"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

the_syco · 29-11-2013 2:25am

deccurley wrote: »

If it stops one assault won't it be worth it?

Not really, as long term, it'll cause more assaults.

clairefontaine wrote: »

It basically means shut it and take it on the chin. Stop whining like a girl.

And everytime an abuser sees it, I wonder will they think
"I should stop doing this"
or
"I should man up and ignore my emotions, boys don't cry"
?

Davelarson wrote: »

We'll have a society with an awful lot of angry alienated young men wandering around trying to articulate their anger.

We have an awful lot of angry alienated young men wandering around beating the crap out of women. Or playing chicken with a train.

But still, it's our time to "man up" as opposed to looking at how you (society) mould young men (to be heartless monsters)?

Piliger · 29-11-2013 2:55pm

Lemming wrote: »

Page 7 (full page) in the Metro (UK) today;

Whilst you might think "wow, the 'Metro'. Whoopty-f*cking-do", this is the newspaper that is read by tens of thousands (if not into the hundreds of thousands) of rail commuters every single day up and down the length of the UK.

That is great to hear.

If I had a copy I would post it to safe Ireland and ask them to justify their campaign.

Pawwed Rig · 29-11-2013 3:12pm

Piliger wrote: »

That is great to hear.

I remember discussing the Rebecca Brooks assault on Ross Kemp with some of the guys I worked with and the general response was that people thought it was funny. Equally there was a Fair City story line in the last few years involving a woman beating a man, it was discussed as a serious topic on the Late Late and when it was introduced the audience all laughed at the concept. It is good therefore to see the Sykes case be dealt with in a serious fashion.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/27/melanie-sykes-arrested-and-cautioned-over-assaulting-her-younger-husband-jack-cockings-4204336/

I believe it is Police policy in the UK to detain in the event of a domestic violence claim which could account for more women being booked where previously they would have been let off.

ancapailldorcha · 29-11-2013 3:30pm

Piliger wrote: »

That is great to hear.

If I had a copy I would post it to safe Ireland and ask them to justify their campaign.

You could email them a link? I might just post them a print copy if I can lay my hands on one on the bus home.

Piliger · 23-12-2013 12:29am

http://www.manup.ie/ is still there - an extraordinarily biased and prejudice attack of hate against men.

3DataModem · 23-12-2013 12:31am

wexie wrote: »

Was the first thing my wife said : not all domestic abuse is by men (she did her thesis on female (sexual) abusers.

Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.

iptba · 23-12-2013 12:52am

3DataModem wrote: »

Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.

Does that depend on country? I previously saw it mentioned for the US which I find believable given the high numbers incarcerated there.

py2006 · 23-12-2013 1:22pm

I've noticed that sometimes women assaulting and/or abusing a man is not only seen as funny but almost respected to the point where they are almost hero figures. Or at the very least dismissed as non news. A lot will won't even bother reading the Sykes case.

Pawwed Rig · 23-12-2013 1:54pm

3DataModem wrote: »

Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.

Out of interest could you provide a link to one such study?

iptba · 23-12-2013 2:20pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

3DataModem wrote:

Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.

Out of interest could you provide a link to one such study?

Here's a link for a piece for the US, for what it's worth:
http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US-Than-Women

banquo · 23-12-2013 11:40pm

I despair for public discourse in Ireland.

cantdecide · 24-12-2013 12:09pm

Also, if you are a gay man in an abusive relationship, the campaign have nothing to say to you as you fall into another situation these people couldn't give a cr*p about. I also wonder which of the two in a relationship like this should be the one to "man up".

EDIT: I'm not making fun of the example I used. I'm just trying to point out the stupidity and inequity of the slogan.

Pawwed Rig · 24-12-2013 12:19pm

There is a section for men dealing with violence

http://www.manup.ie/get-help/#toggle-id-4

Also this section
Men are also Victims

While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women, men are also victims of violence by men or women. They often suffer an added societal stigma because they are seen as weak. Very often they are not believed. If you are at risk of violence from a male or female partner. There are specialist organisations to support you.

GalwayGuy2 · 24-12-2013 12:32pm

While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women, men are also victims of violence by men or women.

Hmmm, aren't there studies that say it's been 50/50.

