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The state of comments online about road traffic deaths and cycling

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12357…10

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    #122
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,739 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I drove and cycled in Spain a lot during the summer and close passing doesn't seem to be a national past time there. The hate for cyclists doesn't appear to be there.


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    #123
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Yes spain very pleasant. Lots of the roads in the sierra nevadas are narrow but motorists seem to manage passing with out being an arse. Also France - have cycled in north South East and west. Again narrow rural roads in Brittany, the dorgogne, jura and the alps. Zero issues. Have cycled in Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland - different level when it comes to courtesy and mature use of shared space. All very pleasant. Goes for driving as well. Universally a more pleasant experience compared to here and I'm looking forward to a long continental drive when this pandemic passes. Goes for large European cities like Naples and the larger French cities. Yes people can be aggressive and that's to be expected with city driving but just not on the same level of laziness, sloppiness and general dopiness you see on the roads here every day whether on 2 wheels or 4.


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    #124
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    My observation of cycle hate being normalised is largely in Anglophone countries - ourselves and the UK seem to be united in this. It's almost an officially endorsed position in the UK. Australia and the US as well. Drove the length and breath of New Zealand a few years back and a similar car centric attitide to here. Some cyclists have I saw doing the road from Franz Josef to Christchurch intimidated by close passing and beeping motorists.


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    #125
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,363 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    SeanW wrote: »
    The evidence is clear. Irish motoring culture represents best practice. That is reflected in global road safety rankings clearly showing that the inherent risks of road safety (which exist everywhere) are well managed in this country. There is no country (except Monaco) where nobody dies on the roads. (and even there, I'm not sure they never have fatalities, just not in the quoted reference year).

    An Irish cyclist accusing anybody of law breaking is absolutely hypocrisy. I must admit that it takes cojones to blatantly gaslight people to that level.

    Road fatalities are a fact of life, all over the world. That's just an unfortunate reality. But the evidence that you claim is "not relevant" shows that the risks are well managed in this country. Which is probably why you claim it is "not particularly relevant."

    Gaslighting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP6EwqMEoE


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    #126
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,841 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    SeanW wrote: »
    The evidence is clear. Irish motoring culture represents best practice.
    Surely, you're trying to wind us up?


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    #127
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,363 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Surely, you're trying to wind us up?

    I think he might be gaslighting.


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    #128
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    I think he might be gaslighting.

    Winding up a gas light. Or else his motoring experience based on one motorist hostile housing estate somewhere in the country.


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    #129
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Yes but I think the core of the issue is if a pedestrian or motorist is killed in a collision it barely gets a comment. Even when its evident from the story that speed was a factor. There's also never a hint of speeding, drink/ driving or texting being complicit. You'll never read "I saw a driver breaking the speed limit once so it must have something to do with this" or "there's a lots of people drinking and driving so this must have had something to do with it". It's just kind of accepted in car culture here.

    A cyclist is killed and there's a stream of comments about the usual - insurance tax hi vis helmets - and many toxic comments - with complete insensitivity to what's happened. Someone's dad or brother or husband has died it's almost like it's not a human being that's died, it's just a cyclist.

    Also anecdotes seem to feature highly "i once saw a cyclist / group of cyclists doing x or y". Somehow this has contributed and the cyclist was at fault. Also the attire seems to some how matter "i once saw a cyclist coming against me in full kit". Not necessarily on this story, but people commenting that cyclists should be run over / run off the roads not unusual either.

    It's just kind of strange that it's only cycling that brings out such toxicity. It's similar to the toxic comments in the UK, Australian and US media. For some reason Anglophone countries seem to bring out a similar toxic reaction.

    I think we're just tired of it at this stage.


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    #130
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Yes but I think the core of the issue is if a pedestrian or motorist is killed in a collision it barely gets a comment. Even when its evident from the story that speed was a factor. There's also never a hint of speeding, drink/ driving or texting being complicit. "I saw a driver breaking the speed limit once so it must have something to do with this" or "there's a lots of people drinking and driving so this must have had something to do with it". It's just kind of accepted in car culture here.

