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Irish traditions - those under threat or already extinct?

  • 05-02-2018 1:09pm
    #1
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭


    The Bridget's Cross thread got me thinking as to what traditions/practices are dying out or have already vanished with changing times.

    The desire for modern buildings means that the picture postcard thatched cottage is all but gone, mechanisation of farming with many farmers being self-sufficient means that the 'meitheal' is all but extinct and the creamery is no longer the meeting place it once was. Modern materials have reduced the need for tinsmithing/basket making.

    Are there others?


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Comments

  • #2
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    I strongly believe a thing that's been lost since a lot of older folk died off pre 2000 and Celtic Tiger is the social aspect of going on "cuaird"

    Basically in rural areas anyway people used to call to a neighbour's even miles away most nights for a chat and tea, play cards, etc

    I strongly believe this was a great thing for mental health as we know bring socially active is.

    I remember this craic even 10 years ago that meeting friends socially in their house just to talk wasn't "cool" so it was meet at the match or the pub

    One thing I noticed that the recession helped was it brought this back and it's going strong for a lot of younger lads who have transportation.

    My friends and I are late 20s and spend more social time at each others houses couple times week just talking and relaxing and you don't need money, compared to the pub

    I certainly hope it's happening in other places too I really believe it would help with people who feel isolated and depressed. The thought of going to a match or pub and meeting s crowd is tough compared to calling to see a close friend for a couple hours in comfort

    It doesn't even need to be your own age group, I do teh same with elderly people both relations and elderly friends

    As teh saying goes if you spend all your time around people your own age you'll never learn anything


  • #3
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    About 25 years ago I was working maintenance at a small farm for a guy who was in his 70’s at the time.

    He said when they were kids they were poor, everyone was poor - in monitory terms, but he went on to say that they had time for everything and everyone.

    Modern life he said that nobody was really poor any more - In monitory terms, but now people are time poor, people have no time to speak to each other, rushing about in an ever greater hurry to do something else but very little is spent talking and taking time to know the people around them.
    I think now of how much more time poor we are now, his predictions were spot on, people take very little time to meet and chat.

    Most of my family do it once a week, most of us decend on my mums house Sunday evenings, we have tea, talk about the week, it’s nice and I hate missing it.


  • #4
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    What about mummers? Anyone see them around, when I was young we used to do it but it was singing Christmas carols. There were also the occasional groups that done the old way (put on mini plays).


  • #5
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    I strongly believe a thing that's been lost since a lot of older folk died off pre 2000 and Celtic Tiger is the social aspect of going on "cuaird"

    Basically in rural areas anyway people used to call to a neighbour's even miles away most nights for a chat and tea, play cards, etc

    I think the 'men's sheds' concept is a sort of modern day equivalent of that, albeit more organised.
    Somewhere for men to meet, chat and do things that don't involve the pub.


    Are people still 'doing rounds' at holy wells and taking water away for curing animals these days?


  • #6
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Other examples of lost or rare traditions are salted fish on Christmas Eve.
    Killing the goose or chicken on Saint Martin's Day.
    The many Mayday traditions and so on.


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  • #7
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    I think the 'men's sheds' concept is a sort of modern day equivalent of that, albeit more organised.
    Somewhere for men to meet, chat and do things that don't involve the pub.

    Are people still 'doing rounds' at holy wells and taking water away for curing animals these days?

    In my locality there is a holy well and also a small lake. The well is visited regularly and water taken, but the patterns at the lake have not happened in at least the last 40-odd years. ‘Stations’ i.e. mass in a private house for the neighbouring community have not taken place since the early 1980’s.


  • #8
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    ‘Stations’ i.e. mass in a private house for the neighbouring community have not taken place since the early 1980’s.

    A local priest in my area was attempting to revive those with little take-up.

    I guess most younger people don't feel like letting in a bunch of strangers into the house and older people wouldn't be able for all the preparations of cleaning/painting/baking anymore. Also priests are declining in numbers now and under pressure with their normal duties let alone doing stations as well.


