What makes a premium car/brand?

fancy pigeon · 19-03-2019 10:43am

Well, going by what's round the house... This will be a premium car vs premium brand debate, my own view of course

Premium brand: long established manufacturer of high quality vehicles
Premium car: a car that's manufactured to a high standard, not necessarily from a premium brand

1985 W126, lovely plush leather seats, a thud from the doors to rival a bank vault, a reassuring quality feel to the ignition as you turn the key, a crisp smooth tick from the 2.7 L engine (yes, it's 2746cc) a very refined, easy to drive car which changes gears seamlessly (having a 500SE once, it was even quieter. Goodness could that car move...). Ridiculously roomy car with actual wood inside, precisely put together (ignoring the obvious rust issues). A true premium car, from a premium brand

1989 525i: a solidly put together car, bitterly over engineered in places. Lots of toys for the time, a very rewarding car to drive that remains planted in the corners that gives plenty of feedback despite it's steering box setup. Another premium car from a premium brand

1989 Z32: here's an odd one. A (once) well kitted coupé, lavishly equipped with multi electric adjusted seats, a computerized climate control system, twin hybrid turbos (from the factory), rear wheel steering, blown bulb indicator, targa tops and other wonderful stuff I can't remember. A very refined car when cruising along, almost silent apart from the tyres rolling off the road and a bit of wind noise. Another overly engineered complex thirsty car with fixings and brackets everywhere that also uses real wood. To me, this is a premium car that isn't from a premium manufacturer

W202's: there are 3 of them: 1995, 1998 and 2000. The 1995 one is the most comfortable of the 3, has squishy but supportive seats. The 1998 and 2000 just aren't as comfortable, the seats are much firmer despite both being Elegance trim level! There is a very noticeable difference between how a 1993 to 1995 W202 are put together against a 1998 (Q3 1997 if you're an anorak) onwards car: it's like Mercedes cheaped out with a lot of the trim pieces and fixings. Covers would have extra snug fixings and tabs that would allow the part to fit precisely, plastic covers molded to obfuscate bolts; none of which would be on a 1998 revision. Premium manufacturer losing it's grip on premium cars...?!

Car manufacturers have caught up with the premium brands though. Dare I say the 607 is a more comfortable car than the W126... Seeing as I have both at the house, I can form a very unpopular but valid opinion

Badge snobs: don't get hung up on my opinion, your hard earned snobbery easily overrules my humble opinion. Always let the children win, that's the adult thing to do

charcosull · 19-03-2019 11:08am

Colleague of mine bought a brand new C class. Actually cried when she found out it was a renault diesel. Tried to return it.
Sums up the snobbery and perceived premium status.
Supposed to be a very good engine from what I hear.

CorkMan_ · 19-03-2019 11:20am

I have a Citroen C6. It's definitely not a premium brand but it is certainly a premium car. But once people see the Citroen badge they don't see premium. Which imo just reinforces badge snobbery.

ednwireland · 19-03-2019 11:30am

its amazing the spec levels in modern cars though just replaced the old battered low spec 05 skoda with a kia ceed and it has cruise control , speed limiter, bluetooth, mp3 and ipod socket, 3 12v sockets, reversing sensors, led DRL's, folding wing mirrors most of which you wouldnt have seen on a lower spec car until recently.

i would never buy a bmw or merc jsut dont like the look of them (and the fact i drove a 520 in the late nineties and got horrendous backache after an hour most uncomfortable car ive been in)

19-03-2019 11:46am

If you want a reliable car, look at what the taxi drivers have. They are either Octavia, Superb, Avensis or Prius. Had an Octavia myself, incredibly robust and reliable motor and if you want you can go for luxury trim. I had an old savings bufing up which I had to close when Ravi pulled out, had the price of a little Lexus CT200, I just love it’s refinement and safety features, especially the brake assist. It’s got the Prius hybrid engine system, which has a reputation for reliability even if it’s “old” technology now.

