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Knee pain and running

  • 23-11-2020 12:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭


    Hi. I'm 47 , 5'11 , 13 stone and very very new to running I'm following NHS Couch25K and do roughly two miles 3 days a week at the moment I get slightly tender pain on my inside joint knuckle just below the knee. Not very sore just I know it's there. It takes two to three days to all but go away but then the pain/twinge returns after I run again. Should I take a week off and see if it improves for longer or should I continue with my run every two to three days. I stick an ice pack on it for 15mins after I run.
    Any advice ?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭dickidy


    have you got your running gate checked.
    Amphibian king do this and recommend what runners you should use


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Go see a physio.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    dickidy wrote: »
    have you got your running gate checked.
    Amphibian king do this and recommend what runners you should use

    I didnt do that . I have a pair of ECCO biom fjuel running shoes that feel good. I probably should get my gait checked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Go see a physio.

    This is all new to me so could you please tell me since I know the pain stops after a few days of no running what could I expect to get from a physio? Cause of pain , strength excercises?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Car99 wrote: »
    This is all new to me so could you please tell me since I know the pain stops after a few days of no running what could I expect to get from a physio? Cause of pain , strength excercises?

    They should be able to give you a cause or reason for the knee pain and then a way to rehab it so you get no pain at all after running.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Car99 wrote: »
    This is all new to me so could you please tell me since I know the pain stops after a few days of no running what could I expect to get from a physio? Cause of pain , strength excercises?

    Getting gait analysis one in a store could be beneficial or as useful as a chocolate fire guard. And there's as much of a chance of the latter.
    There's no evidence to say that it has any benefits in
    1, correcting biomechanics
    2, prevention of injuries.

    Some good physio or sports therapist can help to identify what the route cause of you discomfort mightbe.
    It maybe that your bady is adjusting to the extra loads/demands you are putting on it.

    It might be worth you while backing off for a few days, and see how you get on. Before restarting your plan. You could look for some professional advice if symptoms persist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭ciaran76


    Car99 wrote: »
    Hi. I'm 47 , 5'11 , 13 stone and very very new to running I'm following NHS Couch25K and do roughly two miles 3 days a week at the moment I get slightly tender pain on my inside joint knuckle just below the knee. Not very sore just I know it's there. It takes two to three days to all but go away but then the pain/twinge returns after I run again. Should I take a week off and see if it improves for longer or should I continue with my run every two to three days. I stick an ice pack on it for 15mins after I run.
    Any advice ?

    Go see a physio.

    Had pain on inside left of my right knee for a while but nothing too serious.
    Then around Feb. it got really bad and I took a few weeks off running and then COVID hit and I tried running again and the pain was worse.
    In the summer I eventually got to a physio and within minutes told me it was a hip injury that was causing my knee to hurt.
    4/5 weeks later I was back running again and slowly increased my distance etc.
    Would never have thought it was my hip causing the issue but it I am very glad I went to see a physio.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Getting gait analysis one in a store could be beneficial or as useful as a chocolate fire guard. And there's as much of a chance of the latter.
    There's no evidence to say that it has any benefits in
    1, correcting biomechanics
    2, prevention of injuries.

    Some good physio or sports therapist can help to identify what the route cause of you discomfort mightbe.
    It maybe that your bady is adjusting to the extra loads/demands you are putting on it.

    It might be worth you while backing off for a few days, and see how you get on. Before restarting your plan. You could look for some professional advice if symptoms persist.

    Very good point . I did notice after my run today that the pain/ twinge is less than after my last run. I did shorten my running stride today which seemed to lessen the stress on my knees. somewhat.

    Thanks to All for the advice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    ciaran76 wrote: »
    Go see a physio.

    Had pain on inside left of my right knee for a while but nothing too serious.
    Then around Feb. it got really bad and I took a few weeks off running and then COVID hit and I tried running again and the pain was worse.
    In the summer I eventually got to a physio and within minutes told me it was a hip injury that was causing my knee to hurt.
    4/5 weeks later I was back running again and slowly increased my distance etc.
    Would never have thought it was my hip causing the issue but it I am very glad I went to see a physio.

