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Buffalo & Doozerie - The mild musings of two grumpy old men!

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    #182
    dave_o_brien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭dave_o_brien


    doozerie wrote: »
    My post wasn't having a go at you, I was just playing around with the words that buffalo used i.e. I wasn't calling you a racist, you just met one.

    I'm all tense ever since yer man! But I wasn't taking it personally, just realised how someone might have interpreted me as a massive hypocrite.


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    #183
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    doozerie wrote: »
    I can see what you're saying, but while it makes sense that road design can influence behaviour, what it all boils down to for me in this instance is that a driver, at some level, abdicated his responsibility to other road users by not taking account of his circumstances. So the road design is a factor, I agree, but the root of the problem here is really the driver behaviour.

    I think there is no doubt that road design is important, that becomes blatantly obvious in particular when it is done extremely badly (e.g. the worst of the cycle tracks), but I also wonder whether as a society we don't take enough account of the risks of complacency influencing road user behaviour. As better road design theoretically makes roads safer, do we as road users basically stop listening to those parts of our brain that try to remind us of potential dangers?

    That's a topic for a much broader debate of course but I'm reluctant to blame an incident on road design when the driver in question was clearly at fault. He might reasonably claim that the junction layout discouraged him from stopping but ultimately it was his conscious decision to just drive on and thereby almost cause a collision, however much it might bother him to acknowledge this.

    I'm not suggesting that you are excusing the driver's behaviour here, by the way, but the driver might happily opt to pin the blame on "the state of the roads" and it's an option that would appeal to blinkered road users and their lobby groups generally. Anything that takes the focus away from their own behaviour is very appealing to the worst culprits. So while I think that calls for better road design are important, I also think that a lot of care is needed in how these calls are worded and presented to void pandering to the muppets.

    Yep there is a phenomenon called accident migration that has been identified after so called "black spot" treatments. So a known problem location gets fixed and crashes then increase at various places in the surrounding area. The effect might be due to the fact that negotiating a problematic road feature causes increased alertness and caution among drivers passing through that spot. Take away the feature and you take away the alertness and caution leading to more crashes.

    Yep ultimately the onus is on the driver to yield. I don't think he would have any defense in court. But it is a fact that Irish roads engineers favour practices that encourage and reward poor behaviour. Indeed in some cases that is their goal. (Other examples are the use of road design speeds exceeding the speed limit, so as to facilitate overtaking, on roads where most drivers are already speeding) Psychologists have shown that we all instinctively tend to concentrate on looking for threats and ignore things that we don't see as threats. This should be factored into road design so that junctions do not encourage people to drive on instinct rather than good information. The bottom line is that if you are cycling at any kind of speed you need to be well out in the road approaching an Irish side road.


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    #184
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Never though of accident black spots as a mechanism for abdicating responsibility for dangerous driving. Are they intended to indicate a dangerous road, or a road populated with dangerous drivers? Bit of both I know, but it does make you think. If a driver smushes someone at a known black spot, are they somehow less responsible?


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    #185
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    buffalo wrote: »
    Anyway, I've since fired off emails to the DoT and NTA - keyboard warriors, UNITE!

    NTA responded with a boilerplate email that I should take my complaint to the Gardaí. ...I didn't make any complaint in my original mail, just asked them if they could inform taxi drivers of the change in law.

    Nice to know they care.


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    #186
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    buffalo wrote: »
    NTA responded with a boilerplate email that I should take my complaint to the Gardaí. ...I didn't make any complaint in my original mail, just asked them if they could inform taxi drivers of the change in law.

    Nice to know they care.

    ha! Less than twenty minutes later, the DoT respond to acknowledge receipt of my email about "non-mandatory use of bus lanes". Does anybody read anything?


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    #187
    Kav0777
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Kav0777


    buffalo wrote: »
    ha! Less than twenty minutes later, the DoT respond to acknowledge receipt of my email about "non-mandatory use of bus lanes". Does anybody read anything?

    You should send an email to the NTA about it.


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    #188
    FirstinLastout
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭FirstinLastout


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    The problem here is inherently dangerous Irish road design practices.
    Historically, Irish roads practice was intended to ensure that motorists would not have to stop at side-roads. Add a cycle facility that takes you out of the drivers "zone of observation" and you compound the effect.

    Irish roads engineers have been training motorists not to stop and look for cyclists in much the same way that they have been training cyclists to ignore red lights.

    Just out of interest how are Irish road designers encouraging/training cyclists to ignore red stop lights?


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    #189
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    FirstinLastout wrote: »
    Just out of interest how are Irish road designers encouraging/training cyclists to ignore red stop lights?

