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Poor Party Wall Sound Isolation

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13

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    I forgot to come back and update here. Just got the sound test done in our place, €738 for it to get done, by an actual good engineer.

    Anyway, our wall meets the regulations standard so the builder will do nothing for us as his job is done.

    We now need to go down the route of soundproofing ourselves which is going to be quite pricey. Need to tear down the plasterboard wall Infront of the block wall and build it up again.

    Regulations in Ireland are a joke. Right now I can hear my neighbour talking to his wife in bed, not shouting, talking. Making me consider just selling the house and be done with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    It's absolutely mental how you can clearly hear people talking and it passes the test decibel wise but at the same time isn't "reasonable sound isolation" which is what they say is required. When my girlfriend sleeps in the spare room to escape my snoring she's woken up by the kid next door coughing. Meanwhile other houses in the estate hear absolutely nothing at all, including a newborn baby.

    I can't hear my girlfriend on work calls in the kitchen when I'm in bed on the other side of the house but when I'm in my office I can hear the neighbours opening and closing their front door. It doesn't make sense.

    On the plus side I'm starting to get used to it, almost 3 years later.

    When the developer finally got back to me to arrange a sound test my neighbour got aggressive and hostile towards me, the council ignored the developer too. I look forward to having a baby in the near future and having them listen to the screaming crying every night :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭imp1




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The front door opening and closing causes vibrations which travel through the structure of the houses. Sound travels better through solids than through air, so your girlfriend talking normally is less likely to reach you as the sound is dissipated by the air.

    Likewise, the kid coughing probably has the head of their bed right up against the party wall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    We got two spots tested, bedroom and living room. Loving room was 57 DnT and the Bedroom was 59 DnT. The acceptable limits was >= 53DnT.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭imp1


    That is a pretty good result, difficult to believe you can hear normal conversation through a wall that achieves these numbers, I would be very hesitant to go tearing into anything at haste.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    I can't hear exact words from their conversation but the mumbling of it. Just enough to drive me a bit mad when I'm trying to get to sleep. Neighbours stay up late and talk for ages, which of course they're entitled to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭horse7


    https://pickapro.ie/sound-proofing/Cunas?gclid=CjwKCAiAleOeBhBdEiwAfgmXf3ZVTVcc789osoRKJ43pEHqJ9oCcD5rBZ3chSGPqG0cCLTKuqQjxexoChiQQAvD_BwE

    Have you tried a professional company,. Just pulled this up on a Google.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    They dont like doing difficult cases from my contact with them



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Professional companies will only really engage if you're committing to a proper job which generally means losing 6 or 7 inches off the width of the room.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 36 FrancoBegbie77


    Hi guys,

    We have a sound issue with our new build semi-detached as well. Only moved in in 2020.

    We can here the their tv in our living room which is back to back with their living room. Their Tv is not beside the party wall though, its on the opposite side to it, which I have seen myself so we shouldn't be able to hear it as clear as we do.

    We can also hear their tv in their living room in the bedroom above our living room clear as day.

    The biggest issue I have though is our master bedroom is the furthest point away from the party wall, on the opposite side of the house, but we can hear them closing doors, not banging them, in our master bedroom as clear as day.

    It has woken us up loads of time. I would have expected to be able to hear some noise from the neighbours in rooms adjoining the party wall but to hear it and be disturbed in the rooms farthest away from the wall is not good.

    I was up in the attic and could see that the party wall is a block on the flat and when I took off some sockets downstairs I could see the party wall was plastered with a screed, according to our contract with the builders this is supposed to be an acoustic screed. All internal walls are drylined as well. Could this flanking noise be travelling through the void in the drylined walls and if so can we fill/pump that void to stop it?

    We know the neighbours, they are sound, and they are not banging the doors. The only thing is all the internal doors in both of our houses are big heavy fire doors that make a loud noise even when you try and close them quietly.

    We have spoken to other neighbours in our estate and none of them have any noise issues. Only seems to be with our two attached houses.

    Any advice would be much appreciated guys. Thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Horrible Situation to be in if you are not used to it, We moved into New Build 4 Bed Semi during the boom, The neighbors were sound too but we could hear everything down to the toilet activities. The house had risen in value by 30% (bought off plans) so after 6 months as a result of the noise issues (could not relax at any point of the day or night) we sold and moved to a semi-rural location to a new one-off house, We added 40k to our mortgage but never looked back. Soundproofing is possible, Have a look at this guy's approach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErGqRzzz_Vw



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Losing space to resolve the issue would be well worth it.



  • Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Sounds like the slabs were only "dotted and dabbed" onto the walls, where instead there should have been a complete seal around the sides of the slabs

    Personally I wouldn't have slabbed party walls, and the builder only did it for speed and economy rather than "the best solution". It should have been scratch coated and plastered.

    The hollow gaps behind the plasterboard is now acting as an amplifier for sound.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭micar


    I have installed this....and i did it myself expect the plastering.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    I think this is our issue.