  • #9
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    It is indeed sad to see the passing of so much of our folk traditions. A previous poster mentioned about coming around to someone's house to play cards, even here the Irish game of 25, quite popular even in the recent past seem all be extinct.

    And even were our traditions are still popular like Halloween (and even St Patrick's Day) it's the bastardised American version we seem to adopt.

    However I'll try to inject some positivity into the thread: the St. Stephen's Day Wren Boys seems to have had a slight resurgence plus the wake is still hanging in there.


  • #10
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    However I'll try to inject some positivity into the thread: the St. Stephen's Day Wren Boys seems to have had a slight resurgence plus the wake is still hanging in there.

    That group in Dingle have been doing the Wren for quite some time, they get on the news every year.

    Poitin making. I recall vaguely comical Garda raids on poitin stills on RTE in the 80's.
    Any illegal hooch these days is probably made in vats in a farm shed or industrial unit rather than out on the bog. Mass produced, packaged and labelled to resemble a real brand.


  • #11
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    The Wren is still going strong my way without any decline

    Maybe the only difference is how many people/kids can play an instrument affects it?

    It's always the fiddle and likes playing kids doing it obviously

    Going learning the fiddle myself but anyone reading my posts I'm into the whole Irish and Celtic at large heritage


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  • #12
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    The Wren is still going strong my way without any decline

    Maybe the only difference is how many people/kids can play an instrument affects it?

    It's always the fiddle and likes playing kids doing it obviously

    Going learning the fiddle myself but anyone reading my posts I'm into the whole Irish and Celtic at large heritage

    When the neighbours' kids (well, they're adults now) used do it, all they did was dress up and sing, no instruments iirc. No-one at it now locally.

    Probably needs adults to organise and push the thing along now, what with the whole 'stay safe' thing.


  • #13
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    When the neighbours' kids (well, they're adults now) used do it, all they did was dress up and sing, no instruments iirc. No-one at it now locally.

    Probably needs adults to organise and push the thing along now, what with the whole 'stay safe' thing.

    Interesting its always been accompanied by fiddle, tin whistle, accordion and everything else my way


  • #14
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Approximately 100 years ago there was the Gaelic Revival, a sense of cultural awakening against a tide of Anglicisation. Does modern Ireland need a similar movement to kick-start a renewal of our national identity?


  • #15
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    Approximately 100 years ago there was the Gaelic Revival, a sense of cultural awakening against a tide of Anglicisation. Does modern Ireland need a similar movement to kick-start a renewal of our national identity?

    Funny enough language wise the Welsh have had theirs recently. 19% of Welsh people can speak it fluently, up form whatever it was in the 90s

    Take out non British from Wales and it's 21% of ethnic Welsh

    Sadly doesn't seem to be anything like it for Irish here only people whinging. The slave mentality as Sean McBride coined about the Irish


  • #16
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    In fact do Irish myths and legends get taught in schools anymore? I know it's not history but you'd expect cultural heritage would come under it

    I recently bought a few books on Irish myths and legends from a second hand shop

    I'd love to buy Lady Gregory's Irish myths and legends book with artist illustrations it looks feckin brilliant and she has practically ever bit and piece of Fionn MacChuamill, The Red Branch Knights etc

    It's feckin €80 on eBay tho


  • #17
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    Funny enough language wise the Welsh have had theirs recently. 19% of Welsh people can speak it fluently, up form whatever it was in the 90s

    Take out non British from Wales and it's 21% of ethnic Welsh

    Sadly doesn't seem to be anything like it for Irish here only people whinging. The slave mentality as Sean McBride coined about the Irish

    Always found Wales interesting in this regards: they seem to be the most culturally aware, in terms of their native language at least, yet the least politically free of all the countries of Ireland and Britain.
    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    In fact do Irish myths and legends get taught in schools anymore? I know it's not history but you'd expect cultural heritage would come under it

    I recently bought a few books on Irish myths and legends from a second hand shop

    I'd love to buy Lady Gregory's Irish myths and legends book with artist illustrations it looks feckin brilliant and she has practically ever bit and piece of Fionn MacChuamill, The Red Branch Knights etc

    It's feckin €80 on eBay tho

    I've wondered this myself. Any teachers out there or parents that could confirm? I have seen a lot of children's books, recently published, about Irish myths, legends and folklore.