    One that spring to mind are the cycle specific lights designed to allow motorists to overtake cyclists to turn left, where the light is for the cycle track. Basically, the cyclists are treated as pedestrians and follow pedestrian lighting. A lot of cyclists seem to ignore these lights, personally I just avoid these cycle lanes and stay with the traffic in order to avoid the impediment. Main gates to Marlay park would be an example. The problem is really with the cycle lane being on the inside of a lane that might contain left turning traffic; if the cycle lane is busy and being used, take the lights away and the traffic cant turn left. By not using the cycle lane and taking an assertive position on the road, the car turns after you've passed the junction rather than in front of you, which is safer all round.


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    #190
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Another would be sensored lights that don't pick up bikes, a person grows up with these learns that they eventually have to progress through the light if no cars trigger it. Without proper education at national school level on how to deal with these situations, people begin to believe these lights do not have anything to do with them as the lights do not respond to their presence. Eventually enough regular commuters form this opinion that new cyclists coming along see those who appear competent and experienced jumping lights, therefore it must be OK.

    I don't agree with RLJing but I see how it becomes ingrained as the norm in Ireland. I have had motorists/cyclists shout at me to progress through a red as they thought I was stopping to impede them but believe me there are few junctions with lights that I won't clear quicker than the average city driver when they go green. I even had one guy get out of his car to scream and shout at me while a light was red, it went green and looking back, the light was red before he was back in his car and able to move. I witnessed another car driver scream blue murder at cyclists for waiting in a cycle lane for a straight ahead light as it impeded him slightly from a left turn. If the bike lane was designed properly, it would have merged over to the right of the left turning lane, instead, it has become a point of danger and frustration, design and education would save alot of hassle in this scenario.

    If better planning, design, education (of both motorists and cyclists) had taken place, these issues would be lower.


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    #191
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    I had to get up earlier than usual this morning as I had an early work thing to go to. Getting to bed early last night was a good plan, I must actually try that some time just for the novelty. When I finally managed to prise my eyes open this morning, after what seemed like very little sleep, I had to crowbar myself out of bed and wandered around in a daze. On went my boxers and trousers before I settled down to the arduous task of lacing up my MTB boots. Dealing with laces has become a bit of a dying art with me, my commute (cycling) shoes close with velcro, my shoes in work have no laces, when I get home I change into other shoes with no laces. I now find laces tedious, but in very cold weather my MTB boots are a better choice than my shoes, so I have to face my fears and wrestle with their ridiculously long laces.

    Laces subdued and secured I headed to the loo before leaving. I negotiated well the outer layer of trousers, well done me, but I hit an obstacle at the inner layer of boxers. There was no opening. Where's the opening? I searched for a while until I found it. At the back. *sob*

    I'm not sure what's worse, being so dopey that you don't realise your are putting your boxers on back to front, or being so lace-ist that you try to figure out ways of correcting the problems without having to take your trousers, and hence your laced boots, off. In the end I had to admit defeat and undid my boots, put my boxers on the right way round, was careful to make sure my trousers went on the right way round, and fought with my boots again. Some days you are just meant to stay in bed.

    As I passed through the kitchen, I noted from the radio that the AA were advising that motorists should "allow for a greater stopping distance" when the roads are icy, in addition to the usual "text us information. But not while driving". I waited for their suggestion that you should always wear a vest when going out in the cold, but there was no mention of it at all, a shocking dereliction of parental duty on their part.

    After the work event I cycled on to work in lovely spring sunshine. It was great, cycling along an empty bus lane on Clanbrassil Street on a sunny day, until a lorry driver decided to pull into the bus lane to get past the queue of stopped cars in his lane. I was in his way, but he wasn't going to let a minor thing like that delay him. I hauled on the brakes as his tall and hefty wing mirror occupied the space where my head was about to be, and I swerved towards the kerb as the rest of the truck cut across me before he straightened out and belted off up the bus lane. Apparently the AA had also neglected to suggest that drivers not actually squash anyone today. Bad AA.

    I caught up with him about 1km later, while he was stopped in traffic. The driver had a Chris DeBurgh hairstyle, circa 1980's, complete with mullet. It instantly brought to mind that horrible song "Lady in Red" - I was already not happy, now I was tormented too. While I attempted to convey my concerns about his driving, and before I even got to the topic of his questionable "fashion" sense, he growled something that seemed to want to be non-complimentary. He followed that up with "Shut up or I'll get out there and give you a slap!". Apparently the AA also neglected to warn drivers not to threaten someone with assault in public, which is shocking really - there are children out there, some of whose mammies still cut their hair, who simply don't know what they should and shouldn't do while driving, and the AA is failing them badly with their lack of guidance. Tut.


