Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

stefanovich · 14-02-2021 12:01pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

First one: it's so corrupted by criminal activity and placated by welfare that it bears more resemblance to US "trailer trash" than a de facto culture. What constitutes modern traveller culture has little value imo.
.

Trailer trash is an offensive term. Poor white communities in the US have some lovely qualities.

Hamachi · 14-02-2021 12:22pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Trailer trash is an offensive term. Poor white communities in the US have some lovely qualities.

Agreed. Those terms like trailer trash, white trash, rednecks etc.. are deeply offensive to tens of millions of people.

Ironically, I sometimes see them used by the usual cohort of sanctimonious blowhards on Boards, who are continuously expressing their faux concern for minorities.

[Deleted User] · 14-02-2021 12:30pm

Hamachi wrote: »

Agreed. Those terms like trailer trash, white trash, rednecks etc.. are deeply offensive to tens of millions of people.

Ironically, I sometimes see them used by the usual cohort of sanctimonious blowhards on Boards, who are continuously expressing their faux concern for minorities.

They just hate poor people....its no crime or personal fault to be poor, (same would apply to being a minority)

stefanovich · 14-02-2021 12:31pm

Hamachi wrote: »

Agreed. Those terms like trailer trash, white trash, rednecks etc.. are deeply offensive to tens of millions of people.

Ironically, I sometimes see them used by the usual cohort of sanctimonious blowhards on Boards, who are continuously expressing their faux concern for minorities.

They like to think themselves superior and more intelligent.

With black people they are more subtle. They treat them like they are incapable and in need of coddling.

stefanovich · 14-02-2021 12:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They just hate poor people....its no crime or personal fault to be poor, (same would apply to being a minority)

Poor people are stupid because they don’t have the 4 years of brainwashing in some useless degree.

whisky_galore · 14-02-2021 1:04pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Trailer trash is an offensive term. Poor white communities in the US have some lovely qualities.

I'm so so sorry.....Fr Jack.gif

KaneToad · 14-02-2021 1:15pm

ShagNastii wrote: »

I think anti-rich/wealth movement and rhetoric towards people with success or money is driven entirely by begrudgery.

It is totally en vogue at the minute, mostly touted by salt of the earth types and millennials on Twitter that haven’t worked a day in their lives.

In many peoples minds if you make something of yourself there is no way you could have achieved it through busting your balls or constantly looking to better yourself. Everyone that has made it is because they get a leg up, exploited people or was in a “who you know not what you know” situation.

I would have a relativity privileged background in terms of finances and set up. My dad had a fantastic career. Myself and my wife would be high-earners. I’m embarrassed to say sometimes I find this fact embarrassing and would sometimes feel scoffed at.

I think you might underplay the advantages you got from your parents/upbringing.

Are all the kids that come out of Blackrock college more intelligent than those that come out of Tallaght community school?

I would contend that someone would "bust their balls" working as a cashier in a supermarket as much as someone managing portfolios on the world markets.

Most financially successful people have had a huge leg up. They don't like to admit it as it downplays their succeesses...

Donald trump
Michael o Leary
Dennis o Brien

etc
etc

Antares35 · 14-02-2021 1:32pm

KaneToad wrote: »

I think you might underplay the advantages you got from your parents/upbringing.

To a point yes, but that will only take you so far. My brother and I had the same upbringing and he was given all the same chances, yet he is a chronic under achiever and blames everyone else (as do my parents) except himself. He has no work ethic and is possibly one of the laziest people I ever met. He didn't excel in school which is fair enough as not everyone is academically inclined, but he had the option to inherit a business from my dad yet threw that up because he didn't want to get his hands "dirty" in a trade and thought it was beneath him.

He wanted the nice suit, office job etc but didn't want to actually work for anything.

I did burst my gut for most of my mid to late twenties working full time and studying at night/ weekends to get to a place where I'm happy with what I've done. Yet, he will be the first to tell people I had more opportunities than him. I didn't though, I just made better use of them.

vriesmays · 14-02-2021 1:40pm

Oymyakon wrote: »

Is that a fact or an unpopular opinion?

A lot of facts are also unpopular opinions in Ireland

ShagNastii · 14-02-2021 1:53pm

KaneToad wrote: »

I think you might underplay the advantages you got from your parents/upbringing

I conceded that fact and stated I was aware of it. The advantages aren’t necessarily all monetary. It’s a drive and expectation passed on that got my parents where they are.

You are handed a great education. But there is an ethos there beyond that. MOL didn’t turn Ryanair into one or he worlds most successful companies solely because he came from a nice area or was educated privately.

Sure, if he’d maybe come from a more deprived area or had a worse upbringing this might not have happened but I’d applause him and his parents for generating these opportunities.

doublejobbing 2 · 14-02-2021 3:51pm

KaneToad wrote: »

I think you might underplay the advantages you got from your parents/upbringing.

Are all the kids that come out of Blackrock college more intelligent than those that come out of Tallaght community school?

Some of these kids will be at an advantage over, while not Blackrock College kids, kids of a more middle class background.

Deco leaves school at 17 to do a plumbing apprenticeship.

David does a 4 year degree in business, or finance, or whatever, in DIT, and then goes off to work in an admin role in Irish Life or AIB.