And are we talking about gender based violence, or domestic abuse? They are two different things.

Not taking a dig at the poster, more at the holes in the campaign.

Pawwed Rig · 24-12-2013 12:44pm

Sure. I am trying to do some research that bears that out though and am looking for statistics.
With all respect to iptba the link he provided was not entirely convincing.

A wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender seems to add some meat to the argument but on examination of the sources used I am less than impressed as they solely focus on 1 country which happens to have a disproportionate level of incarceration by international standards.

I would imagine that the majority of prison rapes are perpetuated on men by men so this campaign would seem to include these too.

The 1 in 5 males raped by females is an interesting statistic and I would love to see the source for it. That said I would think that it could be taken with as big a pinch of salt as the opposing stat where what is defined as rape would not be considered so by the 'victim' in all of the cases.

cantdecide · 24-12-2013 1:47pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is a section for men dealing with violence

http://www.manup.ie/get-help/#toggle-id-4

Also this section
Men are also Victims

While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women, men are also victims of violence by men or women. They often suffer an added societal stigma because they are seen as weak. Very often they are not believed. If you are at risk of violence from a male or female partner. There are specialist organisations to support you.

Read the link and then look at the banner again on the same page- it still says "Man Up. Don't abuse women or children". It's just lip service. It doesn't say 'men being abused or controlled should man up and call these numbers'.

Pawwed Rig · 24-12-2013 2:20pm

Ah yeah I got that and I am not defending any campaign that blames all for the sins of the few. I would also seem that the statement
"While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women" is misleading. What is gender based violence? The same sentence would not be true eliminating that phrase to
"While the vast majority of incidents of violence are carried out by men against women"
So it would seem that violence man on man or (presumably) women on women is not included in this statement.

I am just interested to see a good study that backs up the wikipedia claims rather than defend this campaign.

iptba · 24-12-2013 5:51pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Also, if you are a gay man in an abusive relationship, the campaign have nothing to say to you as you fall into another situation these people couldn't give a cr*p about. I also wonder which of the two in a relationship like this should be the one to "man up".

EDIT: I'm not making fun of the example I used. I'm just trying to point out the stupidity and inequity of the slogan.

I've also seen it mentioned that such campaigning groups don't tend to highlight the problems of abuse in lesbian relationships. In that case women are victims so groups specifically focused on helping women victims should be interested.

Piliger · 24-12-2013 7:30pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Read the link and then look at the banner again on the same page- it still says "Man Up. Don't abuse women or children". It's just lip service. It doesn't say 'men being abused or controlled should man up and call these numbers'.

Our problem, as men, is how many men here wrote to this shower and complained ?

I wrote a (hard copy) letter to them and to their sponsors. We will get NO WHERE if we don't make a fuss and write ! And emails are worthless pieces of crap...... it's letters that get replies and notice :rolleyes:

iptba · 19-01-2014 10:43pm

(4 minutes 27 seconds)
Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_WLlMWk6U

donfers · 19-01-2014 11:08pm

iptba wrote: »

(4 minutes 27 seconds)
Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_WLlMWk6U

that'll put some feminists' heads in a spin

I've said it a zillion times, the tremendous appeal for embracing victimhood at every possible moment is ultimately further entrenching the idea of woman as weak, needy, inferior etc."

a holistic more well-rounded view of the bigger picture is necessary but it will never happen while the very notion of feminism exists, it is ultimately a self-destructive almost self-contradictory ideology

only when it is done away with and when men and women work together towards highlighting the discrimination and injustices that face men and women will the equality aspirations be taken seriously, it can't and doesn't happen under the feminism banner

If the "we're all in together" humanist approach was offered, I think a lot of feminists would reject it for the simple reason that a feminism has to a large extent become an industry co-opted by chauvinists

donfers · 20-01-2014 12:55am

actually just saw a book review on Amazon that is a perfect illustration of the chauvism embodied by industry feminism

They are not about equality at all, they are about self-justification of anything by a woman and demonisation of almost anything by a man, viewing the world through that kind of prism is the very definition of unbalanced/unequal/discriminatory - they can't see the wood for the trees, campaigning for "equality" yet espousing one-eyed inconsistent and hypocritical worldviews in many instances