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    #192
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    buffalo wrote: »
    Who was it who complained about cyclists' lights... that was probably your problem, your light was too bright.

    Nice Garda took my statement, he says the taxi driver is "offering a different version of events". Which means it goes up a level to someone who decides whether the case is worth the bother. I'm not holding my breath, though I think it's obvious that no matter what train of events takes place, if you take your car close enough to a cyclist that he can a) touch it, and b) feels the need to, then your car is too close. Sure we'll see how it goes.

    Call from the Garda this morning - superintendent has decided to take no action. After emailing about this last week - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83565383#post83565383 - I decided to follow up my email about this - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83674282#post83674282 - with my current feelings.

    This man, a professional driver, came within a few inches of killing or seriously injuring me, and yet faces no penalty. No warning, no caution, no points, nothing on his record. It's a ****ing joke.

    Also, I have truly become a grumpy letter-writing nag.


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    #193
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    This morning was the first morning in a while where I felt able to wear something lighter than my thick winter lobster gloves. What a relief that was. I've been happy with their performance, when combined with merino glove liners, but they turn certain routine things into a farce. That's partly due to their lobster nature, and partly due to the fact that they have a relatively thick insulating layer that means your (paired) fingers have little feeling through them.

    They pose a particular challenge when trying to open or close zips on the go. And I have bloody zips everywhere - on the neck of my base layer, on the front and both sleeves of my rain jacket, on the four pockets of my trousers. It's just a daily comedy drama just waiting to unfold really. I end up giving the appearance of someone who has never encountered a zip before, and believes it to be something harmful that is trying to attack him. That's the only thing that could explain why I'm clearly wrestling with the zipper as my fingers struggle to find it, and when they do they instantly lose it again so I launch another attack at it while muttering loudly. I look like an incompetent self-harmer.

    But this morning was mild so I wore regular gloves, and I was in a good mood as I approached my left turn off the quays. As I turned on a green light a pedestrian who clearly is a more competent self-harmer than I stepped off the kerb to walk across the road just as I was turning onto. He didn't look over his shoulder, he didn't hesitate, he just walked straight on with a large "SQUISH ME!" badge on his back. I was pretty much on his shoulder and mid turn when I let out an "Oy oy oy!" yell to warn him. He didn't look at me, and he didn't stop walking either, instead he growled something at me as I passed within inches of him at a relatively slow speed. I couldn't decipher what he growled, I reckoned as he hadn't master the use of his basic senses that maybe speech was something he was still aspiring to.

    I've had a pedestrian step off the kerb and directly into me before, they planted a foot down roughly under my bottom bracket and my back wheel rode over it. This time though the situation was a little different, as this time I had my spiked winter tyres on the bike. I half worried that this was going to be the day when my tyres finally drew blood (and not my own, which would be a pleasant surprise), and I half encouraged my tyre's potential blood lust with a mental yell of "Go tyres, GO!". But no, it turned out that my evasive action had swung me wide enough that I missed his apparently unstoppable feet entirely. I glanced back to see him still barging straight on, head facing firmly forward, shoulders hunched, and a turning car driver to his right hitting the brakes to avoid colliding with him. Is there a special Darwin award for someone who seems to be trying hard to win a Darwin award but failing even at that, I wonder.

    It's almost a pity that I wasn't wearing my lobster gloves, I could have launched a lobster attach and finally been able to tell my daughter when I got home that yes, I had "snipped someone" with my gloves that day. Next time Mr Belligerent, next time. ...assuming that my zips don't win their war against my gloves in the meantime.


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    #194
    rollingscone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    There is in fact a runners up categry in the Darwin Awards...it's the only part I can enjoy reading sans guilt.


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    #195
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    It's been a long aul' day at the office. Cycling home in high winds and rain. On the Drumcondra Road, coming up to a left-hand side-road, used as a rat run. There's a bus at the head of traffic before the yellow box. I don't know how or why drivers can make the turn with any confidence, they obviously just hope and pray there's no cyclists on the other side of the bus.

    With my trademark caution, I peek out around the front of the bus. White van man has started his turn, but he's seen me now, right? I'm wearing HI-VIS, saviour of cyclists everywhere, only a flashing neon sign tops it. No, WVM continues his turn, so I stall just shy of his side panel.

    Start forward, but WVM is quickly followed by not one, but two motorists who drive straight across me. In HI-VIS! Sure I'm only a cyclist... I assume the guy behind me thought I was a lunatic as I swore and gesticulated wildly. I was a lunatic for those few seconds probably.

    No actually, if I was a lunatic, I would've cycled into someone's path and had them brake sharply or hit me. And then give out to them when they got angry. It's easier to vent here though, and less risk of injury.