    Watched Tim Horton video there on YouTube and surprised to see a DIY job that I think I'm capable of. Building a steel partition wall isolated from existing wall, then filling with a blocker like a wool, then plasterboard, then using an acoustic sticky cover thing, then slabbing...


    I couldn't do that on existing walls given the cavity behind the dry line, so would be going back to the block to start the partition etc...

    Wondering if a proper sand and cement plaster job might be sufficient on its own now though. Only one way to find out I guess



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!




  • Registered Users Posts: 11 hilwrh9


    would you mind sending me a pm with the details of the company you used. i’m going to get my home tested. i firmly believe the party wall in my home has issues with regards to sound.



  • Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭embracingLife




  • Registered Users Posts: 11 hilwrh9


    I didn’t go for a sound test in the end. Based on endless hours of research and speaking with various people across various industries i don’t feel it’s worth it. The sound test may fail at higher frequencies and pass at lower frequencies, the overall result is based on the average.

    The builder doesn’t care, their 1 in 40 or whatever amount they need to do in terms of sound tests passed.

    Im going down the route of having a professional company apply acoustic materials to the party wall to help reduce the noise. I’m realistic that i will hear some noise but what i’m hearing is unbearable, not that my neighbours are noisy, it’s poor workmanship on the party wall (based on my research).

    Sound transfer issues with new builds are more common than you would imagine. It’s a sensitive topic as people don’t want to discuss for fear of offending neighbours. A development with sound transfer issues won’t do anything to help the value of peoples homes either.

    I have settled on a company to do the work so helpfully will pull the trigger in the coming weeks



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  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭FJMC


    What solution are you going for - its always a difficult problem to address in many ways.

    You obviously have to do something with the actual wall - but you probably also have to do something with sub-floor voids, suspended first floors, roof spaces, etc. - and dealing with all the perimeter junctions - and dealing with any vents, windows, etc. either side of the party wall.

    F



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    We're going ahead with pulling down the plasterboard wall that is in the bedroom and putting up a studwall away from the party wall, filling with rockwool and then vinyl and 2 layers of acoustic plasterboard. Will do the ceiling as will and try and address flanking sounds by going as far as possible without ripping up too much of the room. Getting a builder to do all of this, not chancing it myself. It's such a sting to have to do this to a new house but sure. Next house is going to be detached.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 hilwrh9


    This is pretty similar to what we are going ahead with. The floors upstairs will come up so the void area between upstairs and downstairs can be treated. Corners and areas where walls connect to be opened and treated. Stud wall with rock wool etc all going in. It’s absolutely ridiculous that this needs to be done in a new home. Had the attic checked by the company who will be doing the work and they couldn’t believe the shabby workmanship on the blocks in the attic, bricks not pointed and very evident gaps in the wall. I need to check into it a bit more but there’s a substantial gap between the frame of the roof and the bricks in the attic also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Maybe a a forth night before the builder starts, try to start removing the plasterboard in a few samples areas. Walls are very complex and varied. Often you might think of something after seeing the wall that the builder might not realise. The more time the wall is exposed the more time you have to figure out the problem. Slow is better. You want to see how the party wall is built. Are there gaps in the blocks, shared joists etc. I don't know how is specing the materials, but it will help them.

    Of course, it will look ugly and it makes a huge dusty mess (possible breezy too), but this is a job that requires immense thoroughness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 hilwrh9


    Good idea. yeah i will definitely do this. I’m looking forward to getting it done now and hope that it with help with the issues we are experiencing. I’m am quite confident in the company who will do the work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 gallagbr


    Hi Yer man. We are in a similar situation with our new build Semi-D. Let us know how the soundproofing measures go for you as I am thinking of ripping down the internal dry lining against the party wall and filling with acoustic insulation too. I think the void behind the plasterboard is causing a 'drum effect'. It is amazing how these Party Walls comply with the current noise regs but we can still hear normal conversation from next door through the wall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭bleaks


    Would also be curious to know how you got on @yer man!. FYI, the 15mm soundbloc plasterboard is much denser/better than the regular stuff. Some people use a permanently flexible mastic called 'green glue' between two sheets of plasterboard that never sets and stays flexible, so it acts as a bit of a shock absorber and keeps a slight airgap between the two sheets of board.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Hey! Yeah got it done there a few week ago. It has definitely improved things but unfortunately impact sounds are still making it through. My madlad neighbour slams his doors all over the house so I can still hear that but can’t hear him talk to his wife anymore so that’s good at least. Not sure if I would spend this money again to be honest, it’s a marginal improvement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 hilwrh9


    Got the sitting room done in my own house. Separate wall built with the resilient bars. It’s made a good difference but only in that room. Will need to look at doing the bedroom area also. Pricey tho. Still can’t get over the fact we paid a bomb for a new home and had to go down this road.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Just wondering has anyone used these 'acoustic panel' things that you see in hardware shops?

    e.g. Smoked Oak Acoustic Wall Panel 2.4m x 600mm | Woodie's (woodies.ie)

    I can't imagine they're much use, but at the same time, I can't face ripping up carpets, tearing down plasterboard and losing six inches off the room if there was a less painful option that might give some benefit.



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