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Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

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Comments

  • #152
    EICVD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭EICVD


    Yeah cows pigs & chickens* are, anything wild isn’t ours to eat


    (* can include bred to eat goose, duck & turkey there)


  • #153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    EICVD wrote: »
    Yeah cows pigs & chickens* are, anything wild isn’t ours to eat

    Shame for me so since I fish a lot and eat them - and I capture and keep wild rabbit before offing them and eating them.

    Some of it is probably illegal as I have never looked into licensing laws on all of it :) Sea fishing I think is fine. River fishing I am probably violating some licensing laws. Rabbit - I genuinely do not know what the deal is there.


  • #154
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Rezident wrote: »

    The seas are almost out of fish!? There are 3.5 trillion fish in the ocean. If you want to be vegan, we can't stop you self-flagelating yourself by missing out on rib-eye steak, but stop forcing this nonsense on innocent people, you are not helping your cause at all.

    Read about the Bay of Bengal and fish stocks there, or what happened to the Newfoundland cod stocks. Do people think we can just keep exhausting the oceans of fish indefinitely? You honestly think fish stocks haven't been dangerously depleted since massive trawlers and destructive methods came into commercial fishing? Or what about salmon?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/outdoorsandgarden/salmon-numbers-declining-despite-best-efforts-910010.html


    Salmon
    numbers peaked in the mid-1970s when around 1.7m returned to Ireland. Today,
    returns are estimated at 250,000 to 300,000


    But no, fish stocks are just fine

    Oh and my own experience with mackerel is that there's f*ck all of them left in the Irish sea, whereas when I was a kid you could fish out as many as you liked. I spoke to a guy at Bullock harbour who rents boats out last September and there had been less than 10 mackerel caught on his boats that season so far.

    Or here's a bunch of scientists saying seafood stocks are going to collapse but what would they know

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120920-are-we-running-out-of-fish

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533125/All-seafood-will-run-out-in-2050-say-scientists.html


  • #155
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    PainInTheArse wrote: »
    What about the choice and free will of your victim ?

    That's my point.

    In my opinion,animals bred exclusively for the food industry don't have choice or free will.

    They are products. Links in a chain if you will.

    I don't consider them as wild sentient graceful animals,I consider them as food.

    Like I said, that's my opinion.


  • #156
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭randd1


    PainInTheArse wrote: »
    What about the choice and free will of your victim ?

    You could make the same arguments about plants really, they're born, they grow, they consume, they reproduce, they exhaust. And then in the prime of their life are cut down for food.

    The only difference between meat eaters and vegans really is that with meat eaters, their living organism for choice of feeding has a chance to run away or fight back.


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  • #157
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    randd1 wrote: »
    The only difference between meat eaters and vegans really is that with meat eaters, their living organism for choice of feeding has a chance to run away or fight back.

    I would imagine they just place more value in animals than they do in plants and consider them more sentient. Like an Oran Utang experiences some manner of feelings and pain etc whereas a field of wheat doesnt. Humans need to eat something, eat plants and insects dying from sprays etc is probably the least impact we can have on the planet and animals suffering.
    People are eating more and more meat though, more than ever and it's cheap too, so what a few vegans think really shouldn't matter, it's about as irrelevant as the toilets for trans people issue, it wont affect any of us. So I really don't understand why it irks passionate meat eaters so much, you're only going to have more and more options for meat the way things are going.


  • #158
    CucaFace
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭CucaFace


    randd1 wrote: »
    You could make the same arguments about plants really, they're born, they grow, they consume, they reproduce, they exhaust. And then in the prime of their life are cut down for food.

    The only difference between meat eaters and vegans really is that with meat eaters, their living organism for choice of feeding has a chance to run away or fight back.

    They don't feel love for their offspring and they don't feel fear. Not the same at all..

    The way we treat animals on this planet is a disgrace, and this is coming from someone who eats meat.

    We do not have the right to turn another creature into a slave/commodity just for our own gain.

    In the past I can understand this was the only way to live, but now we have the ability to change this.


  • #159
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    CucaFace wrote: »
    They don't feel love for their offspring and they don't feel fear. Not the same at all..

    The way we treat animals on this planet is a disgrace, and this is coming from someone who eats meat.

    We do not have the right to turn another creature into a slave/commodity just for our own gain.

    In the past I can understand this was the only way to live, but now we have the ability to change this.

    So you eat a big fat burger and say to yourself this poor tasty delicious cow shouldn’t of died for me to enjoy it


  • #160
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    I hunt and eat what I hunt. All my meat feels is freedom before I drop it. I ha the chance to run away. But I’m just a good stalker that it never knows I’m even there.


  • #161
    seasidedub
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    Personally I love how vegans stand for humanity and the planet. Refusing to eat a local grass fed free roaming cow/sheep etc, but blissfully chowing down on a quinoa burger made with grains grown in South America and creating a massive carbon footprint as well as forcing clearances of indigenous lands and rai forest, ditto avocados, or chomping on soy based products possibly grown with Monsanto franken-seeds. And not to mention the carbon footprint of their trips to yoga places in India, Bali etc.....