    In a feelgood story, I was waiting on O'Donovan Rossa Bridge on Monday, northbound (well, no other way to go on that bridge, but let's clarify that I'm not one to salmon). There was a gang of four older tourists wanting to cross the road, but they were obediently waiting for the elusive green man to appear. They hadn't noticed the wee button, as they chattered amongst themselves in French. I got their attention and pointed it out to them, and one gent pushed it. Lo and behold, the green man magically appeared instantly! There was much cheering and feasting, and they pottered merrily on their way, smiling and thanking me. :cool:

    My dad used to do that trick - he knew the crossings where the green man didn't appear automatically, and would wiggle his magic fingers before pushing the button. I always thought it was amazing, but now I realised the whole concept is stupid. Are the council/NRA/NTA saving money on bulbs by not having pedestrian crossings showing the green man whenever possible? Damn, this was supposed to be a feelgood story... er, it's nearly the weekend, huzzah! \o/


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    #196
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    When my cycling helmet leaves funny shapes in my hair I know I'm overdue a haircut, so I dug out my hair clippers last weekend. I have simple hair with simple needs, it hasn't seen a hairdresser in years as I just attack it now and again and hack it back. Cutting my own hair has several advantages, not least of which is not having to face what had become a regular question from the barber of "And shall I trim your eyebrows too?". What? No, you feckin' can't, leave them well alone! I've seen enough bad chop socky movies in my youth to know that long white eyebrows that drape down to the shoulders represent wisdom and general awesomeness, I'll not have an over eager barber ruin my aspirations to reach that pinnacle.

    Plus it's probably only a matter of time before I began to be asked whether they should trim my ear hairs too and my nose hairs wouldn't be long after that and basically it would all be a bit much to bear. So I've been cutting my own hair for a few years now. More recently, my 3yr old daughter has started to help. She has been quite eager in fact, so while I worked away with the shallowest guide (for the shortest cut) she worked on her "I'm, like, waiting!" expression beside me. I fitted a less shallow guide for the top of my head and handed her the clippers. She learns fast and is very meticulous but she doesn't yet fully appreciate the importance of running the clippers along the head, she's more a fan of the (relatively careful) digging/stabbing motion. My bumpy head doesn't help either. All in all I felt like I was being mildly attacked by a meat tenderiser.

    She is also a fan of the random approach to hair cutting. So she'll spend a bit of time trimming the hair in one small area on one side of my head and then jump to some other area at random for a while. Maybe she just likes the alopecia look, can't say I'm a fan of it myself though.

    Eventually she got bored and handed me back the clippers, saying she was off to find her "clip clop shoes", her name for high-heeled shoes which she "borrows" from my wife. It's quite a fitting name for them, she is obviously quite a literal child. I wonder where she gets that from? As she left the room I turned to my wife and asked her how my hair looked. "It looks like it has been cut by a 3yr old", she said, which answered the other question too.

    Good planning on my part to cut my insulating hair off just in time for this wonderfully warm cycling weather…


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    #197
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Had good fun pedalling out to watch the Lucan GP, doing a reverse lap and taking photos as I went. Home via the back roads until I got to near Ongar, when I decided to try a different route in the hope of finding a short-cut. Turns out the short-cut was just the N3.

    Joining it at this junction - http://goo.gl/maps/2575f - I'm in the middle lane, as I'm going right, but will be keeping left thereafter. Crossing over the motorway, cars moving past me in the right-hand lane, I hear a beep from behind me. I turn to see what the matter is, and the driver immediately behind me lifts his hands from the steering wheel, but I can't really tell if it's a "wtf?" gesture aimed at me, or someone who's beeping at him for not going that fast because I'm in front of him.
    We make the turn, and I pull over into the hard shoulder and he comes past. His passenger winds down the window and shouts something unintelligible at me. In hindsight, I really hope it was definitely an insult (it had the tone of one), and I also need to work on my standard '**** you pal' response.

    With most of my feel-good vibe now subsided, I continue merrily along the N3. Only to discover the bus lane is full of roadworks and blocked off by traffic cones. yay! Unto the breach betsy! Am wondering if it's best to stick to the gutter, and let the 100kmph traffic past, or take the lane and pray people are aware and able enough to move into the over-taking lane. After one close overtake too many in the gutter, I take the lane.

    Get back into the city in one piece. Coming through Cabra, a car turns across me from the other side of the road, and I have to brake pretty sharp. He gives a friendly wave, and I realise the guy behind probably gave him a flash of the headlights. Narrow piece of road up ahead, it's going to be hard for him to overtake safely, and now I'm not in the mood to give him any help.
    Van up ahead has stopped in the road, looks like he's debating parallel parking. Stick the hand out and glance behind before I start moving out to get around him... but wait, what's this? The eejit behind has decided now, with a stopped vehicle further up the road, now is the perfect time to overtake me. He's boxing me in, but there's no room for him to go around the van with oncoming traffic, so what does he do? Of course, pull back in to the left on top of me. I sprint out ahead of him, around the van, and leave the muppet behind. I may have yelled, "are you crazy?".

