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Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

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Comments

  • #182
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    If it's farmed which it probably Is, you might want to look into the damage salmon farming does to the oceans. Sorry, lol.

    And this exactly the blustering snobbery that I hate - can you not just let people enjoy their food without trying to guilt trip them.

    The salmon I eat is not farmed but caught in the wild and sustainably.


  • #183
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Uncharted wrote: »
    Your line of reasoning is not applicable because animals bred for consumption,by definition, are not in the same sphere of relevance or importance as the humans that bred them.

    They are a food stuff. A product. Nothing more.

    Humans are animals.

    You said "In my opinion,animals bred exclusively for the food industry don't have choice or free will."

    Therefore by your reasoning Humans bred exclusively for the food industry would also not have choice or free will. They would not be in "the same sphere of relevance or importance as the humans that bred them".

    I am just not able to make sense of your reasoning here. Take the Wild Pig that is sometimes hunted to eat in the wild - and sometimes bred in captivity. They are both the same species of pig - essentially the same animal. I do not see why one should have any more - or less - rights due to the circumstances of it's breeding.

    I am perfectly happy to eat both! I do not need caveats to justify either to myself. I quite enjoy wild pig to be honest. I am just trying to work out how your reasoning on the matter works and if it makes any sense to me. So far it doesn't.


  • #184
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    And this exactly the blustering snobbery that I hate - can you not just let people enjoy their food without trying to guilt trip them.

    The salmon I eat is not farmed but caught in the wild and sustainably.

    Sooner or later no, we will have to change what people eat one way or another.


  • #185
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    Might I suggest a little less time on social media, Audrey? Talk to some vegans in real life, don't mind the posts from the extremist fools that pop up on your FB feed.

    If they’re like that online why should they be any different in real life? I’ve talked to people of all extremes and it’s the fanatics that are the most visible unfortunately.


  • #186
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    If they’re like that online why should they be any different in real life? I’ve talked to people of all extremes and it’s the fanatics that are the most visible unfortunately.

    Do you think people say the same things in everyday life as they do on Boards for example? Same on FB, its full of posers and people being extreme for the sake of it.


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  • #187
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    Do you think people say the same things in everyday life as they do on Boards for example? Same on FB, its full of posers and people being extreme for the sake of it.

    As I keep saying, we're eating more meat now than ever, across the world, the industry is growing. I don't know why people feel so threatened by a few idiots on facebook. In the Tesco beside my job they sell bits of ready to eat chicken in a bag as if it's crisps. Small snacks for a euro of ham and dip, or chicken tikka and yoghurt. There's more and more meat served in different cheaper more accessible ways. Vegans aren't having much of an impact on the current trends!


  • #188
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Humans are animals.

    You said "In my opinion,animals bred exclusively for the food industry don't have choice or free will."

    Therefore by your reasoning Humans bred exclusively for the food industry would also not have choice or free will. They would not be in "the same sphere of relevance or importance as the humans that bred them".

    I am just not able to make sense of your reasoning here. Take the Wild Pig that is sometimes hunted to eat in the wild - and sometimes bred in captivity. They are both the same species of pig - essentially the same animal. I do not see why one should have any more - or less - rights due to the circumstances of it's breeding.

    I am perfectly happy to eat both! I do not need caveats to justify either to myself. I quite enjoy wild pig to be honest. I am just trying to work out how your reasoning on the matter works and if it makes any sense to me. So far it doesn't.

    You're talking about HUMANS being bred for the food industry ?? Hypothetically or whatever road you wish to travel.


    Am I right?


  • #189
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Vegans aren't having much of an impact on the current trends!

    True, T. Give it time. As you well know it has to happen sooner or later.


  • #190
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    So if we all went Vegan then surely cows , chickens and Pigs would disappear form the planet ?

    So strangely enough the fact we eat them is the only reason they are still here,

    Na vegans would keep them in sanctuaries and give them the right to vote aswell. And.soon we’ll be able to marry a chicken if we wanted to. Well vegans want to


  • #191
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    If they’re like that online why should they be any different in real life? I’ve talked to people of all extremes and it’s the fanatics that are the most visible unfortunately.

