West classified as 'region in decline' by EU

NIMAN wrote: »

The log-jam on the M50 is a good thing to have?

I've heard it all now.

Tell that to the people stuck in it.

Look - try reading classes.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How's that the explanation for late 20th century bungalow h.

Average family size in the 60's and 70's was around 5 children, while a few would emigrate the others would build on a family site carrying on the 18th century method. More houses were then built as 30 k for a site was 3 years wages for most.
Those bungalows are still a much better place to live than some sink estate in Limerick or Dublin

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

is it possible that this is a cultural / historical thing? Because it unfortunately isn't obvious to me.

Are you saying that people in Donegal effectively avoid gravitating towards Derry? Because to me, that's the nearest City/University/Hospital/Big Urban Area etc.

It is not immediately obvious to me why a Donegal person wouldn't present at a Derry Hospital, University etc. Or to the point of the thread, achieve employment with a company based in Derry. The reason I say this is because I know people who have done all of those things without issue.

I totally agree that the border is critical, but as far as I'm aware there are no checks on that border at present (and hopefully not in the future either!). Is it all that very different than (for instance) all of the economy based around Basel?

I'm reading "the nearest city is 2.5 hours away", and although that's also the case in Kerry/West Cork it's apparently different because they have built industries based on their remoteness. That doesn't have much to do with government investment though?
I'm reading "we need jobs, hospitals, education" and although these are available nearby, that they're considered inadequate because they're across the border.

I may be a complete idiot (highly likely) but if you'll humour me, I still don't fully understand.

You seem to be under the belief that Derry is some magical haven. Lets be clear, NI has the highest unemployment rate in the UK, Derry & Strabane district has the highest unemployment rate in NI, yet you seem to believe that is where the people of Donegal should look to find work. The problem is the border cut Derry off from Donegal and was then more or less ignored by the NI Unionst Government, because it was a majority Catholic city, hence the reason why the civil rights movement originated in Derry. So yes, right through the troubles, Derry was not exactly an attractive place to find work. Of course people from Donegal would look to our Government for investment rather than a foreigh goverment who were already discriminating against Derry. Problem is Derry is still a relatively poor and underinvested city with a still present religious divide.

As for the comparison with Basle, seriously?? Wages are far higher in Switzerland than neighbouring countries so of course it benefits them to cross the border, earn high wages and live cheaply in their home country. Dont have to worry about the potential backdrop of violence or shootings either. No brainer and as far removed from the Derry/Donegal situation as you can get. Plus, I can just imagine the rage of the Dub centric folk who would bristle at the idea of people paying tax in NI rather than in the Republic, but getting services from the Irish government. Already see it on here as it is.

You are right in one sense that people can use services in Derry, but not the entire County can do that. Also, for example right up until 2017, there was very limited Cancer services in Derry so again people had to travel 3 hours plus to Galway or Dublin and that is not from the remote parts, like you keep going on about Beara etc. If you were talking Dungloe/Glemcolmcile you are talking 4hrs plus. Fortunately they do have access now, but with Brexit who knows in the future and that is another problem, the uncertainty. We are relying on a foreign Government rather than our own for this type of service. Hoping it will not change in the future and somthing that people have no say in is hardly the ideal situation either.

You also to have understand the reality of the border and its impact. Why did tourism develop in the South more rapidly than up North. The proximity to the border was one factor, other reasons such as the visit of Queen Victoria in 19th century putting Kerry on the map. The proximity of Shannon and Cork airports is another factor as opposed to Dublin airport which was the closest international airport to Donegal. The upsurge in Tourism in NI since GFA has been remarkable, but still pales in comparison to the long established South Western route. Even after Donegal was voted coolest place on the planet by National Geographic, there was no huge upturn in Tourism, in fact it probably dropped a little due to Brexit.

Look your whole premise hinges around the idea people in Donegal should look more toward Britain for services, jobs etc which is more or less suggesting it should be part of Northern Ireland, and that is exactly why some people have a chip on their shoulder. Donegal is part of the Republic, but to many people it seems to be irrelevant. Hardly shocking that Donegal folk are not impressed by such attitudes.

I would love to visit Donegal as a tourist and spend my hard earned money in the pubs and restaurants there to stimulate the local economy. But where in Donegal can I possibly go without a car? Nowhere hah.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

In fairness I know plenty people who regularly go to Donegal specifically to cycle around, because it's beautiful.

I would do that but the roads here in Ireland are not safe to cycle. Even though I am Dutch (known for our cycling habits), I only really go to and from the supermarket currently or very occasionally somewhere not too far from town where the bus connection is not good (say fairview or so) and that's it.