    Do Lough Derg on your knees, porridge, few local rashers, bit of turnip and few spuds, pint of Guinness for the barley and they'd be better off, so would the planet


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  • #162
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    dodderangler wrote: »
    I hunt and eat what I hunt. All my meat feels is freedom before I drop it. I ha the chance to run away. But I’m just a good stalker that it never knows I’m even there.

    I know what you mean.


    There's no better feeling than a 10.99 sticker being placed on a 15 euro steak.

    Then I make my move, silently pouncing from beside the dairy aisle, that poor pre packed steak never knew what hit it.

    Get in muh belly...


  • #163
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,498 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    So if we all went Vegan then surely cows , chickens and Pigs would disappear form the planet ?

    So strangely enough the fact we eat them is the only reason they are still here,


  • #164
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I would imagine they just place more value in animals than they do in plants and consider them more sentient. Like an Oran Utang experiences some manner of feelings and pain etc whereas a field of wheat doesnt. Humans need to eat something, eat plants and insects dying from sprays etc is probably the least impact we can have on the planet and animals suffering.
    People are eating more and more meat though, more than ever and it's cheap too, so what a few vegans think really shouldn't matter, it's about as irrelevant as the toilets for trans people issue, it wont affect any of us. So I really don't understand why it irks passionate meat eaters so much, you're only going to have more and more options for meat the way things are going.

    Just two things. We generally dont eat Oran Utangs afaik ...

    And it's not just plants and insects "dying from sprays". It remains that it is estimated that some 7.3 billion land animals etc are killed each year through the processes of land cultivation and harvesting of crops and horticultural produce. 


  • #165
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Uncharted wrote: »
    In my opinion,animals bred exclusively for the food industry don't have choice or free will.

    They are products. Links in a chain if you will.

    I don't consider them as wild sentient graceful animals,I consider them as food.

    Just to probe that line of thinking for the fun of it. Could Human Slavery be justified - or at least made less unjustifiable - if the slaves in question were bred under the right conditions?

    To use your words as much as possible to word this: If they were bred entirely in captivity - exclusively for the slave industry - and as products - then by the reasoning you offer above they are products and not "wild sentient" and free. So it would be ok? Or at least not as bad? For them to be slaves.

    Not sure this line of reasoning works for me. Their level of rights and freedoms should be based on who/what they are - not their pedigree, lineage, or breeding conditions.


  • #166
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    So if we all went Vegan then surely cows , chickens and Pigs would disappear form the planet ?

    So strangely enough the fact we eat them is the only reason they are still here,

    Would you rather to never be born or born to live in a cage for a few weeks and then be destroyed?


  • #167
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    seasidedub wrote: »
    Personally I love how vegans stand for humanity and the planet. Refusing to eat a local grass fed free roaming cow/sheep etc, but blissfully chowing down on a quinoa burger made with grains grown in South America and creating a massive carbon footprint as well as forcing clearances of indigenous lands and rai forest, ditto avocados, or chomping on soy based products possibly grown with Monsanto franken-seeds. And not to mention the carbon footprint of their trips to yoga places in India, Bali etc.....

    Do Lough Derg on your knees, porridge, few local rashers, bit of turnip and few spuds, pint of Guinness for the barley and they'd be better off, so would the planet

    Im pretty sure many Irish cows are fed certain amounts of South American soy with their feed. I couldn't tell you where vegans go on holidays but meat eaters jet around the globe too and eat imported foods. Whether people fly or not, eating less meat is good for the planet.

    Link below is about importing feed for Irish animals

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiSreuRi5vjAhX6ThUIHWm9CVMQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fbreakingnews%2Ffarming%2Fwe-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html&psig=AOvVaw2hRUPjc5MTNXQP7l5vXDH4&ust=1562323614590107


  • #168
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    So if we all went Vegan then surely cows , chickens and Pigs would disappear form the planet ?

    So strangely enough the fact we eat them is the only reason they are still here,

    It's not exactly that their lives are worth living though is it.

    The only time majority of Pigs and Chickens ever get to see the Sun is the day they are taken out to be killed!.


  • #169
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,498 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Would you rather to never be born or born to live in a cage for a few weeks and then be destroyed?

    Cows don't live in a cage ,either do a lot of pig's or chickens

    We are made to eat meat ,


  • #170
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I’m an avid nature lover and passionate about conservation but I am also a meat eater and I don’t believe the two are incompatible.

    I have no problem with anyone being vegetarian or vegan but I don’t like how nowadays the vegan/vegetarian lifestyle is shoved in our faces on social media and other platforms.

    I am well aware for instance that I am eating a fish (salmon) with my lunch as a type - I don’t want or need anyone telling me this makes me cruel or heartless or makes me a monster when nothing could be further from the truth.


  • #171
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I’m an avid nature lover and passionate about conservation but I am also a meat eater and I don’t believe the two are incompatible.

