Rail review and consultation launched

monument · 15-11-2016 10:03pm #1

The report is here.

The NTA's railway review page is here.

Here's the press release from the NTA:

The National Transport Authority and Iarnród Éireann have launched a process of consultation around the Rail Review 2016 Report, which was published today.

The Rail Review examines the network as it currently operates, and analyses the potential of the network to meet national, economic, social and environmental objectives into the future.

The process of public consultation gets under way today and continues until close of business on Wednesday 18th January 2017.

National Transport Authority CEO Anne Graham said:

“Rail has a huge role to play as an economic driver in terms of bringing about balanced regional development. It also delivers social benefits by improving social inclusion, improving accessibility and mobility, and making travel safer. In addition, it provides real environmental benefits by reducing emissions and improving air quality.

“But these benefits do not come free of charge, and if safeguarding them into the future is to become a genuine priority, there must be a commitment to give our rail network the support it will need in the years ahead.

“The Rail Review looks at the investment required to operate, maintain and develop the network, identifies the funding gap that has arisen, and examines the options around closing that gap.

“Starting today, we are actively consulting with the public on the prioritisation of rail services. We are very anxious to get a wide a range of views, and we want to engage with as many people as possible in this process, including members of local communities, rail users, employers, and any other interested parties.”

Iarnród Éireann CEO David Franks said:

“As our economy recovers and demand for rail services grows, Iarnród Éireann wants to play a strong role in meeting the transport needs of the country.

“However, this can only happen in a sustainably funded environment. The Rail Review shows the costs and revenues associated with all sections of our network, and provides independent analysis and data which will allow all stakeholders to make an informed contribution to the Authority’s public consultations and decisions on our future, and how we address the funding gap which exists.

“A sustainably funded railway will ensure Iarnród Éireann can focus on meeting commuter demand, and on the transport, economic and environmental needs of our country in line with the Authority’s strategy and the Government’s policy framework. I encourage anyone who has an interest in these issues to contribute to the public consultation launched today.”

Written submissions and observations may be made:

By downloading the form in the Public Consultations section of our website and returning to: railconsultation@nationaltransport.ie
By email: to railconsultation@nationaltransport.ie
By post to: Rail Consultation, NTA, Dun Scéine, Iveagh Ct, Harcourt Lane, Dublin 2, D02 WT20

monument · 15-11-2016 10:20pm

Key graphics from page 80:

Grandeeod · 15-11-2016 10:55pm

Another review.

Wash, rince, repeat.

And this is a genuine contribution in case someone thinks I'm trolling.

marno21 · 15-11-2016 11:19pm

The figure here for Limerick - Galway is slightly skewed. Surely Ennis-Limerick requires less subvention than the joke north of Ennis?

Either way, surely shoots stone dead any idea of a service to Tuam/Claremorris/Collooney? Dual the N17 north of Tuam and provide buses.

Carawaystick · 15-11-2016 11:37pm

Does the report explain how the Athenry-Galway section is split and not affected by Dublin Galway?

Del.Monte · 16-11-2016 9:15am

I've heard several figures sloshing around in the coverage of this review and I would like to know what is the ball park figure to be saved by closing the WRC, Limerick/Ballybrophy and Limerick Junction/Waterford? As a percentage of CIE's ongoing annual losses I suspect it will make little or no difference as there's precious little being spent on the three lines in question.

Del.Monte · 16-11-2016 9:17am

Well known anti-rail charlatan 'Dr' Sean Barrett now being interviewed by Coleman on Newstalk.

Surprise, surprise even Sean Barrett highlights the deliberate ru nn-down of Rosslare and asks why CIE moved the station out of the port. But Coleman is back with his rubbish about cheaper to put everyone in taxis'/limos. In years to come media people like Coleman will be judged as being part of the reason that railways were eliminated in much the same way as other influential hacks like as Pat Kenny did nothing while the drugs epidemic spiralled out of control from the 1970s onwards.

Del.Monte · 16-11-2016 10:05am

Barry Kenny on Pat Kenny now with lightweight Jonathan Healy so will be a really trivial piece.

