Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

CramCycle · 07-01-2015 6:27pm

In all seriousness though it is a poor advertisement for the quality of person behind the wheel of some vehicles that the only reason they would attempt to either avoid another vehicle/person or have due consideration for another persons safety is the fear that the person is a member of law enforcement.

The mind boggles

BostonB · 07-01-2015 7:09pm

Is there any data to support that collisions between motor traffic and cyclists decrease when Hi Viz is worn.

CatFromHue · 07-01-2015 7:14pm

CramCycle wrote: »

In all seriousness though it is a poor advertisement for the quality of person behind the wheel of some vehicles that the only reason they would attempt to either avoid another vehicle/person or have due consideration for another persons safety is the fear that the person is a member of law enforcement.

The mind boggles

From my experience it just stops you beeping them when they wiz out of nowhere with no regard for the rules of the road :pac::pac:

Leroy42 · 07-01-2015 7:34pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

From my experience it just stops you beeping them when they wiz out of nowhere with no regard for the rules of the road :pac::pac:

Why would it stop you doing that, garda have to obey the rules as well.

tomasrojo · 07-01-2015 8:15pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why would it stop you doing that, garda have to obey the rules as well.

I think you know the answer! (Similar answer to: Why can't I remind them that I pay their salary?)

tomasrojo · 07-01-2015 8:16pm

BostonB wrote: »

Is there any data to support that collisions between motor traffic and cyclists decrease when Hi Viz is worn.

I don't think so. The blogger Bez of Beyond the Kerb was asking the same question on Twitter, but I don't think he got anything solid back.

monument · 07-01-2015 8:39pm

BostonB wrote: »

Is there any data to support that collisions between motor traffic and cyclists decrease when Hi Viz is worn.

Not unless you count a flawed study funded by the makers of a high-vis jacket, no, and there's data to suggest it has no benefits, but it indicates that the 'police'-type jackets have some effect.

Beasty · 07-01-2015 8:55pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why would it stop you doing that, garda have to obey the rules as well.

Do they

Thought they could pretty much ignore all road traffic law provided they are in pursuit of their duties

Leroy42 · 07-01-2015 9:29pm

Beasty wrote: »

Do they Thought they could pretty much ignore all road traffic law provided they are in pursuit of their duties

The garda are still bound by the road traffic laws, but can't temporarily suspend this requirement should it be required in the interest of law/public safety.

They must cede to regular road users/pedestrians etc unless given permission to do so (most normal people will allow a blue light flashing vehicle take the junction first but there is no requirement in law for this). This is my understanding and happy to be corrected.

They can ignore traffic law once nobody pulls them up on it. Since the poster said he wouldn't spot them I doubt they had sirens/lights balzing and therefore were not in pursuit of their duties.

Whether you can get away with pointing all this out to a Garda is another matter entirely

CramCycle · 07-01-2015 10:38pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

They must cede to regular road users/pedestrians etc unless given permission to do so (most normal people will allow a blue light flashing vehicle take the junction first but there is no requirement in law for this). This is my understanding and happy to be corrected.

Sort of correct, a blue light is basically like a giant Please sign, asking for permission to proceed as well as asking you to please get out of the way. You can ignore it but you can also be charged with a multiple of other offences if you do as you could be costing someone there life or similar. Just because you don't know what your doing does not mean your not guilty.

In relation to Gardai as opposed to any other emergency service, they are exempt from the road traffic act while in pursuit of their duties. Which means they don't have to ask, and they don't have to follow the rules. The issue that I have seen on other threads is what the phrase in pursuit of their duties mean. Bike cops presumably use it to cycle on the pavement while on duty but many argue that it applies to active pursuit of their duties i.e. on a call out/chasing someone etc. but then they don't have to wear seat belts at any time in case it hinders a sudden call to duty. Some argue once they are on the clock they are in pursuit of their duties, I certainly wouldn't argue semantics with a Garda over it.

On my phone so will dig out the SI later

monument · 07-01-2015 11:26pm

Road Traffic Act 2004

Exemptions for emergency vehicles.