CrankyHaus · 19-03-2019 2:17pm

The best way to answer "what makes a premium brand" is to compare the mass and premium brands of the same manufacturer: what does a lexus have that a toyota doesn't? Or an Acura or Infiniti that a Honda or Nissan don't? Or even what does an Audi have that a Skoda won't?

No doubt some will sneer that some (or all) of those brands aren't "true" premium brands but they've all managed to find enough customers who disagree. A premium brand is anything you can get enough people to pay premium prices for.

Mad_maxx · 19-03-2019 3:58pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s a fact that a lot of people who spend big money on things aren’t necessarily clued in on what they’re buying. Not just cars.

I don’t know anything about ovens, but if I needed one and could afford a more expensive one, I’d probably buy one without knowing what makes a Neff better than a Beko. I’d just assume it’s better.

Don't ever take that approach with dishwashers

Trust me, the 450 euro one is just as good :pac:

Wibbs · 19-03-2019 7:21pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Or an Acura or Infiniti that a Honda or Nissan don't?

Well in the States anyway the only difference between a Honda and an Acura is the badge. And price tag. Though that illustrates a large part of the difference. Less so nowadays, but I've been on a few American based forums down the years and the number of Americans who would get wound up, even angry at the suggestion that their Acura wasn't a Honda. No it was different and special. Even when you pointed out the non US Honda badged version of their Acura had more features and was more expensive elsewhere.

carsfan2 · 19-03-2019 8:59pm

With platform sharing and parts sharing that manufacturers now do to save development costs the lines get very blurred..
The Lamborghini urus is an Audi q8 platform albeit with a bespoke engine. Bentley bentayga is a q7 platform.The list goes on and on. I think it is marketing and snob value that drive these purchases by and large.

Tuco88 · 19-03-2019 9:33pm

I have a Audi A4 its your typical 2L tdi, S-line Quattro. I buy a new car "2 years old new" every 8 years so.

Had Ford Focus before that, its an excellent car still in the family.
Had a Peugeot before that great engine, bollox of a body and electrics tho.

The reason I when for the above...

The build quality and reliability it has. And above all its a nice car to drive.

Opel insignia? Yeah sorry, id rather take an old restored B5 A4 or 95 Corrolla imo.

A premium car to me would be BMW M3, RS4 even a Focus RS so on....

Big Petrols, the premium is in the wallet aka running cost.

pippip · 19-03-2019 10:07pm

For me its in the small details. I went from a 02 Audi A4 to a 08 Ford Mondeo and here's a few things I've noticed.

Fuel Gauge - As you drive around the Mondeo gauge can vary drastically, it can be telling me anywhere from 0 to 50km in the tank when low. Slope of driveway, banking motorways and speed bumps all throw the reading. Audi was always accurate and wouldn't fluctuate.

Outside Temp - If its 5c outside the Mondeo will be accurate once moving but sit in rush hour traffic and same temp can jump to 15c. Audi would always tell correct temp no matter what.

Warnings - Audi used to throw up warnings for a range of items, which exact bulb was gone, brake pads wearing, low oil, oil pressure. Mondeo hasn't alot of these and what it does are more vague.

These small things aren't the sort of things you see in the brochures or sales ads but would definitely influence my view of both brands.

Lord Nikon · 20-03-2019 2:08am

Credit is so readily available now, you can have premium brand quite easily on finance/PCP/lease. Years ago, if you wanted something nice, you had to save for it.

V8 Interceptor · 20-03-2019 2:19am

Widdensushi wrote: »

Going by the posts so far audi seems to be seen as a premium brand ?I would never see them as up there with BMW,Mercedes, Volvo etc.

I would've thought Audi would be above Volvo surely?

StudentDad · 20-03-2019 2:41am

This is kind of an aside. Anyway, for me owning a premium brand car is really a way for some people to say, 'hey, look what I can afford.' Grand if that's what rocks your boat. Go for it. If I had that kind of money, I'd rather spend it on something a bit more meaningful. I've been in a few premium brand cars over the years and frankly I've never felt the need to own one and there is no way in hell I'd lock myself into a HP or pcp agreement just to have one in the driveway. That said I know a few people who wouldn't be seen dead in anything other than their brand. It strikes me as a bit odd. Especially when I see a nice car parked on the street, only a few years old and the cheapest of cheap tyres on it. If you can't afford decent tyres, that's not a good start.