In rural areas it's even much more dangerous than in Dublin. For example once I biked from Clongriffin to Swords (the area in between is kind of rural-ish), NEVER AGAIN. No bike path, no lights, windy road with walls/hedges on the sides, cars going very fast. On the way back I took an enormous detour via Santry as the road scared the living daylight out of me.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I appreciate your fear, but very many people do cycle on the road in Ireland and Donegal is a popular place for it. It's certainly much easier to cycle in the Netherlands because dedicated infrastructure is available, but it wasn't always thus. I personally feel much safer on the rural roads when I cycle. But we both digress here, I'm just saying there are a good holidays to be had in Donegal with or without a car.

IMO there's an opportunity to build up active sports tourism in Donegal, as Kenmare is currently doing. Accommodation, restaurants and culture (hospitality culture) would be the big requirements. Luckily those are achievable without significant central government funding.

If they would build some nice bike routes allowing us to see the nice countryside, from some towns which do have the occasional bus eireann out into the countryside. Now that would make it very attractive for people to go there (whether by car or by bus or even the flight) and then rent a bike (or take their own bike in the car with them) and then bike around.

I was over in Mayo at the weekend. Went through some horrible run down towns like Headford and Claregalway, lots of deteriorated buildings. There's just endless ribbon development out there, absolutely massive houses that look like they were designed by 1st year architecture students. I don't even know how you'd keep the bloody things clean without help. It reminded me of the intro to Dallas with all those spaced out mansions.
Going through Claregalway yesterday I didn't see one person walking or on a bike, just a traffic jam, on a Sunday afternoon!
It's so poorly designed out there I mean they only have themselves to blame in some some ways.

Balf wrote: »

I think we should even make it clear that the report isn't about Donegal, but pretty much the whole of the West.

So even if (just to move the conversation along) we agreed Donegal had some special needs, could we then reflect on how Galway shouldn't have those problems. Or Roscommon. Or Mayo. Or Longford.

Are we dissatisfied with how those areas are growing? Do we feel Roscommon lacks connectivity to Dublin? Or what?

Yep I think you raise a good point.
Not everywhere in "the west" is an extremely isolated rural area.

Fritzbox wrote: »

You can look upon the Co Donegal landscape using Google Earth and observe the spiderweb ribbon developments of one-off bungalows all over the shop. Zoom in on somewhere like Derrybeg and then roll down southwards all the way to Dungloe. Then compare with a similar rural area anywhere in Europe.

I don't get it, what has crap planning - allowing private houses to be build in "ribbon development" - got to do with the west being under developed? I'd be grateful if someone could explain that.


Example, If you draw a circle of a radius of 40 miles (1 hr drive) with Letterkenny at its centre, you'd take in most of Donegal, Derry, Tyrone & Fermanagh;, counties with a combined population of nearly 600,000, a UK university, and an Irish Institute of technology, some of the cheapest housing in the country, cheaper rents, highspeed broadband and 2 airports with daily flights to the UK (inc all 3 LDN airports) within a 2 hour drive. What do people think is putting companies off?

Firblog wrote: »

I don't get it, what has crap planning - allowing private houses to be build in "ribbon development" - got to do with the west being under developed? I'd be grateful if someone could explain that.


Example, If you draw a circle of a radius of 40 miles (1 hr drive) with Letterkenny at its centre, you'd take in most of Donegal, Derry, Tyrone & Fermanagh;, counties with a combined population of nearly 600,000, a UK university, and an Irish Institute of technology, some of the cheapest housing in the country, cheaper rents, highspeed broadband and 2 airports with daily flights to the UK (inc all 3 LDN airports) within a 2 hour drive. What do people think is putting companies off?

Because that stuff is all great if your comparison is to somewhere with none of those things, but never mind Dublin; Cork and Limerick have all those things and much more apart from cheap houses. The things you list saying they should be drawing businesses to the NE exist in better quantity and quality in other areas, so the number of companies that are left with the NE as their best option is lower.

There are more FDI Jobs outside Dublin than there are inside Dublin, however Dublin is by far the single biggest base for FDI. I think this gets lost when people are saying things like no FDI would locate outside Dubin. Here are the 2018 FDI job stats by region, not sure if 2019 ones are out yet:

Dublin 96,760 +7%
South-West 41,108 +5%
West 25,968 +8%
Mid-West 18,948 +6%
South-East 15,580 +7%
Mid-East 13,088 +7%
Border 11,885 +3%
Midlands 5,720 +14%

https://www.idaireland.com/newsroom/ida-ireland-2018-results-highest-number-ever-emp

magicbastarder wrote: »

provision of services is pricier in non-nucleated environments, broadband being an obvious example. your bang for buck in provision of those services is much less.

Companies coming in do not have to provide broadband, they purchase it from telecoms companies who are charging the same no matter what town in Ireland you live; the same goes for electricity and water supply, however the cost of other essentials - eg: office rental would be much less in smaller 'nucleated environments'