  • #18
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Pixel Eater wrote: »

    I've wondered this myself. Any teachers out there or parents that could confirm? I have seen a lot of children's books, recently published, about Irish myths, legends and folklore.

    Why just children?

    I would have thought a lot of these legends would make great material for graphic novels for adults, if that's not being done already. You can leave the racy bits in, omitted from material intended for children.


  • #19
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Why just children?

    I would have thought a lot of these legends would make great material for graphic novels for adults, if that's not being done already. You can leave the racy bits in, omitted from material intended for children.

    2000AD had a comic years ago called Sláine based on Cú Chulainn. I'm sure there is modern versions. Also there's a rumour of a Cú Chulainn film with Fassbender (not sure how true they are).

    Anyhow I asked about children as that's what the original poster inquired about. Plus schools were the usual place people would be taught about such things.


  • #20
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    I would also be curious if there was a deliberate change due to the department of education or if it was more natural. In my old primary school when the old (fashioned) headmaster retired and was replaced by a new, young, 'blow-in', there was a huge change in the ethos of the school but whether that was due to deliberate policy or simply due to the new personality was never clear to me.


  • #21
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,975 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I would also be curious if there was a deliberate change due to the department of education or if it was more natural. In my old primary school when the old (fashioned) headmaster retired and was replaced by a new, young, 'blow-in', there was a huge change in the ethos of the school but whether that was due to deliberate policy or simply due to the new personality was never clear to me.

    Maybe its a general push to modernise Ireland?
    There are still a lot of elements of old Ireland about, Church influence etc, and perhaps its not a bad thing if we leave some of them in the past?


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  • #22
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Maybe its a general push to modernise Ireland?
    There are still a lot of elements of old Ireland about, Church influence etc, and perhaps its not a bad thing if we leave some of them in the past?

    That's the classic throwing the baby out with the bathwater approach. We need - rather have in many cases - modernised Ireland but we don't have to rid ourselves of all our own tradition; old and new can work together harmoniously in most regards. Besides an oppressive church is hardly the same as some local folk art or custom.


  • #23
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Maybe its a general push to modernise Ireland?
    There are still a lot of elements of old Ireland about, Church influence etc, and perhaps its not a bad thing if we leave some of them in the past?

    Modernising Ireland such as religious freedom is grand throwing out and ignoring your historical myths and legends is a downright fcuking disgrace

    I'd love to see what's teh story with the same in Japan, China , etc and see

    I'd swear the UK is as bad as here too in regards to King Arthur and Merkin, etc

    Ya know what wouldn't you be nearly tempted to buy Lady Gregory's book and offer to do readings for groups young and old at local library's and community centres

    I remember when I was in primary school we even had plays for several primary schools in the parish center. Where a group did the Salmon of knowledge and that as well as certain Fionn and Oisin bits


  • #24
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    Any teachers here?

    https://www.scoilnet.ie/primary/theme-pages/history/ireland-long-ago/

    Salmon of knowledge is listed, is that official or a by choice resource?

    I also noticed UCC do a Irish myths and legends course I don't know if it's a good thing to have it or bad that you need a third level optional course to teach it


  • #25
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    I believe an increase in people defining themselves via a certain type of 'lifestyle' eg defining themselves not by who they are - but by what they eat etc "I am a vegan" . Traditions get thrown into the ditch in the interest of slavishly following whatever the latest fad is ...


  • #26
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    2000AD had a comic years ago called Sláine based on Cú Chulainn. I'm sure there is modern versions. Also there's a rumour of a Cú Chulainn film with Fassbender (not sure how true they are).