Heres Johnny · 20-03-2019 7:57am

We've 2 cars seen as premium in the household. A 530d m-sport and an a6 s-line.
Both auto. Both full leather. Both tiptronic/paddles for the gearbox. Both big comfortable cruisers. Both cost 20k last year incidentally, both 2014 cars we didn't buy either new.
I'd argue the 5 series and the a6 are a cut above what's on offer from the other popular makes in Ireland with brand snobbery most manufacturers can't market and sell anything over 45k. But I'd struggle to think of a Kia, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai on the road in Ireland that's overall as impressive as either car named above.
I will say however that the other vag cars in the passat and superb are close.
Most will be manual though. And 1.6d in a lot of cases.

CrankyHaus · 20-03-2019 7:15pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Well in the States anyway the only difference between a Honda and an Acura is the badge. And price tag. Though that illustrates a large part of the difference. Less so nowadays, but I've been on a few American based forums down the years and the number of Americans who would get wound up, even angry at the suggestion that their Acura wasn't a Honda. No it was different and special. Even when you pointed out the non US Honda badged version of their Acura had more features and was more expensive elsewhere.

That's gas, but not surprising.
I mentioned Acura and Infiniti to highlight how the definition of premium can vary. The yanks will accept something as premium if it's marketed and specced as such, just look at some of the stuff Mercury used to sell. European buyers are more discerning, or snobbish depending on your point of view, and with the exception of Lexus and maybe now Tesla the list of premium brands here has been a closed book.

MTBD · 20-03-2019 7:42pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

That's gas, but not surprising.
I mentioned Acura and Infiniti to highlight how the definition of premium can vary. The yanks will accept something as premium if it's marketed and specced as such, just look at some of the stuff Mercury used to sell. European buyers are more discerning, or snobbish depending on your point of view, and with the exception of Lexus and maybe now Tesla the list of premium brands here has been a closed book.

I don't agree with that. I think Mercury, but more so Lincoln, used to sell because they were traditionally an American luxury brand that could complete with the best European stuff. They dropped off in quality in the 70's and 80's, which allowed the competitors to come in. And now Mercury is dead and Lincoln wouldn't be that popular anymore.

Americans are much more open minded to new brands and have taken to cars like Infiniti and Lexus because their products are pretty damn good. The Kia Stinger for example is selling really well iver there but no one in Europe will buy them. Lexus in my view make better cars than Audi and BMW but they can barely sell them in Europe. Americans traditionally don't tolerate the crap reliability of some European brands, hence Volkswagen always struggled there and have a (well deserved) reputation for unreliability. Audi, despite their efforts still aren't considered a real luxury brand by many in the states.

I think Americans generally consider Mercedes-Benz and Lexus the two top dogs in the luxury car segment. And in my view that is the correct order..

Philb76 · 20-03-2019 10:09pm

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

Heres Johnny · 21-03-2019 10:20am

Philb76 wrote: »

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

That's the truth!

SBPhoto · 21-03-2019 11:23am

Philb76 wrote: »

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

For what make of Car??

Wishbone Ash · 21-03-2019 10:46pm

CorkMan_ wrote: »

I have a Citroen C6. It's definitely not a premium brand but it is certainly a premium car. But once people see the Citroen badge they don't see premium. Which imo just reinforces badge snobbery.

Not all of us. The C6 is a seriously impressive car and would impress me way more than any Merc, BMW etc. They are also very rare (although I saw one yesterday). How many Boardsies can say they drive around in the same car as a president of a prominent European country?

Philb76 · 21-03-2019 11:29pm

SBPhoto wrote: »

Philb76 wrote: »

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

For what make of Car??