    Thanks . If it doesn't improve in the next couple of weeks after running I'll visit a physio.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    Car99 wrote: »
    Hi. I'm 47 , 5'11 , 13 stone and very very new to running I'm following NHS Couch25K and do roughly two miles 3 days a week at the moment I get slightly tender pain on my inside joint knuckle just below the knee. Not very sore just I know it's there. It takes two to three days to all but go away but then the pain/twinge returns after I run again. Should I take a week off and see if it improves for longer or should I continue with my run every two to three days. I stick an ice pack on it for 15mins after I run.
    Any advice ?

    Quad, hamstring and glute strengthning are really important to support the knee. I had a small meniscus tear and opted for strength rehab. It's taken two months of really hard work but I'm back running up to 10 miles with no issues.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,842 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Sometimes runners could cause it.

    I moved from Brooks to Reebok and after a few months i got knee issues, back in brooks now and all ok on the knee side


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Car99 wrote: »
    I didnt do that . I have a pair of ECCO biom fjuel running shoes that feel good. I probably should get my gait checked.

    I'd have a look at your footwear. Those aren't really designed for running in.
    More like a sneaker style walking shoe.

    I'd get a better pair of runners, and if it doesn't improve quickly, then go see a physio. But a physio that's a runner and knows more about problems runners generally have.

    Worst thing you can do is keep making it worse, and have a longer road to recovery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,405 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    You are talking about a very specific injury, on the inside of your knee. Presumably difficult to touch or access, deep in the knee.

    This sounds to me like Meniscus.

    I would definitely see a physio. More particularly, I would try find a physio with experience of treating this injury.

    There is a big difference between treating a meniscus tear that a 20 year old footballer gets after a bad tackle, and a 'wear and tear' erosion type that older people get. (I am the same age as you).

    I dont see why people are recommending a gait analysis. What do you expect the person in the running store to say? Oh you're flatfooted, try these Asics, that will sort it?......come on....

    See a physio who has treated knee injuries in middle aged runners before, and see what they say. They might say to get an MRI - but in practice, what they should be doing is listening to you talk about what the symptoms are and treating accordingly.

    What they should also do is give you a program to strengthen the muscles around the knee, starting off slowly and building it up. In the meantime, I'd consider cycling in lieu of, or combined with, running until the issue is resolved as cycling is much lower impact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    You are talking about a very specific injury, on the inside of your knee. Presumably difficult to touch or access, deep in the knee.

    This sounds to me like Meniscus.

    I would definitely see a physio. More particularly, I would try find a physio with experience of treating this injury.

    There is a big difference between treating a meniscus tear that a 20 year old footballer gets after a bad tackle, and a 'wear and tear' erosion type that older people get. (I am the same age as you).

    I dont see why people are recommending a gait analysis. What do you expect the person in the running store to say? Oh you're flatfooted, try these Asics, that will sort it?......come on....

    See a physio who has treated knee injuries in middle aged runners before, and see what they say. They might say to get an MRI - but in practice, what they should be doing is listening to you talk about what the symptoms are and treating accordingly.

    What they should also do is give you a program to strengthen the muscles around the knee, starting off slowly and building it up. In the meantime, I'd consider cycling in lieu of, or combined with, running until the issue is resolved as cycling is much lower impact.

    I spoke to a physio this morning, he gave me some strengthening excercises to carry out , said take a week off from running and see where I'm at in 7 days. He did say if that doesnt work maybe get an MRI to see what's going on and then assess options from there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,204 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Car99 wrote: »
    Hi. I'm 47 , 5'11 , 13 stone and very very new to running I'm following NHS Couch25K and do roughly two miles 3 days a week at the moment I get slightly tender pain on my inside joint knuckle just below the knee. Not very sore just I know it's there. It takes two to three days to all but go away but then the pain/twinge returns after I run again. Should I take a week off and see if it improves for longer or should I continue with my run every two to three days. I stick an ice pack on it for 15mins after I run.
    Any advice ?