    A cyclist is killed and there's a stream of comments about the usual - insurance tax hi vis vis tax - and many toxic comments - with complete insemsivity to what's happened. Someone's dad or brother or husband has died it's almost like it's not a human being that's died, it's a cyclist.

    Also anecdotes seem to feature highly "i once saw a cyclist / group of cyclists doing x or y". Somwhow this has contributed and the cyclist was at fault. Also the attire seems to some how matter "i once saw a cyclist coming against me in full kit". Not necessarily on this story, but people commenting that cyclists should be run over / run off the roads not unusual either.

    It's just kind of strange that it's only cycling that brings out such toxicity. It's similar to the toxic comments in the UK, Australian and US media. For some reason Anglophone countries seem to bring out a similar toxic reaction.

    I think we're just tired of it at this stage.

    I actually don't normally read RIP condolences unless it's someone I know and then I'll stick to RIP.ie , only if it's mentioned on thread would I go to a FB thread but the amount of bile that a simple comment such as "Thinking of both the cyclists family and the car driver tough on both families" attracts is beyond belief.


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    #131
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I actually don't normally read RIP condolences unless it's someone I know and then I'll stick to RIP.ie , only if it's mentioned on thread would I go to a FB thread but the amount of bile that a simple comment such as "Thinking of both the cyclists family and the car driver tough on both families" attracts is beyond belief.

    I think the journal should close comments for cycling related death stories. The fact it was among the most commented on stories on a bank holiday Sunday says more about us.


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    #132
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Yes but I think the core of the issue is if a pedestrian or motorist is killed in a collision it barely gets a comment. Even when its evident from the story that speed was a factor. There's also never a hint of speeding, drink/ driving or texting being complicit. You'll never read "I saw a driver breaking the speed limit once so it must have something to do with this" or "there's a lots of people drinking and driving so this must have had something to do with it". It's just kind of accepted in car culture here.

    A cyclist is killed and there's a stream of comments about the usual - insurance tax hi vis helmets - and many toxic comments - with complete insensitivity to what's happened. Someone's dad or brother or husband has died it's almost like it's not a human being that's died, it's just a cyclist.

    Also anecdotes seem to feature highly "i once saw a cyclist / group of cyclists doing x or y". Somehow this has contributed and the cyclist was at fault. Also the attire seems to some how matter "i once saw a cyclist coming against me in full kit". Not necessarily on this story, but people commenting that cyclists should be run over / run off the roads not unusual either.

    It's just kind of strange that it's only cycling that brings out such toxicity. It's similar to the toxic comments in the UK, Australian and US media. For some reason Anglophone countries seem to bring out a similar toxic reaction.

    I think we're just tired of it at this stage.

    There's nothing to indicate that speed was a factor in that report from the journal.ie, and only the report in https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/witness-appeals-after-deaths-two-19165255 mentions the fact that the cyclist was going downhill
    Investigations have begun into the deaths of two men in their sixties in separate road accidents in Cork over the weekend with Gardai appealing for witnesses.

    In East Cork, a Polish national in his mid-60s was killed while riding his bike on the Lower Corkhill Road in Youghal at around 7pm on Saturday evening.

    The man, who had been living in Youghal, had been going down the hill when he was involved in an incident with a car coming in the opposite direction.

    Could have been car on wrong side of road, could have been cyclist on wrong side of road, could have been car speeding, could have been cyclist out of control on a descent, the problem is there are too many people willing to put blame somewhere when they aren't in possession of facts and then starting arguments over it


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    #133
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I think the journal should close comments for cycling related death stories. The fact it was among the most commented on stories on a bank holiday Sunday says more about us.

