japan travel ban.
Other than that, would they like a sun holiday? What about a last minute sun holiday to the Canaries/Puerto Rico, you can get some great cheap deals, and it's ok to travel there atm.0 -
Hibernicis wrote: »Most of the areas mentioned cater for walkers, and will have some facilities (e.g. a cottage in a village or small town) that will work for people without a car. Not driving is obviously a limiting factor, but there are a few places I’ve been on that list where I could probably while away a pleasant week if the company was right. Dovies point about quirky accommodation is also a great suggestion.
BA, like any big company in this position will put its Best (Worst) foot forward and go for a very simple “No refunds” message. Arms folded and glare at you. And hope that you will p1ss off and go gently into that good night. That’s option 1. As Wuff Wuff curtly (and without offering a single helpful word) intimated, this is the legal position and the default which your friend is going to feel pressured to take.
Knowing how much £2,000 means to the average newly married couple, I’d be looking at Option 2. There are a number of extenuating circumstances here. The context is the Coronavirus, the fact that the situation is changing significantly daily if not hourly, it’s a honeymoon, multiple flights, multiple airports, extended duration of the stay (is not a one night business trip), trip of a lifetime, flying with BA because of reputation, risk of not getting home, risk of being stranded, (pre existing medical conditions if any, dependent relatives if any), Force Majeure etc. etc. And then there are some hard facts. The concern within Japan resulted in all elementary, junior and high schools being closed by the government on 27th Feb until the end of March (at the earliest). On 1st March the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) updated the Level 2 Travel Alert for Japan: This ‘Practice Enhanced Precautions’ Travel Alert says ‘Japan is experiencing sustained community transmission of respiratory illness now called COVID-19, which is caused by the novel coronavirus. That is well on the way to lockdown. Japan is now firmly positioned on the exponential transmission/uptake curve and is in the top 5 countries in the world for infection. Where on that contagion curve will it be by the end of your friend’s proposed trip ? There is a very real risk here and your friend is making the decision based on the facts available. So in terms of Option 2, I would be starting with the premise that the world has changed profoundly since the booking was made, that the the decision to travel is no longer safe or indeed viable, that the situation is changing very rapidly, that there is a substantial risk to the passenger’s health and that there is a sever risk of being stranded. I would strongly argue that this is a very human situation, that force majeur applies, And that a reasonable company/person would seek to formulate a reasonable outcome (i.e. a decent refund). Note that your friend has no legal right to this, but has a huge moral right. So how to proceed. Initially be calm and polite and expect to get an outpouring of empathy and all that politically correct customer service crud and still told to P1ss off at the end of the convo. Ask to speak to a supervisor/manager, restate the case, again being firm but polite and making copious references to the company’s reputation etc etc. Keep going up the line with it and don’t take no for an answer. And don’t get angry. Also ask for a copy of their customers charter, details of your rights Unser IATA, their formal complaints procedure, Your rights under Data Protection and GDPR etc. The Key thing to remember here is that the “squeaky wheel gets the grease”. Companies love the shy retiring type who goes away when told to do so. Stick with it and be a thorn in their side and they will quite probably dip into the discretionary fund they keep for these "get rid of the nuisance” situations. If it drags on you can also start asking for undertakings and guarantees that they will repatriate/evacuate you in the event that the situation escalates, using an air ambulance if necessary. And so on.
Sorry for being long winded but its difficult to script. In summary, either accept Option 1 (P1ss off) or put a bit of effort into Option 2 and work to getting some class of decent refund. As I said, its not about legal rights, its actually bout wearing them down, forcing them to opt for an easy life by offering you a decent refund to get rid of you. I know which I’d be doing given the sum involved.
Here is one link that might be useful It doesn’t constitute an Alert that obliges BA to automatically allow cancellation and refund, but it's getting there and adds moral support to your friend’s argument. I’m sure a bit of searching would turn up more like this.
Thanks for the info, I'll pass it on.
I think she just feels there's no hope, since they're not frequent flyers or anything like that, and just have economy tickets, so why would BA ever give in, what's the incentive? I'll advise her to keep trying but definitely not now, she has the wedding itself this weekend and plenty else to stress about (rearranging the honeymoon!) but it might be worth trying to get the money back, as it would be a lot to them.0 -
dartboardio wrote: »Not being rude, but it is her decision not to travel.