    They’re no different except they shout more


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  • #192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Uncharted wrote: »
    You're talking about HUMANS being bred for the food industry ?? Hypothetically or whatever road you wish to travel.

    Am I right?

    I am using an analogy to humans to try and understand your thinking on the matter.

    Your thinking appears to be that two otherwise identical animals have different rights - based on the circumstances and intent of their breeding.

    I can not understand that reasoning. So I am trying to. And part of trying to is to ascertain the limits of that reasoning by applying the same reasoning to other situations. Because if I can understand why you think that reasoning applies in some situations - and not others - I might better understand the reasoning.

    So if an animal - any animal - has less rights if it is specifically bred for the food industry - or any industry really - then why?? And if this is the case why does it _not_ apply to all animals including humans? Why does a human bred specifically for slavery or food not have less rights than any other human if - as you suggest - other animals would?


  • #193
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »

    So if an animal - any animal - has less rights if it is specifically bred for the food industry - or any industry really - then why?? And if this is the case why does it _not_ apply to all animals including humans? Why does a human bred specifically for slavery or food not have less rights than any other human if - as you suggest - other animals would?

    Because he believes in human rights (I hope) but not animal rights. Simple as that. People wont eat dog but will eat pig, it's normal. Some animals are more equal than others.


  • #194
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    dodderangler wrote: »
    They’re no different except they shout more

    How would you even know? The way you go on it sounds like you never met anyone outside of your local boozer.


  • #195
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Because he believes in human rights (I hope) but not animal rights. Simple as that. People wont eat dog but will eat pig, it's normal. Some animals are more equal than others.

    Plenty of people eat dog - just not common on this side of the world


  • #196
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Because he believes in human rights (I hope) but not animal rights. Simple as that. People wont eat dog but will eat pig, it's normal. Some animals are more equal than others.

    This guy gets it.


  • #197
    AustinLostin
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭AustinLostin


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Plenty of people eat dog - just not common on this side of the world

    Yeah but you can't go hunting for dog in Ireland. It's illegal. So animals aren't just here for us to eat/kill.


  • #198
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Because he believes in human rights (I hope) but not animal rights. Simple as that. People wont eat dog but will eat pig, it's normal. Some animals are more equal than others.

    Sure but his reasoning as it is worded seems to apply to otherwise identical animals _within_ a species too. That is the bit I am not getting too. And actually plenty of people do eat dog. And horse. Just depends which country you happen to be in.

    I agree though - I do not think animal rights actually exist. Animal rights are actually a subset of human rights.


  • #199
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    How would you even know? The way you go on it sounds like you never met anyone outside of your local boozer.

    Because I’m a hunter. I’ve met every dickhead vegan out there. I’ve had them shout st me etc while I’ve been out hunting and evenings shop because they spotted me as hunter. I’m satan psychopath etc. Future murderer of people etc. Shouting at me once in front of my child. So yes I have met the lot of them. Nice try though


  • #200
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Because I’m a hunter. I’ve met every dickhead vegan out there. I’ve had them shout st me etc while I’ve been out hunting and evenings shop because they spotted me as hunter. I’m satan psychopath etc. Future murderer of people etc. Shouting at me once in front of my child. So yes I have met the lot of them. Nice try though

    Personally I don't have a problem with hunting and fishing for hobbyists. I used to do a lot of fishing myself, only the last few times there was absolutely nothing out there so I haven't been in a few years.


  • #201
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    AustinLostin wrote: »
    Yeah but you can't go hunting for dog in Ireland. It's illegal. So animals aren't just here for us to eat/kill.

    Wild or feral dogs don’t enter that category. If a dog especially wild or feral is on farmland it can be shot to stop it doing damage against livestock. So yes they can be hunted and shot. It’s huge in Australia. They’re killing thousands of livestock.