    I have no problem with anyone being vegetarian or vegan but I don’t like how nowadays the vegan/vegetarian lifestyle is shoved in our faces on social media and other platforms.

    I am well aware for instance that I am eating a fish (salmon) with my lunch as a type - I don’t want or need anyone telling me this makes me cruel or heartless or makes me a monster when nothing could be further from the truth.

    If it's farmed which it probably Is, you might want to look into the damage salmon farming does to the oceans. Sorry, lol.


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  • #172
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Read about the Bay of Bengal and fish stocks there, or what happened to the Newfoundland cod stocks. Do people think we can just keep exhausting the oceans of fish indefinitely? You honestly think fish stocks haven't been dangerously depleted since massive trawlers and destructive methods came into commercial fishing? Or what about salmon?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/outdoorsandgarden/salmon-numbers-declining-despite-best-efforts-910010.html




    But no, fish stocks are just fine

    Oh and my own experience with mackerel is that there's f*ck all of them left in the Irish sea, whereas when I was a kid you could fish out as many as you liked. I spoke to a guy at Bullock harbour who rents boats out last September and there had been less than 10 mackerel caught on his boats that season so far.

    Or here's a bunch of scientists saying seafood stocks are going to collapse but what would they know

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120920-are-we-running-out-of-fish

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533125/All-seafood-will-run-out-in-2050-say-scientists.html

    What about Kale?
    Supplies are dangerously low since veganism took off over the last 5 years.

    Unless you are advocating battery kale?:eek:


  • #173
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What about Kale?
    Supplies are dangerously low since veganism took off over the last 5 years.

    Unless you are advocating battery kale?:eek:

    This is the level of argument you're up against in these discussions


  • #174
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I’m an avid nature lover and passionate about conservation but I am also a meat eater and I don’t believe the two are incompatible.

    I have no problem with anyone being vegetarian or vegan but I don’t like how nowadays the vegan/vegetarian lifestyle is shoved in our faces on social media and other platforms.

    I am well aware for instance that I am eating a fish (salmon) with my lunch as a type - I don’t want or need anyone telling me this makes me cruel or heartless or makes me a monster when nothing could be further from the truth.

    Take a look around here..every thread on the subject is started by some meat eater attacking others who don't share their views.
    I don't see it happening the other way.


  • #175
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    This is the level of argument you're up against in these discussions

    Best leave him to it and carry on with your food choices as you see fit. As we have seen in previous threads, there's just no point.


  • #176
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Just to probe that line of thinking for the fun of it. Could Human Slavery be justified - or at least made less unjustifiable - if the slaves in question were bred under the right conditions?

    To use your words as much as possible to word this: If they were bred entirely in captivity - exclusively for the slave industry - and as products - then by the reasoning you offer above they are products and not "wild sentient" and free. So it would be ok? Or at least not as bad? For them to be slaves.

    Not sure this line of reasoning works for me. Their level of rights and freedoms should be based on who/what they are - not their pedigree, lineage, or breeding conditions.

    Eh.... human slavery ??

    Whut ? Who's mentioning anything of the kind?



    Quite the leap there.


  • #177
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    Animals bred for consumption are inferior to humans.

    They are products in a food chain.


  • #178
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Uncharted wrote: »
    Eh.... human slavery ??

    Whut ? Who's mentioning anything of the kind?

    Quite the leap there.

    It is not a leap it is an analogy.

    The point being that your claim was that their having been bred in captivity - with the intention to make them a product - meant they do not have choice or free will.

    So my question is - why is that line of reasoning not equally applicable everywhere? Such as human slavery. If free will and choice is precluded by their being bred in captivity with a purpose - then what prevents the same reasoning being applied in other contexts? If being bred exclusively for an industry - your words - modifies which rights you get or do not get - why is this not equally true elsewhere? Why is that not equally a valid argument about humans - who are also animals by the way. What if I was breeding humans "exclusively for the food industry" for example?


  • #179
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It is not a leap it is an analogy.

    The point being that your claim was that their having been bred in captivity - with the intention to make them a product - meant they do not have choice or free will.

    So my question is - why is that line of reasoning not equally applicable everywhere? Such as human slavery. If free will and choice is precluded by their being bred in captivity with a purpose - then what prevents the same reasoning being applied in other contexts?

    Your line of reasoning is not applicable because animals bred for consumption,by definition, are not in the same sphere of relevance or importance as the humans that bred them.

    They are a food stuff. A product. Nothing more.


  • #180
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    archer22 wrote: »
    Take a look around here..every thread on the subject is started by some meat eater attacking others who don't share their views.
    I don't see it happening the other way.

    Then you might want to spend a little time on social media. This swings both ways whether you like it or not.


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  • #181
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Then you might want to spend a little time on social media. This swings both ways whether you like it or not.

    Might I suggest a little less time on social media, Audrey? Talk to some vegans in real life, don't mind the posts from the extremist fools that pop up on your FB feed.


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