    As you have just started it is enevitable that your body will start suffering aches and pains as it gets used to the new stresses and strains.

    We are not physio but it sounds like it could well be 'runner's knee'. I had this when I strarted and had two professional and conflicting opinions.

    1. Chiropodist said one leg shorter than the other and blagged me into £300.00 insoles;
    2. 12 mts later a physio (who works with Premier League footballers) said that was bollocks and it was over training and told me to ditch the insoles.
    3. Then read a book on the subject it clicked that I had changed my seating arrangments at work when I got a new desk. I was crossing my leg with the knee bent- it wasnt causng it but it was preventing my recovery.

    Ditched the insoles and make sure not to sit with leg bent- way better. Still a few aches after a long run but nothing like it was and not noticible anymore. Ditched the insoles and focused on foam rolling my inner thigh.

    Also the more you run your form and cadence will improve- this will help your joints.

    Go to a physio/specialist for gait analysis but will also look at other factors if you have. Not a running shop as they are basically trying to sell you shoes. I am a little cynical about gait analysis- you body knows how to run and adapt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,204 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Car99 wrote: »
    I spoke to a physio this morning, he gave me some strengthening excercises to carry out , said take a week off from running and see where I'm at in 7 days. He did say if that doesnt work maybe get an MRI to see what's going on and then assess options from there.


    Jesus straight to MRI after 7 days!! That's a bit quick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,204 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Jesus straight to MRI after 7 days!! That's a bit quick.




    TBH OP...I would be a little concerned that a physio is that quick to suggest an MRI for a runner that has only just started. As I said earlier, aches and pains are to be fully expected.

    Fair enough I get the whole "Well let's just rule out a few things first" but that approach is a little hasty. Plus you are not likely to see any dramatic changes with 7 days of exercises.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    TBH OP...I would be a little concerned that a physio is that quick to suggest an MRI for a runner that has only just started. As I said earlier, aches and pains are to be fully expected.

    Fair enough I get the whole "Well let's just rule out a few things first" but that approach is a little hasty. Plus you are not likely to see any dramatic changes with 7 days of exercises.

    My plan is to take this week off running while making a start at the strengthening excercises then ease back into the running next week taking it easy for 5 or 6 weeks as long as my knee feels ok. Hopefully it's just my rusty joints freeing out . I'll go from there I'm not in any panic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭IrishZeus


    Op, started running myself back in May and have gone from struggling hugely doing just 1km to competing my first 5km last week, so I’m in the same place as yourself. A few years younger but not much.

    Was having the exact same issue, mostly in right knee but also a twinge in left. I managed to sort it overnight with some proper stretching - something which a lot of people seem to overlook. I took about 45 mins one day and just stretched everything - calves, quad, hamstrings.

    Spoke to a physio I’ve learned to trust fully over the years, who told me that building strength in the above muscles is important to supporting the knee joint but that new muscle can also exert further pressure if not stretched and maintained properly. I still get the odd twinge now but a good stretch sees it sorted.

    Hope this helps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Foam roll regularly, to reduce muscle tension


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Since everyone was so helpful just said I'd give an update incase it helps anyone in the future.

    I spoke to a physio , he said stop running for 1 week and he gave me some 23 degree slant board squats to do ( it is a a patellar tendonitis excercise ) three sets of 15, three times a day. There are youtube vids of how to do it properly.

    I did that and started back at the jogging at week 4 on the NHS c25k plan. Fast forward 4 weeks and I'm doing 5k in just under 37 mins which includes my 5 min warm up brisk walk. My knees are feeling pretty good . I bought a pair of brooks ghost 12 shoes last week also to make the running easier on the feet.

    So thanks everyone for their input. Two months ago I never thought I would be able to jog for 30 mins non stop especially after c25k week 1 had me seeing stars at the end. My body surprised me .


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