    Also, I just remembered the large white van which cut across me to break some pedestrian lights. Took that reg down, looking forward to calling Traffic Watch amarach.


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    #198
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Went for a spin with my wife today, first time in over 6 months that we've had the opportunity to head out on the bikes for a decent spin together and the patches of extremely rare blue sky gave us the perfect excuse. Given the "seasonal" weather my wife donned her winter kit, while I donned my deep winter kit (yes, I'm a wuss). My wife wore an Assos umaJack jacket, I wore an Assos FuguJack (an impulse buy last year when it was on offer for a great price, it has only been seeing the light of day this Spring!). It will come as no surprise to those familiar with Assos jackets that we both looked like we'd stepped straight out of Star Trek. I mentioned it to my wife, thinking I was being hilarious. My wife, in her blue jacket, noted casually that I was the one wearing the red jacket, and despite not being a fan of Star Trek even I know the rule about who dies first. The hilarity ceased, and we headed off.

    It was a great day to be on the bike, dry and bright, and our gear fended off the cold very well. The wilds of Dublin/Wicklow looked great. The threat of my impending doom drifted into the background. Not even the sick and horrible sight of a dead horse near Kilteel put a grim slant on the day for long. And even the headwind on the way home was fine.

    About 5km from home a (largely white) van came up behind us. We were on a narrow road and we went single file, model cyclists that we are. We expected that the driver would wait for an appropriate moment to overtake, clearly overtaking us there and then on a solid white line and approaching a blind bend was not the time to do it. Turns out the driver was operating off a different script, the one where the crew member in red dies first but is not the only victim. In what appeared to be an effort to keep to his side of the white line he skimmed past my elbow at speed before doing likewise to my wife and drove merrily on his way, being trailed by some enthusiastic gestures and less then complimentary shouts from me. We should obviously have just stayed two abreast, it was a classic example of why that is sometimes safer. So an otherwise very enjoyable spin, blotted only by one incident of utterly gob****e driving (and by the sight of the dead horse, most likely killed either by direct abuse or neglect - some people are truly bastards).


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    #199
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Shame you didn't have the photon torpedoes to hand. Those things are made for white vans.


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    #200
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Cycling home the other morning, had overtaken a blue bike 100 metres before a junction. Pulled into the queue of bikes that were there when the guy who had already been overtaken by two people waiting in the queue, scooted up the outside of traffic, pulled in, in front of everyone. Didn't delay anyone though as after stopping, he decided to move again when the light went green for crossing traffic.

    Overtook him 1.5 minutes later, stopped at the next red which he barrelled through nearly clipping a pedestrian crossing on a green man. Again I overtook him, he rolled through a red at ballsbridge but got caught at the next one as the crossing traffic was too heavy although I could see him itching to cross.

    I shouted over that his helmet was too small (it was a child/teenage size and he had a giant hat underneath it). He turned and asked me to repeat myself. I told him his helmet was too small, would probably not be very useful when he goes splat on the road, like he nearly did when he ran through the two reds back there (a few cars slammed on their brakes and a pedestrian hopped out of the way).

    He turned to me to point out that my helmet was also the wrong size, I informed him that I wasn't wearing one, smiled, light went green, I overtook him 20 seconds later and left him behind.

    Got caught at every red on the way and he overtook me at a right turn on red, where he turned around to say Goodbye, smile and then skimmed a pedestrian (who fell backwards trying to balance himself) but he just cycled on.

    Yay, a commuter race, well not really, he was clearly trying to pull away so I dropped down a gear, waited for the hill to start and then poddled past, smiling. I really wanted to give out sh1t to him for skimming that guy but what was the point, he already showed that me trying to be helpful was dangerous as it took away what little road awareness he had. There was minor satisfaction in his stupid out of breath face.


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    #201
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Heading to Beaumont Hospital this morning, moseying along the Swords Road. Sitting behind a bus at Griffith Avenue junction red, light goes green, he drives off, I follow. Move around his outside as he pulls in at the bus stop, slight incline, I'm riding along steadily though.

    Bus comes up behind me, driver beeps once. I turn around and motion him to over take me. There's a standard traffic lane beside the bus lane, plenty of room for him to move out and around. Head back down, keep pedalling. He doesn't over take though, sitting behind me for another short while, and I realise with a sinking realisation what's coming next... he rumbles by, slowly enough, but leaves only inches to spare. I focus on not deviating from my completely straight line, let off the pedals to slow down and let him past quicker.