They remind me in many ways of the more extreme "liberals" out there who claim to support free speech, claim to be anti-censorship, open to different views yet are the most virtiolic when it comes to condemning and silencing those with alternate views, a true liberal hears a right-winger or conservative out and respects their right to hold that view rather than calling them every name under the sun - so blind to their own hypocrasy and so embittered by their fabricated and carefully constructed victimhood...anywaywell-reasoned rant over;), the review is below and it was written about a book called the end of men on amazon

I can't say I disagree with this person's rather humorous review of a book, this stuff goes on all the time

"Name one thing right now that a feminist would criticize their gender for doing. I'll save you the mental effort: there's nothing. There is absolutely nothing that a girl can do that would get hate from feminists. For example:

Girl has no willpower and is 50 pounds overweight? Not her fault. She's beautiful. Social constructs need to be changed.

Girl s l u t s around with 100 guys without condoms? Not her fault. She's empowered and strong.

Girl is irresponsible with sex and has five abortions in her 20s? It's her body and she can do whatever she wants. A fetus inside her is not a living entity.

Girl is making less money than men? The patriarchy is holding her down.

Girl gets drunk in a guy's house and has sex with him? He took advantage of her. She was r a p e d.

Girl studies stupid major in college and can't get a job? The 1% owes her a marketing manager position.

Girl sleeps with her college professor in exchange for a better grade? She was a victim. The professor took advantage of her.

Girl likes dating guys much younger than her? You go girl! Rob that cradle!

Girl experiences an uncomfortable moment of any kind? She's being harassed. Men are creeps.

Girl travels to Italy or Spain to bang hot European men? She's romantic.

Wife cheated on her faithful husband? He wasn't attending to her needs. She wasn't happy. Give her the kids and half his money.

Mother runs over her own kid in an accident? The SUV wasn't safe. It's the auto industry's fault.

Mother kills all of her kids? She was mentally sick. We must give her love instead of severe punishment.

On the flip side, almost anything a man does is wrong:

Guy is nice to girl in hopes of getting sex one day? He's dishonest. He's the polar opposite of nice.

Guy approaches girls in the bar in hopes of getting sex? He's a rando creep loser.

Guy on OK Cupid says he wants a girl who doesn't play games? Let's publicly mock him on Tumblr.

Guy makes a joke about fat girls? Hate speech.

Guys says he doesn't date black girls with ghetto attitude? Racist.

Guy likes working out to have strong muscles? Narcissist.

Guy says he wants his wife to stay at home and raise the kids? Slaver.

Guy calls girls on the internet ugly? Whole internet comes pounding on his door.

Guy hits on a girl on the street? Street harassment. Disturbing the peace.

Guy travels to Ukraine to get laid? Sex tourist.

Guy likes dating girls much younger than him? Sexual predator.

Guy likes dating girls just a little bit younger than him? Immature and irresponsible."

py2006 · 20-01-2014 10:38am

You could add:

Guy wants to be a house husband. Lazy, not a real man. (although that seems to be changing)
Guy breaks up with a girl for honest reasons. Creep, looser, can't put up with a strong independent woman. All her girl friends now hate him.
Guy hires a man over a woman on grounds of experience/qualifications. Sexist, discrimination.
Guy goes to a strip club. Pervert/sleazy. (fun night out for the girls)
Guy opens a newspaper/magazine that has a pic of a sexy model. Perv, degrading women, inappropriate behaviour in work place etc.
Guy makes a bit of suggestive banter in work place. Sexist, degrading behaviour leading discipline and/or the sack. (just plain banter for women).

Wibbs · 20-01-2014 11:04am

iptba wrote: »

(4 minutes 27 seconds)
Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets

Very interesting take there I and one I would wholly agree with. Actually saw a real life example of this. Guy we knew was basically a battered husband. Mostly verbal, sometimes physical. One night she attacked him and left him with facial bruising and cuts. The neighbours called the Guards and he was the one asked to leave, even though there wasn't a scratch on her. She told them he pushed her and that was enough.

donfers · 20-01-2014 2:30pm

py2006 wrote: »

You could add:

Guy wants to be a house husband. Lazy, not a real man. (although that seems to be changing)
Guy breaks up with a girl for honest reasons. Creep, looser, can't put up with a strong independent woman. All her girl friends now hate him.
Guy hires a man over a woman on grounds of experience/qualifications. Sexist, discrimination.
Guy goes to a strip club. Pervert/sleazy. (fun night out for the girls)
Guy opens a newspaper/magazine that has a pic of a sexy model. Perv, degrading women, inappropriate behaviour in work place etc.
Guy makes a bit of suggestive banter in work place. Sexist, degrading behaviour leading discipline and/or the sack. (just plain banter for women).

guy looks at woman: trying to subdue her with the male gaze, embodying the patriarchal system that defines him and enslaves the woman

guy looks away from woman: trying to dismiss and disrespect her as a non-entity unworthy of his attention, unappreciative of the perfection of feminity, embodying the patriarchal system that defines him and enslaves the woman

Wompa1 · 20-01-2014 7:22pm

Girl cheats on a guy. Guy gets upset and yells obscenities. Girl proclaims she now realizes how abusive of a boyfriend the guy is and this now becomes the cause of the breakup to make her look like the victim

Girl complains when she's too hot, too cold, hungry, full, sad, angry, when easily offended etc. Guy moans when sick. He's got man flu and is over-reacting.

iptba · 20-01-2014 7:32pm

Yes, lots of examples here.
A simple trick I often use is to switch the genders. It is interesting how often standards/rules are different. It does not impress me at all that so-called gender studies researchers/academics/educators don't do this more often.

iptba · 01-02-2014 6:27pm

Dec 4, 2013 article:

Why are so many MEN becoming victims of domestic violence? It's one of Britain's last remaining taboos, but abuse against men in the home is on the rise

- More married men suffer abuse from their spouse than married women
- These days, women move more in men's worlds
- They earn and compete with as much aggression as their male colleagues
- Women are also fast catching up with men in the alchohol stakes

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2518434/Why-MEN-victims-domestic-violence-Its-Britains-remaining-taboos-abuse-men-home-rise.html

iptba · 08-03-2014 4:45am

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/violence-against-women-1.1716847

Violence against women

Sat, Mar 8, 2014, 01:08

First published:Sat, Mar 8, 2014, 01:08

Sir, – The fact that one in three European women has experienced physical or sexual violence since the age of 15 and that 26 per cent of Irish women have experienced physical and/or sexual violence since that age is quite simply appalling (“Quarter of Irish women have been victims of violence”, Home News, March 5th).

It is imperative that we take action to turn the tide on such pervasive and pandemic gender-based violence.

For this reason, the Irish Girl Guides have adopted a Voices Against Violence curriculum that has been developed by the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, in partnership with UN Women.

Our 1,800 volunteer leaders throughout the country are receiving training on issues of gender-based violence before introducing the curriculum to our 10,000 girls and young women, who will learn to talk about violence, understand its root causes, recognise their rights and develop the skills and confidence to claim those rights for themselves and others.

The curriculum uses fun and interactive methods to create a safe space for girls to learn about the issues. Age-appropriate activities are used so that our youngest members, Ladybird Guides aged 5-7, can engage with the programme by learning about their likes and dislikes and their rights to make decisions, while Senior Branch members, aged 14-plus, are encouraged to take action in their communities and to speak out against violence.

This week, to mark International Women’s Day, our members are taking part in an activity called “From a Whisper to a Shout” that encourages them to speak out and make their voices heard.

Our vision is to see a world where girls and women feel free and safe, both in Ireland and overseas – a world where they are fully empowered to fulfil their potential. – Yours, etc,

HELEN CONCANNON,
Chief Commissioner,
LINDA PETERS,
Chief Executive Officer,
Irish Girl Guides,
Pembroke Park, Dublin 4.

I have little confidence that such programmes will accurately discuss domestic violence, given how they are presenting things. Women initiate a significant amount of domestic violence and then another significant percentage of domestic violence involves both similar amounts of domestic violence from both partners doesn't look like it would fit in with talk of "gender-based violence"

iptba · 29-04-2014 7:00pm

Random video I just came across in my FB feed of a woman *really* losing it. This is in public but no reason to believe she wouldn't behave like this at home:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=817033734993095

"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

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