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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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    #1382
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    hurleronditch wrote: »
    It’s such an irrelevant conversation


    No it is not.

    hurleronditch wrote: »
    We are a clearly neutral country, and the Russians will never ever attack us. Given our close relationship with the US, if they ever did attack us (as stupid as that sentence sounds) it would basically spark world war 3 so it will never ever ever happen.


    We are not Neutral, we never have been, we maintain a policy of non alignment but aligned to the west, Russia easily views Ireland as a stepping stone into the UK & a weak link in European air defence & any other kind of defence for that matter.




    hurleronditch wrote: »
    The Russian bombers running down the Scottish and Irish west coast are merely trying to annoy NATO, and testing the response times of the jets in Scotland and Wales, if I’m right once they get down alongside Donegal they always turn back, as once they have gotten as close to the Derry coast as they can to test quick response lads Coming from mainland UK there is no more purpose to their mission.


    Your wrong, yes the are testing RAF/NATO QRA response, but when they are off the coast of Donegal they actually continue south down the Irish West Coast & are then intercepted by the French. Last time they did just that & the French were very close to Cork.


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    #1383
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Assuming we use an Allied Nation for the training, 5-10 years realistically.

    Training on the Gripen is provided by Swedish airforce representatives and Saab themselves.


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    #1384
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    ljy9fn7qwhgasx wrote: »
    Kinda holed your own canoe with that one.

    Even so, in a country with over 3,000 homeless children one will have a difficult time persuading people to spend tens or hundreds of millions on jets to "defend our own airpsace" against something.

    Well if something does come and bomb it will mske much more homeless people That the government will have to pay for anyway.


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    #1385
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    Training on the Gripen is provided by Swedish airforce representatives and Saab themselves.


    That's for the Gripen's, I'm talking about building up the personnel for all the other components that would be needed, for the Radar stations that would be needed, all the ground staff personnel to support any fighters...


    Hell given that we're likely talking about doubling the AC's standing numbers it's going to take time.


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    #1386
    TheW1zard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    This is not a troll post. We dont need fighters.
    The air core provide emergency flights for sick people, and flying some vips around.
    Bar airshows, the pc9s are useless.
    I do enjoy them going over and was out on a boat one day when one went right over head very low!
    But f16s, eurofighters etc would be such an amazing waste of money and will never happen.


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    #1387
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,796 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    If you mean in terms of pilots going from one aircraft to another then no, the transition is easier going from the PC-9 to an F-16 or FA/18 block II as the only similarity between all three aircraft is the HUD and panel displays.

    The LCD displays, HUD and Jammer tech in Gripen is not on any another in service aircraft other than the latest FA 18 Block III that is still in development.

    If this is not what you meant then do tell please?

    Our friend jonnybigballs was advocating the acquisition of a jet trainer, which he himself admitted was similar to the PC-9. I said there is no need, because the PC9s already have do the job adequately to provide for the step up to a fighter/interceptor as you have outlined.


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    #1388
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Our friend jonnybigballs was advocating the acquisition of a jet trainer, which he himself admitted was similar to the PC-9. I said there is no need, because the PC9s already have do the job adequately to provide for the step up to a fighter/interceptor as you have outlined.

    Is there a shiny, pointy thing, other than a six inch nail, that Jonny hasn't advocated buying at some stage or other since the birth of the Internet?


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    #1389
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    https://theaviationist.com/2020/03/13/raf-typhoons-intercept-russian-tu-160-blackjack-bomber-in-third-intercept-this-week/
    Ireland is the soft underbelly of NATO.


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    #1390
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    https://theaviationist.com/2020/03/13/raf-typhoons-intercept-russian-tu-160-blackjack-bomber-in-third-intercept-this-week/
    Ireland is the soft underbelly of NATO.

    We are not in NATO not our problem.


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    #1391
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,796 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    In my opinion, we should be in NATO, but I acknowledge theres not clear support for it so its a topic for another day, probably through the prism of the Commission on Defence when it arrives.

    Failing that, we should have the independent capacity as a sovereign but non-aligned nation to intercept these foreign military aircraft, with whom we have no cooperation, as a threat to the commercial airspace for which our Aviation Authority is responsible.

    We're not a soft underbelly for NATO, we're a soft underbelly for ourselves.


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    #1392
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    In my opinion, we should be in NATO, but I acknowledge theres not clear support for it so its a topic for another day, probably through the prism of the Commission on Defence when it arrives.

    Failing that, we should have the independent capacity as a sovereign but non-aligned nation to intercept these foreign military aircraft, with whom we have no cooperation, as a threat to the commercial airspace for which our Aviation Authority is responsible.

    We're not a soft underbelly for NATO, we're a soft underbelly for ourselves.

    Or , we only become the soft underbelly by getting into nato or getting fast jets ..
    If the Russians come down the west coast , we're not the ones they're trying to provoke ... It's the norweigans ,then the Brits ,then the French ...
    We're not a target ,because we're not a threat , or a benefit strategically to the Russians ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #1393
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,796 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Markcheese wrote: »
    We're not a target ,because we're not a threat , or a benefit strategically to the Russians ..

    Of course we are. We host billions in assets stacked against Russian interests, including banks whose job it is to keep sanctions in place, we host all the big online and data players operating with influence in the West and who can be threat against Russia or a tool for them to try to infiltrate. We are also an influential player in the new EU, and soon to be UN SC, with a record of being critical of Russia.

    Itd be pretty naive to think Russia looks at Ireland in isolation. Its true to say we are more likely to be a target for cyber attack from Russia, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be getting in the face of their long rang military aircraft when they come nosing around, all of which you can be sure are fitted out heavily for surveillance.