27.—Requirements under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2004 relating to vehicles and requirements, restrictions and prohibitions relating to the driving and use of vehicles, other than those provided under sections 49 and 50 (inserted by sections 10 and 11, respectively, of the Act of 1994), 51A and 52 (inserted by sections 49 and 50, respectively, of the Act of 1968) and 53 of the Principal Act and sections 12, 13, 14 and 15 of the Act of 1994, do not apply to a driver of a fire brigade vehicle, an ambulance or the use by a member of the Garda Síochána of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member or a person driving or using a vehicle under the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána, where such use does not endanger the safety of road users.

ROK ON · 09-01-2015 7:56pm

Have posts been deleted from this thread? There was a post from Galwaycyclists last night containing a link to an RSA publication on the RSA website. It listed how much has been spent on hi-viz and listed from whom the products had been procured.

I responded to this informative post with a question.

The original post and my question no longer seem to be here.
If they were deleted I would like to know why please? Seems to be the height of bad manners not to contact a person if deleting the post. The post in question contained factual information provided by the RSA.
In fact it was a mod that initially highlighted the locational proximity between where the RSA are based and the company where hi-viz are procured.

magicbastarder · 09-01-2015 8:28pm

have you checked that it's not been moved to a different thread?

dashcamdanny · 09-01-2015 8:38pm

monument wrote: »

Not unless you count a flawed study funded by the makers of a high-vis jacket, no, and there's data to suggest it has no benefits, but it indicates that the 'police'-type jackets have some effect.

I did not think a common sense thing would need an extensive study.

monument · 09-01-2015 9:46pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I did not think a common sense thing would need an extensive study.

Are you trying to claim that Ireland and other countries which heavily push high-vis for normal walking and cycling are good at coming to reasoned common sense?

Take just a few examples in Ireland:

A large percentage of the population and system gets caught up in massive property bubble
A notable (even if overall small) percentage of the population buy houses far away from their homes and give out about how long they have to commute
In the capital, a clearly predicted massive property shortage follows the bust after the boom and the public backlash isn't up there as one of the main backlashes against the government
Urban areas are plagued by car traffic mainly being used for trips under 7km and this causes major economic and health issues

Anyway, this article puts the argument against common sense far better than I ever could: Common Sense Is Neither Common nor Sense

When searching for the above link (which I had found before), I also found these quotes from people who were more intelligent and more wiser than I'll ever be:

“Common sense is the most widely shared commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it.”

― René Descartes

“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.”

― Thomas Paine

Iwannahurl · 12-01-2015 9:45pm

It didn't take a lot to convince these chickens. Puns at the ready...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spfy_uolGB8

Meanwhile, in the more complicated world of humans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I04opivmgic

RainyDay · 13-01-2015 12:07am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It didn't take a lot to convince these chickens.

Why?

Velotogo · 13-01-2015 12:25am

Saw a bloke crossing at the pedestrian lights beside St. Laurence's College near Cherrywood last Wednesday, wearing what appeared to be a completely reflective jacket. It had an almost UFO quality about it - very eerie. Google led me to this www. provizsports. com/en_fr/ (leave out the gaps, I'm a newbie).

Velotogo · 13-01-2015 12:31am

YouTube: www. youtube. com/watch?v=etEozvmdJAA (leave out the gaps and go to about 1.02 mark)

CatFromHue · 13-01-2015 3:15am

I saw a fella wearing one of them before too and yeah they really stand out!

Not massively expensive either!

Pinch Flat · 13-01-2015 8:53am

Halfords have them. You'd want to be clinically blind not to see them at night when they reflect, but then again nothing surprises me with the dullards on our roads. My own experience of 'not been seen' when hit is a 80 lumen tear light and 1/2 watt strobe. Oh and a hi vis bag cover.

Lumen · 13-01-2015 10:13am

Velotogo wrote: »

Saw a bloke crossing at the pedestrian lights beside St. Laurence's College near Cherrywood last Wednesday, wearing what appeared to be a completely reflective jacket. It had an almost UFO quality about it - very eerie. Google led me to this www. provizsports. com/en_fr/ (leave out the gaps, I'm a newbie).

Judging by the reviews, like most hi-vis jackets they're only useful for slow cycling as they turn into a sweat chamber if you put any effort in.