    The journal has 10 comments, facebook has 302 think it's more likely to be facebook users TBH


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    #134
    AlphaDelta1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭AlphaDelta1


    I've driven in most European countries as I'm a coach driver as well as having ridden my motorbike in South America, US, Russia and Northern Africa. I'd say Irish road users are above average when it comes to behaviour, not the best but by no means the worst.

    Cyclists, car drivers, bus drivers etc.. all just need to chill out a bit. Nobody owns the road.


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    #135
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There's nothing to indicate that speed was a factor in that report from the journal.ie, and only the report in https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/witness-appeals-after-deaths-two-19165255 mentions the fact that the cyclist was going downhill

    Wasn't refereeing to that specific story. I was referring to pictures of wrecked cars that indicate the car was travelling at speed. I don't agree with this either ad it's insensitive to the deceased families,
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Could have been car on wrong side of road, could have been cyclist on wrong side of road, could have been car speeding, could have been cyclist out of control on a descent, the problem is there are too many people willing to put blame somewhere when they aren't in possession of facts and then starting arguments over it

    True. But on the past where cyclists have died alone - either a heart attack or collision with an object - people seem to jump to conclusions and linking it ti the he cyclist

    After alll, they saw a group of cycists 5 abreast / in lycra / wearing no helmets / paying no road tax / in dark clothing so it must have something to do with it.


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    #136
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,350 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    AlphaDelta1 wrote: »
    I've driven in most European countries as I'm a coach driver as well as having ridden my motorbike in South America, US, Russia and Northern Africa. I'd say Irish road users are above average when it comes to behaviour, not the best but by no means the worst.

    Cyclists, car drivers, bus drivers etc.. all just need to chill out a bit. Nobody owns the road.

    Yes to this. It's become such a stupid political issue recently like everything else seems to be.

    Also I envy you it sounds like you have seen some amazing places in your time


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    #137
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Wasn't refereeing to that specific story. I was referring to pictures of wrecked cars that indicate the car was travelling at speed. I don't agree with this either ad it's insensitive to the deceased families,



    True. But on the past where cyclists have died alone - either a heart attack or collision with an object - people seem to jump to conclusions and linking it ti the he cyclist

    After alll, they saw a group of cycists 5 abreast / in lycra / wearing no helmets / paying no road tax / in dark clothing so it must have something to do with it.
    Wasn't refereeing to that specific story. I was referring to pictures of wrecked cars that indicate the car was travelling at speed. I don't agree with this either ad it's insensitive to the deceased families,
    Blame FB Twitter etc. People looking for the likes and followers. How many times do people see something happening, maybe a mugging or an assault and the instinct is get the camera phone running incase I catch something good for my FB page.


    True. But on the past where cyclists have died alone - either a heart attack or collision with an object - people seem to jump to conclusions and linking it ti the he cyclist

    I wasn't referring to the lone 60 y.o cyclist but the one involved in a fatal incident involving another vehicle.

    Pretty hard not to link it to the cyclist in the circumstances of being alone
    After alll, they saw a group of cycists 5 abreast / in lycra / wearing no helmets / paying no road tax / in dark clothing so it must have something to do with it.
    Absolutely shoot the 5 of them at least 4 times over for cycling 5 abreast, wearing Lycra, having no helmets and wearing dark clothes
    :D


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    #138
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,363 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    AlphaDelta1 wrote: »
    Cyclists, car drivers, bus drivers etc.. all just need to chill out a bit. Nobody owns the road.

    This is broadly equivalent to the All Lives Matter thinking. It misses the decades of evidence showing the actual source of danger on the roads.

    It's not cyclists who are killing two or three people each week.


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    #139
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    The journal has 10 comments, facebook has 302 think it's more likely to be facebook users TBH

    Yes but the same FB users for some reason ignore commenting on pedestrian or motorist deaths - it's almost like it's acceptable.