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    #1394
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Of course we are. We host billions in assets stacked against Russian interests, including banks whose job it is to keep sanctions in place, we host all the big online and data players operating with influence in the West and who can be threat against Russia or a tool for them to try to infiltrate. We are also an influential player in the new EU, and soon to be UN SC, with a record of being critical of Russia.

    Itd be pretty naive to think Russia looks at Ireland in isolation. Its true to say we are more likely to be a target for cyber attack from Russia, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be getting in the face of their long rang military aircraft when they come nosing around, all of which you can be sure are fitted out heavily for surveillance.


    Now now, I'm sure the Russians just like the Dublin atmosphere when they wanted to massively increase their embassy... No ulterior motive what so ever.


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    #1395
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Now now, I'm sure the Russians just like the Dublin atmosphere when they wanted to massively increase their embassy... No ulterior motive what so ever.

    They used an alternative option and they purchased another Georgian property, just not in leafy suburbia of Dublin 4. Plus we entertain the US and other nato transports in Shannon, that alone would be enough for them to keep flying up and down the coast unhindered


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    #1396
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    They used an alternative option and they purchased another Georgian property, just not in leafy suburbia of Dublin 4. Plus we entertain the US and other nato transports in Shannon, that alone would be enough for them to keep flying up and down the coast unhindered

    I thought Russian planes used shannon as well


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    #1397
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Gary kk wrote: »
    I thought Russian planes used shannon as well


    Aeroflot used to in the early 90's & previous to that.


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    #1398
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Gary kk wrote: »
    I thought Russian planes used shannon as well

    Aeroflot used it for transatlantic flights. Recently, the Russian airforce landed antonovs there due to medical aid needed in Syria and now with the pandemic. They engaged with ATC with the flight plan and less the transponders on.

    The bombers and fighters they have are not so complaint.


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    #1399
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    Aeroflot used it for transatlantic flights. Recently, the Russian airforce landed antonovs there due to medical aid needed in Syria and now with the pandemic. They engaged with ATC with the flight plan and less the transponders on.

    The bombers and fighters they have are not so complaint.

    Maybe we should offer the Russian Bombers and fighters a refuelling service like we did aeroflot it might help keep the airport open


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    #1400
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Maybe we should offer the Russian Bombers and fighters a refuelling service like we did aeroflot it might help keep the airport open

    this might just work, if we offered te Healy-Raes the contract or continuous tarmacing on runway maintenance..


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    #1401
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Maybe we should offer the Russian Bombers and fighters a refuelling service like we did aeroflot it might help keep the airport open

    It Would be a good option but I am sure you would have a few TDs on the runaway again because of there dislike for Putin.


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    #1402
    Ann22
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Ann22


    The Air Corps transport organs for transplant, an ambulance service even to the UK...a lot of sick babies with a neonatal team are transported around the country and they help with sea rescues and finding missing people. Besides that they help track wildlife. A very worthy unit.


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    #1403
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    It Would be a good option but I am sure you would have a few TDs on the runaway again because of there dislike for Putin.

    Well it wouldn't be Mick and Clare anyway, they seem pretty happy with old Pooty poots.


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    #1404
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Heraldoffreeent wrote: »
    Well it wouldn't be Mick and Clare anyway, they seem pretty happy with old Pooty poots.

    Was thinking Matty and a few Healy Raes


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    #1405
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭jd


    So..if it was decided next year that we need something similar to say 12 Saab Grippens, how many years would it take for us to get to a point where they are operating effectively?


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    #1406
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I would imagine that the AC would send pilots and technicians on secondment to a friendly nation that operates the type in order to acquire the necessary skills, so that when the planes are delivered its "all systems go" and then BANG BANG BANG! The Irish Strike Force takes to the sky!


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    #1407
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    @jd, when Hungary bought Gripens, the Chief of Staff of their air force reckoned that it would take five years to get up to speed (to get the pilots and engineers and their operating and supply system to NATO standard on type) and this from an air force that had been operating jet fighters since the 1950s and had conducted hundreds of war exercises as a member of the Warsaw Pact. Getting any new aircraft to a basic flying standard is handy enough; getting the air arm to fully embrace the aircraft in terms of operational capability, maintenance, supply chain, overhaul, tactical use, training methods and so on, takes quite a bit longer. You would need to keep the initial staff on type for at least three years until everyone is deeply familiar with the aircraft and the background to operate it.


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    #1408
    Lord Fairlord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭Lord Fairlord


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    Was thinking Matty and a few Healy Raes

    Mattie McGrath? I'm not aware of him being anti-Russian.


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    #1409
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,126 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    @jd, when Hungary bought Gripens, the Chief of Staff of their air force reckoned that it would take five years to get up to speed (to get the pilots and engineers and their operating and supply system to NATO standard on type) and this from an air force that had been operating jet fighters since the 1950s and had conducted hundreds of war exercises as a member of the Warsaw Pact. Getting any new aircraft to a basic flying standard is handy enough; getting the air arm to fully embrace the aircraft in terms of operational capability, maintenance, supply chain, overhaul, tactical use, training methods and so on, takes quite a bit longer. You would need to keep the initial staff on type for at least three years until everyone is deeply familiar with the aircraft and the background to operate it.

    the royal air force received their first F35's in 2012. they are only going operational now.


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    #1410
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Lord Fairlord wrote: »
    Mattie McGrath? I'm not aware of him being anti-Russian.

    Either have I, I can just picture him jumping the fence and making a break for it.


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    #1411
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,796 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    I would imagine that the AC would send pilots and technicians on secondment to a friendly nation that operates the type in order to acquire the necessary skills, so that when the planes are delivered its "all systems go" and then BANG BANG BANG! The Irish Strike Force takes to the sky!

    Shut up you fool.


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