Iwannahurl · 13-01-2015 10:33am

RainyDay wrote: »

Why?

...did the chicken cross the road?

CatFromHue · 13-01-2015 1:32pm

Lumen wrote: »

Judging by the reviews, like most hi-vis jackets they're only useful for slow cycling as they turn into a sweat chamber if you put any effort in.

They do a sleeve less and a vest type version, dunno if they're sweat chambers too though.

Iwannahurl · 18-01-2015 7:38pm

RainyDay wrote: »

... The developing culture that cyclists have to 'look weird' - hi-vis and lycra and helmets and more ... We need to make cycling accessible for ordinary people wearing ordinary clothes.

Just found this report within the past hour. It's from the Transport & Health Study Group and dates back to March 2014. I don't believe it has been posted previously.

The role of bicycle sharing systems in normalising the image of cycling: An observational study of London cyclists.

Goodman et at, Journal of Transport & Health, March 2014

Bicycle sharing systems are increasingly popular around the world and have the potential to increase the visibility of people cycling in everyday clothing. This may in turn help normalise the image of cycling, and reduce perceptions that cycling is 'risky' or 'only for sporty people'.

This paper sought to compare the use of specialist cycling clothing between users of the London bicycle sharing system (LBSS) and cyclists using personal bicycles. To do this, we observed 3594 people on bicycles at 35 randomly-selected locations across central and inner London.

The 592 LBSS users were much less likely to wear helmets (16% vs. 64% among personal-bicycle cyclists), high-visibility clothes (11% vs. 35%) and sports clothes (2% vs. 25%). In total, 79% of LBSS users wore none of these types of specialist cycling clothing, as compared to only 30% of personal-bicycle cyclists. This was true of male and female LBSS cyclists alike (all p>0.25 for interaction).

We conclude that bicycle sharing systems may not only encourage cycling directly, by providing bicycles to rent, but also indirectly, by increasing the number and diversity of cycling 'role models' visible.

This paper, and its key message that cycling is a normal and healthy activity, ought to be circulated widely. Go forth and multiply.

RainyDay · 25-01-2015 10:41pm

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I think the whole point of the "Polite" bit is that it can easily be mistaken for "Police" at a glance.

Just saw the owner of the UK business that makes the Polite jackets on UK Dragons Den. Her main business is hi-vis stuff for horsey folks. She claims to have approval from the UK Assoc of Chief Police Officers for the Polite design.

Macy0161 · 25-01-2015 10:51pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Just saw the owner of the UK business that makes the Polite jackets on UK Dragons Den. Her main business is hi-vis stuff for horsey folks. She claims to have approval from the UK Assoc of Chief Police Officers for the Polite design.

Its possibly only a few motorbike riders (as it's always stillorgan, goats town, clonskeagh), but every time I've spotted bikes with these in recent weeks theyve been doing an illegal manoeuvre!

Tenzor07 · 25-01-2015 11:07pm

On a related matter, a cyclist was the fatal victim of a hit and run incident:

motorist-fined-10-000-for-driving-away-from-scene-of-fatal-incident-

Mr Fahy told the court the deceased man, who was single and lived alone, was wearing dark clothing at the time and was not wearing a high-visibility jacket.
Judge Rory McCabe said the interests of justice would not be served by imposing a custodial sentence and he imposed the maximum fine of €10,000.
He disqualified the accused for two years, taking charges of not having insurance or a driving licence at the time into account.

Pinch Flat · 26-01-2015 12:49am

Macy0161 wrote: »

Its possibly only a few motorbike riders (as it's always stillorgan, goats town, clonskeagh), but every time I've spotted bikes with these in recent weeks theyve been doing an illegal manoeuvre!

Got buzzed by them climbing the wicklow way on 3rd jan last - it was ironic that they passed so close to me and at great speed - certainly in excess of the speed limit and on frosty roads

CramCycle · 26-01-2015 8:41am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

On a related matter, a cyclist was the fatal victim of a hit and run incident:

Not wearing hi vis but the car who overtook him just before not only avoided him but seen him fly into the air in his rear view mirror.

Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

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