There are many people still living as normal, going to work, going to school, going meeting friends in Japan/China/Korea, etc. Just taking extra precaution with hygiene etc.
Yes, she is sensible to say she will not go as she may fear getting the virus, however you can't really expect BA to refund her just because of that. They can't hand out money to everyone who is scared to go, unless there is a worldwide/Japan travel ban.
Other than that, would they like a sun holiday? What about a last minute sun holiday to the Canaries/Puerto Rico, you can get some great cheap deals, and it's ok to travel there atm.
Well, yes and no. There's a pretty major difference between people going about their lives in the country they live in (what choice do they have?) and the possibility of being stranded in a foreign country, possibly while sick, with a language barrier, and with insurers possibly not paying out for costs incurred because of a clause about pandemics. Japan is already at a Level 2 CDC warning and possibly about to declare a state of emergency. It's not a case of someone deciding not to go for personal reasons. The worst case scenario, should things rapidly go downhill, is pretty bad.
You say they can't just hand out money to anyone who doesn't want to go, but that's exactly what most of the other airlines flying to Japan are doing (JAL, ANA) - full refunds. BA are the outliers here. She'd be more than happy to change the dates or the destination but they won't do that.
They are more the outdoorsy or cultural holiday type but I think the Canaries might work, yeah...will suggest that, thanks!0 -
Have a google of quirky UK accommodation and there are some sites with lighthouses, tents, etc that you can stay in. All over the UK so could just be filtered.
These actually look brilliant...really relaxing and different! Big bonus as well not having to go through airports (she lives in London) or travel too far.0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »You seem like a nice person.
The woman has her wedding coming up this weekend and is dealing with that, along with all the various cancellations of all the parts of her original honeymoon. She's also had significant health issues and other major issues over the past year. She now needs to organise another honeymoon along with everything else that's going on and I said I'd ask around and look into some possible options to save her some time when she's mad busy and stressed.
Lucky I'm her friend and not you, really, isn't it.
Well it’s just I’ve seen you posting on other threads abusing airlines over your friends holiday. You seem like a nice person.0 -
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Well it’s just I’ve seen you posting on other threads abusing airlines over your friends holiday. You seem like a nice person.
What on earth are you on about? I haven't abused anyone. I think it's incredibly poor behaviour on BA's part not to allow flight changes at a time like this. I haven't contacted them directly at all, I was giving my opinion. Unlike you, who decided to insult someone you don't know who is going through an extremely stressful time. What a ridiculous post. Making a comment about a multi billion euro business is 'abuse' but insulting someone going through a hard time is fine, in your book?
You're aware the woman has a wedding coming up, is now having to individually cancel each part of her honeymoon at the last minute and is scrambling for ideas of what to do now, on top of the additional stress the situation is placing on the wedding (some guests possibly not able to travel to it, concern around people getting sick) and your only thought is to insult her for accepting an offer from a friend to take some of the strain off so that she might be able to get a few hours' sleep each night in the days leading up to her wedding?
What kind of person thinks and behaves like that?0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »What on earth are you on about? I haven't abused anyone. I think it's incredibly poor behaviour on BA's part not to allow flight changes at a time like this. I haven't contacted them directly at all, I was giving my opinion. Unlike you, who decided to insult someone you don't know who is going through an extremely stressful time. What a ridiculous post. Making a comment about a multi billion euro business is 'abuse' but insulting someone going through a hard time is fine, in your book?
You're aware the woman has a wedding coming up, is now having to individually cancel each part of her honeymoon at the last minute and is scrambling for ideas of what to do now, on top of the additional stress the situation is placing on the wedding (some guests possibly not able to travel to it, concern around people getting sick) and your only thought is to insult her for accepting an offer from a friend to take some of the strain off so that she might be able to get a few hours' sleep each night in the days leading up to her wedding?
What kind of person thinks and behaves like that?
Someone who’s calm, cool and collected.
I’d advise against travel until we see what way this pandemic goes. This is uncharted territory for all of us. Everyone needs to remain calm and not panic, you and your friend included.0 -
Someone who’s calm, cool and collected.
I’d advise against travel until we see what way this pandemic goes. This is uncharted territory for all of us. Everyone needs to remain calm and not panic, you and your friend included.