Del.Monte · 16-11-2016 10:06am

'Limerick - Ballybrophy has been closed for a long time' - Healy - need I say more. :rolleyes:

eastwest · 16-11-2016 12:50pm

I'd like to know whether this report now mans that Shane Ross will tell his IA colleague Sean Canney that his 'red line' issue in the programme for government -- the funding of an expensive study on the WRC north of Athenry -- is off the table. Is Ross an IA member first, or a Transport Minister?
I think we should be told.

n97 mini · 16-11-2016 1:56pm

Listened to the Newstalk clip with Sean Barrett. Some interesting points.

Report makes no mention of productivity. Average salary in IE is €61k.

Interesting that with the re-opening of the PPT that without a stop in Heuston it won't be possible to use for it for transfers. e.g. someone going Belfast to Galway will still end up using the Luas. (Though part of that problem is the connections between the commuter and intercity trains is brutal along along the Kildare line, making connections in places like Hazelhatch almost an impossibility)

Boulevardier · 16-11-2016 2:58pm

I didn't hear Sean Barrett on the radio, but on past performance he is viciously anti-railways and would close most of them in a second if he could.

As for the NTA, their neoliberal policies have already undermined the competitiveness of CIE, and are likely to do more damage in the forseeable future.

monument · 16-11-2016 3:21pm

Given the money the State pays for railways, I'd also like to see the wider benefits costed or estimated in some way.

And not just for passengers, 17 containers just pass by the window of the train I'm on -- that's 17 trucks off the road network for most of their journey, there's a safety, maintenance and environmental saving to the State and the economy there.

eastwest · 16-11-2016 3:25pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I've heard several figures sloshing around in the coverage of this review and I would like to know what is the ball park figure to be saved by closing the WRC, Limerick/Ballybrophy and Limerick Junction/Waterford? As a percentage of CIE's ongoing annual losses I suspect it will make little or no difference as there's precious little being spent on the three lines in question.

There is ongoing maintenance plus passenger subsidy; it's quite a substantial amount judging by the report.
I waded through it last night but I'm not going to do it again! The figures are all there though.

Infini · 16-11-2016 4:08pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Report makes no mention of productivity. Average salary in IE is €61k.

I wouldnt trust those averages tbh they're usually distorted by adding in management positions and overtime into the arithmetic to bump up the average.

monument · 16-11-2016 4:23pm

Just spotted another 12 containers heading west... so, nearly 30 trucks off the road today alone.

Plus another, I think, 11 timber wagons -- so, at least 40 trucks off the road.

Del.Monte · 16-11-2016 5:36pm

You couldn't make this stuff up. People (Govt) seemed to think that build motorways and that would be that - no need for maintenance. :rolleyes:

The State’s new motorway network, worth an estimated €30 billion, is on a deteriorating spiral with not enough money being spent to keep it on “steady state” maintenance, according to Transport Infrastructure Ireland

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/not-enough-being-spent-on-state-s-30bn-motorway-network-1.2870122

€800 million to build a motorway linking two medium sized towns.

n97 mini · 16-11-2016 7:03pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

You couldn't make this stuff up. People (Govt) seemed to think that build motorways and that would be that - no need for maintenance. :rolleyes:

The State’s new motorway network, worth an estimated €30 billion, is on a deteriorating spiral with not enough money being spent to keep it on “steady state” maintenance, according to Transport Infrastructure Ireland

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/not-enough-being-spent-on-state-s-30bn-motorway-network-1.2870122

€800 million to build a motorway linking two medium sized towns.

Part of the roads problem is we have too many. No roads were closed when motorways opened. Public money being spent maintaining what are essentially private driveways needs to stop.

marno21 · 16-11-2016 11:50pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

You couldn't make this stuff up. People (Govt) seemed to think that build motorways and that would be that - no need for maintenance. :rolleyes:

The State’s new motorway network, worth an estimated €30 billion, is on a deteriorating spiral with not enough money being spent to keep it on “steady state” maintenance, according to Transport Infrastructure Ireland

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/not-enough-being-spent-on-state-s-30bn-motorway-network-1.2870122

€800 million to build a motorway linking two medium sized towns.

800 million to finish our motorway network and connect our 2nd and 3rd cities. You can call them towns all you like but they are still the 2nd and 3rd biggest population centres in the country, have 2 airports, 2 TEN-T core ports, 2 universities etc between them.