Friends Audi an a6 few years ago

Idbatterim · 21-03-2019 11:33pm

Philb76 wrote: »

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

Lol! Or do it for fifty odd euro yourself. I’m not saying I’d do it on a newer car due to resale value, but there comes a point where paying some obscene amount for an apprentice to change your oil, is just a tad wasteful...

maddness · 23-03-2019 11:57am

carsfan2 wrote: »

A comment on another thread as to how main stream car makers are offering the exact same if not better product than what are considered “premium” manufacturers like Mercedes, BMW, Audi got me wondering what makes a car premium.
When I was younger premium cars were more expensive but better built and offered equipment not available on others cars. They could have bigger engines if desired and were not as common. They also held their value better than run of the mill cars.

Nowadays it seems the majority of cars are reliable and well built. They offer the same equipment as premium and a multitude of engine options.
All new cars lose a chunk in depreciation regardless of manufacturer too.
Finance packages make all cars more attainable nowadays too and premium brands are as common as any other cars on the road.
Some premium brands have big glass palaces to sell you their cars but does this influence us?
What are people’s feelings as to what makes a car or brand premium or upmarket nowadays? Is it snob value alone or is a merc etc really a better car?

When I was growing up in the 80’s very few people drove cars like Bmw’s and Mercedes and there really was a big difference in quality between the average car like an Opel Ascona or a Ford Sierra. Also rarity made them that bit more special.
I think that all changed forever in the 00’s as the premium brands made cheaper cars and car finance became more available so if you drove a BMW it was nothing special anymore.
Obviously large 6 & 8 cylinder salons are not really sold in number any more and the vast majority are 2.0 four cylinder diesels.
If you look at it objectively a 520d is still a nicer place to be than a non premium 2.0 diesel but the gap is much closer than it once was. Dynamically the difference is minimal or none.

Wishbone Ash · 23-03-2019 12:29pm

maddness wrote: »

When I was growing up in the 80’s very few people drove cars like Bmw’s and Mercedes and there really was a big difference in quality between the average car like an Opel Ascona or a Ford Sierra. Also rarity made them that bit more special....

In the early 1980's I was a pump attendant at a busy forecourt. The vast majority of customers had mundane 'everyday' cars. Funny I don't recall any 3 or 5 series BMW's but just the magnificent 6 series especially the 635!. The others that stood out were the Mercedes W116 series and the Jaguar 5.4 V12. The premium brands really were poles apart from the great unwashed then.

Old diesel · 23-03-2019 1:19pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Would it be safe to say that the lower/medium brands are making better cars than they did years ago, and the top brands are making lesser cars than they did a few decades ago?

This would close the gap.

This i think sums up the situation very well.

But I would add the caveat of "by the standards of the era".

A 2019 E class is a superior car to a 1983 W123.

However in the W123 era the Mercedes had a much bigger lead in quality vs normal brands of the 1983 era.

In 2019 however a Skoda Superb is MUCH closer to today's E class Merc then the 1983 Skoda Estelle is to a 1983 W123.

In the late 80s the case for going for a 2nd hand W123 for the best quality vs a new normal brand was very strong if you were keen on a top quality car.

Carina IIs were great but for some drivers might feel very lightweight in the bodywork - especially the way doors close. A lightweight feel*.

The Mercedes would feel extremely substantial*.

*in reality the Carina was a lot closer to the Merc in long term ownership then this commentry implies. Says a lot for the Carina in fact that you could even mention its greatness while simultaneously talking W123 Merc quality

donkey balls · 29-03-2019 12:38am

I am on my forth car and in my mid 40s first car I had was a Fiesta second one was a Primera, The reason I got rid of the Primera at the time was that it was a 15 year old car nothing wrong with it as I had it serviced regularly.
But trying to insure it was a nightmare due to the age of the car, Years ago while doing the zero hour contract work I would pass by an Audi garage and would say to myself that some day hopefully if I got a good full time job that I would buy one.
So the day came that I got a really good job and about two weeks into working at my company, I saw a nice A4 for sale so I organized a test drive and decided there and then to buy it the car was so comfortable and refined compared to the Primera.
I have since moved on to the A6 Quattro and love it, I am not one for looking down their nose at what people drive smaller cars as I once did myself and the aul lad still drives a fiesta.

What makes a premium car/brand?

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