    *sigh* ****ing hell. He gets caught straight away at the Regency lights. Up to the window, 'what was that?' "You should be using the cycle lane." "This is the bus and cycle lane." Window closes, I'm exasperated as he drives off.

    Sitting behind him as he drives off? A Garda car! Oh happy days! This is going to be great! (Following conversation is paraphrased.)

    "Garda, can you have a word with that guy, he just used his bus to intimidate me and perform a dangerous overtake!"
    "I saw the whole thing, it was grand. He indicated and pulled out, and pulled back in when he passed you. Sure you should be in the cycle lane anyway. I could charge you for holding up traffic."
    "..." "He left a few inches, that's not a safe overtake. And I'm allowed use the road here - I can show you the sign designating it a bus and cycle lane back there. And I need to make a right turn up ahead, which is hard to do from the left-side footpath."
    "Look, you're clearly a sensible man, you're wearing hi-viz*, Would you not just use the cycle lane on the path? It's safer for you."
    (I've realised there's no point talking to this Garda.) "So you're going to let him use his bus to threaten other people? What if he hits the next guy?"
    "Well sure, if that happens we'll charge him. Take care now!"

    *I was wearing a chartreuse jacket, no reflective details.

    And with that, my faith in the Gardaí as ever being able to take the perspective of a cyclist died. This is exactly why there should be a 1.5m safe passing law. Time to email Leo again.


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    #202
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Also, in shocking news, I had a calm conversation with a taxi driver on the way home from the race on Sunday. Around the same patch of road - bus lane, lots of room to overtake - myself and CillianL were two abreast having a chat, when a taxi driver said something as he passed.

    He was stuck at the lights up ahead, so I rolled up to him.
    "Lads, you shouldn't be cycling two abreast, you could cause an accident."
    "There's plenty of room to overtake in the next lane."
    "I know, but I might not see that car (motions to someone in the next lane), it might not be safe."

    wut? So we can't have a chat because you might not check your blind spot while performing your professional duties as a driver? :rolleyes:


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    #203
    route66
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭route66


    buffalo wrote: »
    Heading to Beaumont Hospital this morning, moseying along the Swords Road. Sitting behind a bus at Griffith Avenue junction red, light goes green, he drives off, I follow. Move around his outside as he pulls in at the bus stop, slight incline, I'm riding along steadily though.

    Bus comes up behind me, driver beeps once. I turn around and motion him to over take me. There's a standard traffic lane beside the bus lane, plenty of room for him to move out and around. Head back down, keep pedalling. He doesn't over take though, sitting behind me for another short while, and I realise with a sinking realisation what's coming next... he rumbles by, slowly enough, but leaves only inches to spare. I focus on not deviating from my completely straight line, let off the pedals to slow down and let him past quicker.

    *sigh* ****ing hell. He gets caught straight away at the Regency lights. Up to the window, 'what was that?' "You should be using the cycle lane." "This is the bus and cycle lane." Window closes, I'm exasperated as he drives off.

    Sitting behind him as he drives off? A Garda car! Oh happy days! This is going to be great! (Following conversation is paraphrased.)

    "Garda, can you have a word with that guy, he just used his bus to intimidate me and perform a dangerous overtake!"
    "I saw the whole thing, it was grand. He indicated and pulled out, and pulled back in when he passed you. Sure you should be in the cycle lane anyway. I could charge you for holding up traffic."
    "..." "He left a few inches, that's not a safe overtake. And I'm allowed use the road here - I can show you the sign designating it a bus and cycle lane back there. And I need to make a right turn up ahead, which is hard to do from the left-side footpath."
    "Look, you're clearly a sensible man, you're wearing hi-viz*, Would you not just use the cycle lane on the path? It's safer for you."
    (I've realised there's no point talking to this Garda.) "So you're going to let him use his bus to threaten other people? What if he hits the next guy?"
    "Well sure, if that happens we'll charge him. Take care now!"

    *I was wearing a chartreuse jacket, no reflective details.

    And with that, my faith in the Gardaí as ever being able to take the perspective of a cyclist died. This is exactly why there should be a 1.5m safe passing law. Time to email Leo again.

    Dunno ...

    Not knowing the area too well, I had a quick look using Google Street maps.

    @ the junction at Griffith Avenue, this Google Street view link clearly shows that the Bus lane is dual use. 50-75 metres further on, this street view shows a sign that indicates the cycle path is now on the left of the bus lane and this link @ the Regency - 200 metres on again - shows a sign indicating the bus lane is not dual use with another sign repeating the earlier one: the cycle path is on the left of the bus lane.