It seems to me that Michael Nolan's comments are being misinterpreted. He's said before that TII don't have the funds to maintain most of the existing national network. Roads such as the N17 and N24 which were never built for either the volume of traffic using them or HGVs etc and are constantly crumbling. By right these should be replaced with 21st century roads.

afatbollix · 16-11-2016 11:54pm

So not even the dart pulls a profit. Tbh I think something is wrong here with the whole system.

Hilly Bill · 17-11-2016 12:13am

n97 mini wrote: »

Listened to the Newstalk clip with Sean Barrett. Some interesting points.

Report makes no mention of productivity. Average salary in IE is €61k.

Interesting that with the re-opening of the PPT that without a stop in Heuston it won't be possible to use for it for transfers. e.g. someone going Belfast to Galway will still end up using the Luas. (Though part of that problem is the connections between the commuter and intercity trains is brutal along along the Kildare line, making connections in places like Hazelhatch almost an impossibility)

Average salary? The majority are close to half that.

marno21 · 17-11-2016 12:16am

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/prime-time-extras-30003379/10650322/

Prime Time piece on this. Some nonsense from Kelly. No one is coming to invest in North Tipp because of the railway line.

n97 mini · 17-11-2016 2:42pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Average salary? The majority are close to half that.

If that's the case the minority are on more than double for it to average.

What is the salary scale for a driver, say? Out of curiosity.

elastico · 17-11-2016 3:19pm

marno21 wrote: »

The figure here for Limerick - Galway is slightly skewed. Surely Ennis-Limerick requires less subvention than the joke north of Ennis?

Closing Ennis - Athenry will save very little, if anything.

The same amount of rolling stock and drivers will more or less be needed and closing the middle section will also result in fewer passengers on the other sections.

Cookie_Monster · 17-11-2016 8:58pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Average salary? The majority are close to half that.

If we go with your assumption and say 50% are on around half that then the other 50% average about 92k a year

If we say 75% majority then that leaves the others on 154k avg a year!

I seriously doubt those numbers and would suggest the lower end is far higher than 30k to make those numbers work.

got any supporting evidence for your claim?

n97 mini · 17-11-2016 9:09pm

IE grades and payscales are in this from 2014. What an astonishing number of grades for an organisation with less than 4k employees.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/1605_foi_publication_scheme_final.pdf

Itssoeasy · 17-11-2016 9:14pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

'Limerick - Ballybrophy has been closed for a long time' - Healy - need I say more. :rolleyes:

I'd say that came as a shock to the people using that line.

schemingbohemia · 18-11-2016 11:32am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'd say that came as a shock to the people using that line.

All ten of them......

Del.Monte · 18-11-2016 12:39pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

All ten of them......

And why do you think numbers are so low instead of just parroting the official CIE/Government mantra.

loyatemu · 18-11-2016 1:20pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Part of the roads problem is we have too many. No roads were closed when motorways opened. Public money being spent maintaining what are essentially private driveways needs to stop.

there was a discussion about this on the Infrastructure->Roads board a while back. We have a lot of roads km per head of population, and there are many that service only one or two houses that (apparently) in other countries would not be publicly maintained.

The flip side of that is that local councils are not maintaining even the busier roads, so I doubt they're spending very much on these boreens. I was driving around south wexford earlier this year and many of the R roads clearly haven't been resurfaced for 10 years or more and are in rag order.

n97 mini · 18-11-2016 4:20pm

loyatemu wrote: »

there was a discussion about this on the Infrastructure->Roads board a while back. We have a lot of roads km per head of population, and there are many that service only one or two houses that (apparently) in other countries would not be publicly maintained.

The flip side of that is that local councils are not maintaining even the busier roads, so I doubt they're spending very much on these boreens. I was driving around south wexford earlier this year and many of the R roads clearly haven't been resurfaced for 10 years or more and are in rag order.

Wexford and Galway have the highest proportion of one-offs in Ireland. I know someone living in Wexford with 150m of road frontage who belly aches about the council not resurfacing "our road". I suggested he do it himself.

Rail review and consultation launched

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