There's no need to post such sarcastic things, was my point. She's well able to do her own research and make her own arrangements, she's just completely overloaded right now. She can't cancel her annual leave so if she doesn't find an alternative honeymoon plan in the next few days, she'll be spending her honeymoon sitting at home. I know it's a bad situation for all of us, but particularly bad luck for this to hit during your wedding/honeymoon. She's not at all panicked, she just wants to find a way to salvage the thing and have a reasonably relaxing time, preferably somewhere remote and away from the stress.0 -
Crete or Canaries0
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lainey_d_123 wrote: »She's not at all panicked, she just wants to find a way to salvage the thing and have a reasonably relaxing time, preferably somewhere remote and away from the stress.
Sounds like getting on a plane to Japan would be a good idea then. Chances are the flight will be pretty empty, so minimal risk of contagion on board; and there's no reason why she and her husband can't go off into the mountains over there for a bit of peace and serenity.0 -
CelticRambler wrote: »Sounds like getting on a plane to Japan would be a good idea then. Chances are the flight will be pretty empty, so minimal risk of contagion on board; and there's no reason why she and her husband can't go off into the mountains over there for a bit of peace and serenity.
I think there is a bigger risk with going through Heathrow and then on a 12-hour flight compared to a few hours on a bus/train but I could be totally wrong about that. Apparently they've started flying smaller planes over there because of low passenger numbers and the flights aren't that empty now. Imagine getting stuck next to someone coughing and sneezing for 12 hours. :eek:
The main concern isn't getting the virus, it's more the idea of being stuck over there if the situation changed for the worse quickly, or getting sick over there. Medical costs are no joke if your travel insurance won't cover you (and they've said they won't). This is her real concern. At least if she and/or her partner got sick at home, she speaks the language, got people around, is entitled to healthcare in the UK, etc.
She's been planning this trip for over a year and wanting to go all her life, so cancelling it wouldn't be an easy decision but the worst case scenario here is pretty bad, no?0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »The main concern isn't getting the virus, it's more the idea of being stuck over there if the situation changed for the worse quickly, or getting sick over there. Medical costs are no joke if your travel insurance won't cover you (and they've said they won't). This is her real concern. At least if she and/or her partner got sick at home, she speaks the language, got people around, is entitled to healthcare in the UK, etc.
She's been planning this trip for over a year and wanting to go all her life, so cancelling it wouldn't be an easy decision but the worst case scenario here is pretty bad, no?
The worst case scenario here is no worse than the dozens of honeymooners who've lost their lives in tragic circumstances in recent years, or anyone else going half way around the world and finding themselves in trouble. She's in exactly the same situation as all the Olympic athletes who are supposed to be heading over there in a few months.
If it means that much to her (and her husband-to-be) then she should go, taking sensible precautions on the journey and making the best of whatever facilities/attractions/events are still available.0 -
CelticRambler wrote: »The worst case scenario here is no worse than the dozens of honeymooners who've lost their lives in tragic circumstances in recent years, or anyone else going half way around the world and finding themselves in trouble. She's in exactly the same situation as all the Olympic athletes who are supposed to be heading over there in a few months.
If it means that much to her (and her husband-to-be) then she should go, taking sensible precautions on the journey and making the best of whatever facilities/attractions/events are still available.
It's not some kind of sudden natural disaster scenario like a tsunami or earthquake. She would be making the decision to travel abroad knowing there is a pandemic, and knowing that her insurance won't cover her if she ends up in hospital or quarantined there. Completely different to a normal holiday situation where you know something bad might happen but have no reason to think it would. I certainly wouldn't be able to relax and enjoy a holiday while I was worrying about every sneeze or cough in the vicinity, worrying about what I had touched and knowing I'd have to pay out of pocket for any expense incurred due to the pandemic.
I have no idea what Olympic athletes have to do with this at all. They are all insured and looked after through their federations. Sure, the Olympics might not even happen if things carry on the way they are.0 -
Have passed on all your suggestions and she's really grateful for them. She's especially loving the ideas for quirky accommodation in the UK!
I'm sure everyone knows that this has now been declared a pandemic, which to me makes it even worse if BA now won't refund anything. Most people's travel insurance will be void, making it extremely risky to travel but it seems to be a bit of a legal grey area. Most airlines who hadn't already offered a refund are offering one now but BA are still silent.0 -
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