    I'm not too well up on the specifics here - i.e.
    • Are cyclists always allowed to use a bus lane or is it only when it is marked as dual use.
    • Does a sign showing the cycle lane as being on the left of the bus lane also dictate bikes may no longer use the bus lane.
    • Is there a sign that states cyclists may not use the bus lane.
    But, whatever about the legal situation, why not just use the cycle lane for the sake of your own comfort & safety? And then when you get to your junction, stop, and cross the road at that point? I'm not saying the bus driver was right to intimidate you, or to do such a close overtake, but was he right about your use of the bus lane? It can't be very nice having a bus beeping inches behind your back wheel :eek:

    Reading you posts, if your experience is representative it appears that urban cycling is really not a very nice thing, is dangerous and stressful. As much as possible, I try to do my cycling on quiet roads, mostly in rural areas; easy enough for me to do because most of what I do on the bike is for fitness and recreation only. Other than when I'm using my bike - purchased on the BTW scheme - cough to, eh, cycle to work every day, I rarely commute on my bike...

    Anyway, with all that harassment going on, did you get a KOM on the segment? ;)


  • Options
    #204
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    route66 wrote: »
    I'm not too well up on the specifics here - i.e.
    • Are cyclists always allowed to use a bus lane or is it only when it is marked as dual use.
    • Does a sign showing the cycle lane as being on the left of the bus lane also dictate bikes may no longer use the bus lane.
    • Is there a sign that states cyclists may not use the bus lane.
    But, whatever about the legal situation, why not just use the cycle lane for the sake of your own comfort & safety? And then when you get to your junction, stop, and cross the road at that point? I'm not saying the bus driver was right to intimidate you, or to do such a close overtake, but was he right about your use of the bus lane? It can't be very nice having a bus beeping inches behind your back wheel :eek:

    - All with flow bus lanes are open to cyclists and the only legal sign for a with flow bus lane includes a bicycle symbol.
    - It used to be that contra-flow bus lanes were not open to cyclists but I can't remember if that was changed recently.
    - Cycle lanes are not compulsory for cyclists
    - Is a cycle lane that requires you to stop not self-evidently unsafe or have some other problem?
    - Whether or not the cyclist was in the right or wrong - is it OK to threaten someone with a bus?


  • Options
    #205
    route66
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭route66


    galwaycyclist wrote: »

    <SNIP>

    - Whether or not the cyclist was in the right or wrong - is it OK to threaten someone with a bus?

    As I already said above: "I'm not saying the bus driver was right to intimidate you, or to do such a close overtake"
    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    - Is a cycle lane that requires you to stop not self-evidently unsafe or have some other problem?

    Hardly ideal, but at least buses won't harass or intimidate you when you use it.

    To (re)clarify my point, I'm just saying it's better to be pragmatic and alive than all righteous and dead. Nobody would disagree that more could be done to improve cycling infrastructure.


  • Options
    #206
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    route66 wrote: »
    than all righteous and dead. Nobody would disagree that more could be done to improve cycling infrastructure.

    Surely this story shows that fastest, cheapest and easiest way to improve cycling infrastructure would be to address the attitudes, training and behaviour of bus drivers and members of the Garda (among others)?

    Or am I missing something?


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    #207
    Zyzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Zyzz


    Ive found there is a hefty majority of Dublin Bus drivers that are absolute scumbags when it comes to cyclists. Punishment passing is becoming a serious issue, just because there is a cycle lane (which a lot of the time is in rag order), we HAVE to use it, otherwise we have our lives put at risk by an arsehole with a 10 tonne piece of metal..

    Unless something is done, I fear that in the very near future there will be a headline involving Dublin Bus and a cyclist who was seriously injured or killed.


  • Options
    #208
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    route66 wrote:
    Reading you posts, if your experience is representative it appears that urban cycling is really not a very nice thing, is dangerous and stressful.

    I don't think that urban cycling is dangerous, and whether it is stressful depends on the day in my experience. I certainly don't find it as relaxing as my "fun" rides that I do at weekends, but that's mainly just because commute cycling is by nature typically done when lots of other people are commuting too so you are having to keep your eyes on so many more road users at any one time. And because people are usually in a rush either to get to work or get home tempers can be a bit more frayed along a commute route versus along a quieter route that you might choose if you didn't have any particular destination or deadline in mind. That fraying of tempers, and the impatience that often goes hand in hand with it, can mean that an extremely minor occurrence (like a bus driver being delayed by a few seconds) can yield an exaggerated and fiery response and as an onlooker in particular you can be left with the impression that urban cycling is routinely hostile and dangerous. It mostly isn't though.