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  • #202
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Because I’m a hunter. I’ve met every dickhead vegan out there. I’ve had them shout st me etc while I’ve been out hunting and evenings shop because they spotted me as hunter. I’m satan psychopath etc. Future murderer of people etc. Shouting at me once in front of my child. So yes I have met the lot of them. Nice try though

    So you've met the ones who are mental enough to shout at people in public, which you can surely see is going to be a small minority. If they weren't vegan they'd still be mental and still be shouting at someone over something like.


  • #203
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Janessa Uptight Asteroid wrote: »
    So you've met the ones who are mental enough to shout at people in public, which you can surely see is going to be a small minority. If they weren't vegan they'd still be mental and still be shouting at someone over something like.

    Show me one vegan who is not willing to kick up an argument with me because I hunt. I’ll gladly wait all day to meet one that won’t.


  • #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    AustinLostin wrote: »
    Yeah but you can't go hunting for dog in Ireland. It's illegal. So animals aren't just here for us to eat/kill.
    You can legally shoot dogs in Ireland, as a poster has already mentioned.

    You're not killing the animal to eat, but the same can be said of shooting crows/ incl magpies, which can also be pests. It's hunting by any rational definition. .


  • #205
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Show me one vegan who is not willing to kick up an argument with me because I hunt. I’ll gladly wait all day to meet one that won’t.

    0/


  • #206
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Show me one vegan who is not willing to kick up an argument with me because I hunt. I’ll gladly wait all day to meet one that won’t.

    So what is it you are hunting and eating. I might like to diversify. I focus mainly on rabbit. Usually trap them to kill later - rather than hunt to kill on the spot.

    What else in Ireland could I or should I be going for?

    Oddly though the few people who take issue with me offing bunny for food - have no issue with supermarkets selling rabbit meat. I am guessing they are using the same reasoning for this as the user on this thread is. Which is why I am so keen to push on that and see if I can understand it. I am really struggling on the rationale there.


  • #207
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    True, T. Give it time. As you well know it has to happen sooner or later.

    I'm afraid you're wrong there, D.

    Humans have escaped the effects of 'cheap' fuels like petroleum for the last 100 years and coal for another 100 years before that because of the ability of the Oceans to sequester huge quantities of Carbon to keep the atmospheric levels in balance.

    The Oceans now have reached the limits of their abilities to sequester any more Carbon so atmospheric levels of Carbon are soaring.

    There is now only one single place that can quickly absorb much of that excess Carbon and that's the worlds soils. And even then that ability is limited mainly to grassland soils because of the ability of grassland to convert that excess Carbon to Cellulose and store it first in the grass and then, through both leaf senescence and root exudates, to convert that Carbon to humus in the soils.

    Forestry has a place but it is limited by the speed to which it can convert that Carbon to timber and the Carbon it will release again when that timber is burned either as fuels or wildfires which will become more common as rainfall level in summers fall more.

    There's some very interesting research coming out this last 12 months about the abilities of grassland soils to store Carbon while vegan crop soils will emit more Carbon than it can sequester. Especially as much of the crops will grow on soils tilled numerous times each year, each time breaking up the soil structure and exposing the humus and soil biomatter to air and degradation and accelerating Carbon losses from those soils.

    There's decisions to be made and there's no guarantee that those decisions will fall in the direction you're espousing. Indeed, it would be disastrous in terms of global warming.


  • #208
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Lol, the farming mod is a climate change denier, quelle surprise


  • #209
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Lol, the farming mod is a climate change denier, quelle surprise

    Perhaps you would care to point out where in that post I denied climate change?

    Another case of seeing what you know rather than knowing what you see?


  • #210
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Lol, the farming mod is a climate change denier, quelle surprise

    Read his post you gob****e


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  • #211
    PainInTheArse
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭PainInTheArse


    Uncharted wrote: »
    That's my point.

    In my opinion,animals bred exclusively for the food industry don't have choice or free will.

    They are products. Links in a chain if you will.

    I don't consider them as wild sentient graceful animals,I consider them as food.

    Like I said, that's my opinion.

    So, you don’t acknowledge the sentience of the animals you eat but you do acknowledge the sentience of their wild counterpart. But hey, that’s your opinion dude.


    To me animals are sentient regardless of what way they were brought into this world.


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