    Anyhow I asked about children as that's what the original poster inquired about. Plus schools were the usual place people would be taught about such things.

    Jim Fitzpatrick’s Book of Conquest is a retelling of the Book of Invasions. Some great art in it
    Something like Michael Fassbender’s propised Cuchullain film would be a good boost.
    Some elements of Game of Thrones seem to reference the tuatha de Danann, and Martin has said he see the others as almost sidhe like. The book and shows popularity could be piggy backed on to show how epic Irish mythology is.


  • #27
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    Fassbender has been trying to get that film off the ground for years so don't know if it will happen

    Historical wise Di Caprio was trying to get a Brain Ború biopic in his driving the Vikings out on film but don't know what the story is now


  • #28
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    Fassbender has been trying to get that film off the ground for years so don't know if it will happen

    Historical wise Di Caprio was trying to get a Brain Ború biopic in his driving the Vikings out on film but don't know what the story is now

    Thank god that didn't happen, the Boru story is a bit more complicated than him saving Ireland from Vikings.


  • #29
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    NIMAN wrote: »
    Maybe its a general push to modernise Ireland?
    There are still a lot of elements of old Ireland about, Church influence etc, and perhaps its not a bad thing if we leave some of them in the past?

    Modernising Ireland such as religious freedom is grand throwing out and ignoring your historical myths and legends is a downright fcuking disgrace

    I'd love to see what's teh story with the same in Japan, China , etc and see

    I'd swear the UK is as bad as here too in regards to King Arthur and Merkin, etc

    Ya know what wouldn't you be nearly tempted to buy Lady Gregory's book and offer to do readings for groups young and old at local library's and community centres

    I remember when I was in primary school we even had plays for several primary schools in the parish center. Where a group did the Salmon of knowledge and that as well as certain Fionn and Oisin bits
    Jurgen Klopp wrote: »
    Any teachers here?

    https://www.scoilnet.ie/primary/theme-pages/history/ireland-long-ago/

    Salmon of knowledge is listed, is that official or a by choice resource?

    I also noticed UCC do a Irish myths and legends course I don't know if it's a good thing to have it or bad that you need a third level optional course to teach it
    Irish mythology at University level is just teaching people tales, it is a much deeper analysis of Irish ancient literature.

    Maybe its a general push to modernise Ireland?
    There are still a lot of elements of old Ireland about, Church influence etc, and perhaps its not a bad thing if we leave some of them in the past?
    That would leave us all considerably poorer and I mean both.


  • #30
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    robp wrote: »
    Irish mythology at University level is just teaching people tales, it is a much deeper analysis of Irish ancient literature.



    That would leave us all considerably poorer and I mean both.

    What I mean is you'd think they'd have some of the tales and story's as a compulsory part of a primary school history subject. I mean ok it's not fact but I remember it as part of our history books and that was only 15 years ago. The salmon of knowledge, Cú Chulainn and things such as the "Cattle Raid of Cooley" as well as Tír na Nog etc

    They used only be a couple pages each in an otherwise big book ya know it was a great thing like


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  • #31
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Can anyone list out the traditions that are waning/gone in your area.

    I'm a Dub but fondly remember the neighbours (mammies) all meeting up in the morning to go to Mass together and then get the "messages". Kids would go ape after school playing rounders or making a swing on a lampost (so dangerous now!) Playing beds. RelieveIO, knocking on doors and running away, and so on. I know they sound mad but that was my childhood.

    No kid is allowed out of sight now ever so that may be a factor also as to why these street games are no longer.

    The recent widow wore all black for six months after the husband died. Don't know if the man had to as they all died before the women anyway. But if a close relative died the men wore a black diamond patch on the clothes of the upper arm. Mirrors were covered when someone died, and a white card with black surround was placed on the front door where someone died. Obviously not a good idea to advertise it now though!

    Newly christened babies were taken in their prams around the neighbours and money was placed in the pram. We always snitched a few bob before bringing the spoils home!

    There are lots more. But traditions will be memories more or less now, as life has moved on.


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