    While I don't find it dangerous, as such, commuting by bike is very much a utilitarian exercise for me and it's not the kind of cycling that I enjoy best. Having said that though, of the various commuting options available I consider cycling to be far and away the best and most appealing so I'm happier commuting by bike than by any other means. There are certainly aggressive people out there, and unfortunately some of them are behind the wheels of some large vehicles, but they are not representative. There are quite a few more careless people out there though, who you have to be just as wary of, but cycling with awareness will usually see you safely through any encounters with them.


  • Options
    #209
    nomdeboardie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie


    buffalo wrote: »
    Heading to Beaumont Hospital this morning, moseying along the Swords Road. Sitting behind a bus at Griffith Avenue junction red, light goes green, he drives off, I follow. Move around his outside as he pulls in at the bus stop, slight incline, I'm riding along steadily though.

    Bus comes up behind me, driver beeps once. I turn around and motion him to over take me. There's a standard traffic lane beside the bus lane, plenty of room for him to move out and around. Head back down, keep pedalling. He doesn't over take though, sitting behind me for another short while, and I realise with a sinking realisation what's coming next... he rumbles by, slowly enough, but leaves only inches to spare. I focus on not deviating from my completely straight line, let off the pedals to slow down and let him past quicker.

    *sigh* ****ing hell. He gets caught straight away at the Regency lights. Up to the window, 'what was that?' "You should be using the cycle lane." "This is the bus and cycle lane." Window closes, I'm exasperated as he drives off.

    Sitting behind him as he drives off? A Garda car! Oh happy days! This is going to be great! (Following conversation is paraphrased.)

    "Garda, can you have a word with that guy, he just used his bus to intimidate me and perform a dangerous overtake!"
    "I saw the whole thing, it was grand. He indicated and pulled out, and pulled back in when he passed you. Sure you should be in the cycle lane anyway. I could charge you for holding up traffic."
    "..." "He left a few inches, that's not a safe overtake. And I'm allowed use the road here - I can show you the sign designating it a bus and cycle lane back there. And I need to make a right turn up ahead, which is hard to do from the left-side footpath."
    "Look, you're clearly a sensible man, you're wearing hi-viz*, Would you not just use the cycle lane on the path? It's safer for you."
    (I've realised there's no point talking to this Garda.) "So you're going to let him use his bus to threaten other people? What if he hits the next guy?"
    "Well sure, if that happens we'll charge him. Take care now!"

    *I was wearing a chartreuse jacket, no reflective details.

    And with that, my faith in the Gardaí as ever being able to take the perspective of a cyclist died. This is exactly why there should be a 1.5m safe passing law. Time to email Leo again.

    Registered letter to

    Public Affairs Department
    Dublin Bus
    59 Upper O’Connell Street
    Dublin 1

    gets their attention, as I said here
    (response to second incident includes the words "I have requested mobile CCTV footage of the incident and the driver will be identified and spoken to subject to our Internal Disciplinary Procedure. We will also be monitoring the route closely in the coming weeks to try to ensure there is no repeat of such an incident.", for what they're worth.)

    These days I try to remember my little folded-up copy of the of the 2 attached documents, one printed on each side of the paper, in case I have to try to argue again "in the wild"...


  • Options
    #210
    nomdeboardie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie


    buffalo wrote: »
    Also, in shocking news, I had a calm conversation with a taxi driver on the way home from the race on Sunday. Around the same patch of road - bus lane, lots of room to overtake - myself and CillianL were two abreast having a chat, when a taxi driver said something as he passed.

    He was stuck at the lights up ahead, so I rolled up to him.
    "Lads, you shouldn't be cycling two abreast, you could cause an accident."
    "There's plenty of room to overtake in the next lane."
    "I know, but I might not see that car (motions to someone in the next lane), it might not be safe."

    wut? So we can't have a chat because you might not check your blind spot while performing your professional duties as a driver? :rolleyes:
    After all those screenings of that new RSA clip about overtaking cyclists, including the pointed reference to two-abreast, and the sinister smiling cyclist-in-red and all :eek::confused:


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  • Options
    #211
    Zyzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Zyzz


    buffalo wrote: »
    Also, in shocking news, I had a calm conversation with a taxi driver on the way home from the race on Sunday. Around the same patch of road - bus lane, lots of room to overtake - myself and CillianL were two abreast having a chat, when a taxi driver said something as he passed.

    He was stuck at the lights up ahead, so I rolled up to him.
    "Lads, you shouldn't be cycling two abreast, you could cause an accident."
    "There's plenty of room to overtake in the next lane."
    "I know, but I might not see that car (motions to someone in the next lane), it might not be safe."

    wut? So we can't have a chat because you might not check your blind spot while performing your professional duties as a driver? :rolleyes:

    :confused:


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