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    #140
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    My observation of cycle hate being normalised is largely in Anglophone countries - ourselves and the UK seem to be united in this. It's almost an officially endorsed position in the UK. Australia and the US as well. Drove the length and breath of New Zealand a few years back and a similar car centric attitide to here. Some cyclists have I saw doing the road from Franz Josef to Christchurch intimidated by close passing and beeping motorists.

    Completely agree. The whole "car culture, suburbanisation, convenience foods" package we can thank the US for has a cyclist hate aspect to it too.
    Hates city planning and public transport as well.


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    #141
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Yes but the same FB users for some reason ignore commenting on pedestrian or motorist deaths - it's almost like it's acceptable.

    Nah it would seem to me that as soon as someone says sympathy to the driver involved then the trolls all came out of the woodwork, how dare someone think that a driver might be traumatized after being involved in a fatal RTA or that it's got to be the fault of the driver (even when there isn't another vehicle involved ) as in the electric scooter fatality recently in Meath.


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    #142
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,350 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    doublejobbing 2 wrote: »
    The thankfully stymied attempt to bring in 50kph limits to main roads in Dublin is staggering.

    It is impossible, simply impossible, for a pedestrian who is behaving responsibly to be hit by a car travelling at 50 on a Dublin main road.

    And for whaever reason pedestrians/ cyclists of West European appearance (French, German, Spanish- can usually be distinguished by their cheap clothes) are by far the worst offenders.

    What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?


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    #143
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,739 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    the amount of bile that a simple comment such as "Thinking of both the cyclists family and the car driver tough on both families" attracts is beyond belief.

    Because the person is posting that to try and lay the blame on the cyclist, simple as that. They're trying to say "I hope the driver doesn't feel bad because it was obviously the cyclist fault, I saw one break red lights the other day".
    It's just disgusting carry on.
    What kind of a sap are you with that signature on your posts too? Ffs, get a life.


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    #144
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?

    Cheaper than Penneys? Does not compute...


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    #145
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,350 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    strandroad wrote: »
    Cheaper than Penneys? Does not compute...

    Maybe they all went to the Primark in Malaga


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    #146
    doublejobbing 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?

    You obviously never met many. Most of them are tighter than a nun. Wardrobe worth a tenner, drink two pints on a night out. Hence why they cycle everywhere, too tight to get a bus never mind run a car.


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    #147
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Because the person is posting that to try and lay the blame on the cyclist, simple as that. They're trying to say "I hope the driver doesn't feel bad because it was obviously the cyclist fault, I saw one break red lights the other day".
    It's just disgusting carry on.
    What kind of a sap are you with that signature on your posts too? Ffs, get a life.

    You one of those trolls?


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    #148
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?
    i wouldn't pay much heed, their grasp of detail is poor if they think the move to bring 50km/h limits in on the roads in dublin has been 'stymied'. there are only about 15km of roads in the entire DCC area which have a speed limit higher than 50km/h. the *vast* majority are 50km/h or lower.


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    #149
    doublejobbing 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i wouldn't pay much heed, their grasp of detail is poor if they think the move to bring 50km/h limits in on the roads in dublin has been 'stymied'. there are only about 15km of roads in the entire DCC area which have a speed limit higher than 50km/h. the *vast* majority are 50km/h or lower.

    Sorry, I meant 30km limits. Looks like the worst we will get is 40km. Bad but could have been worse.

    These Green party scum want putting on trial.


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    #150
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,841 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    doublejobbing 2 wrote: »
    These Green party scum want putting on trial.
    For what? :confused:


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    #151
    doublejobbing 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    For what? :confused:

    Theft of our personal time.

    Hazel Chu is a particularly odious character. The way she is given sometimes twice weekly interviews and opinion pieces in the national newspapers is despicable- she's a local councillor in an honorary role as mayor yet is being groomed for election as a TD.

    I'm from Dublin and can barely remember who the last five mayors were yet this wan has a higher national profile than Rudy Giulani did.


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