I guarantee you Deco the plumber will have his own house and a whopper wage decades before David will (unless he gets a parental dig out), if he ever gets one. Most third year apprentices in their late teens are on a wage David would be lucky to see by his 30th birthday, for some bizarre reason college graduates tolerate working conditions that tradesmen would rather sit on the dole than lower themselves to. It's amazing to talk to graduates in their mid 20's who say things like "I'm on 26K, it's actually not bad for starting off". It is terrible, by any stretch (though it wouldn;t be too bad down the country given the cost of housing).

Imagine telling a spark he had to do a few months of unpaid internship to get in the door of a firm, he would literally deck you for the cheek of it.

Louis Friend · 14-02-2021 5:43pm

To be fair, a lot of the time they’re trainee professionals who get tons of ‘paid’ study leave. So when you recalculate the crap salary based on hours worked, it’s not as crap. I think I started on €20k from memory.

growleaves · 14-02-2021 6:15pm

I think people here might be underestimating how much of an advantage Blackrock College kids have.

A D4 accent opens doors. It is a signal for legal and money power. The accent comes from the way Dublin solicitors used to emphasise their speech to be heard in court.

In work contexts such people are groomed for promotions from the word go. That's been my observation anyway.

castletownman · 14-02-2021 10:14pm

There can be no such thing as gender equality so long as Valentine's Day remains a thing.

"I want to be paid the same as men, but I also want my sugar boo to shower me with chocolate and other pointless presents on a specific day of the year".

chrissb8 · 15-02-2021 2:22am

KaneToad wrote: »

I think you might underplay the advantages you got from your parents/upbringing.

Are all the kids that come out of Blackrock college more intelligent than those that come out of Tallaght community school?

I would contend that someone would "bust their balls" working as a cashier in a supermarket as much as someone managing portfolios on the world markets.

Most financially successful people have had a huge leg up. They don't like to admit it as it downplays their succeesses...

Donald trump
Michael o Leary
Dennis o Brien

etc
etc

People still have to work though. They still have to put their bum in the seat, study, break their back, study some more. Go get a job and then perform at that job and then continue doing that. In jobs that demand a lot of hours and work initially before they can settle into a moderate lifestyle.

The issue is that, people think those who had a leg up early were already primed for success. So it all came easy enough. That is just not the case.

Take my sibling for example. She went to college, did accountancy, then after that did another 3 years in order to become a fully chartered accountant. She worked fulltime and came home and studied 3-4 hours every night. Then she spent every weekend and most free days off studying, attending classes at night as well.

The point is. That she had to work extremely hard and her background, though stable and perfectly middle class, did not matter. And people would consider the position of my family as a leg up in life. Playing a big factor in her success.

It gave her a foundation, yes. But when she decided she wanted to be an accountant it was all her and her own hard work. That was the determining factor. So can you blame people who want to be acknowledged on the basis that they did that work and earned it within that sense.

Nepotism in Ireland is a different thing altogether, but being from a wealthy or relatively wealthy background is a feeble twig to bash someone with in regards to how they succeeded as the default.

[Deleted User] · 15-02-2021 2:29am

castletownman wrote: »

There can be no such thing as gender equality so long as Valentine's Day remains a thing.

"I want to be paid the same as men, but I also want my sugar boo to shower me with chocolate and other pointless presents on a specific day of the year".

March 14th balances it out.

fantaiscool · 15-02-2021 8:39am

castletownman wrote: »

There can be no such thing as gender equality so long as Valentine's Day remains a thing.

"I want to be paid the same as men, but I also want my sugar boo to shower me with chocolate and other pointless presents on a specific day of the year".

It's a double standard but an accepted one. Like the guy paying on a date.

partyguinness · 15-02-2021 11:06am

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Some of these kids will be at an advantage over, while not Blackrock College kids, kids of a more middle class background.

Deco leaves school at 17 to do a plumbing apprenticeship.

David does a 4 year degree in business, or finance, or whatever, in DIT, and then goes off to work in an admin role in Irish Life or AIB.

I guarantee you Deco the plumber will have his own house and a whopper wage decades before David will (unless he gets a parental dig out), if he ever gets one. Most third year apprentices in their late teens are on a wage David would be lucky to see by his 30th birthday, for some bizarre reason college graduates tolerate working conditions that tradesmen would rather sit on the dole than lower themselves to. It's amazing to talk to graduates in their mid 20's who say things like "I'm on 26K, it's actually not bad for starting off". It is terrible, by any stretch (though it wouldn;t be too bad down the country given the cost of housing).

Imagine telling a spark he had to do a few months of unpaid internship to get in the door of a firm, he would literally deck you for the cheek of it.

There is a lot to said for working in a nice warm office with clean eating facilities and toilets.

Would I trade that for months on end on cold wet miserable building sites all for maybe a few grand a year more? Plus the poor diet, most tradesmen I know are relatively heavy smokers and drinkers and all health & safety hazards. By the time you are 50 you have all sorts of physial aliments- bad back and knees.

No chance. Trust me I spent plenty of time on building sites in my teans and early 20s.

Andrea B. · 15-02-2021 11:56am

partyguinness wrote: »

There is a lot to said for working in a nice warm office with clean eating facilities and toilets.

Would I trade that for months on end on cold wet miserable building sites all for maybe a few grand a year more? Plus the poor diet, most tradesmen I know are relatively heavy smokers and drinkers and all health & safety hazards. By the time you are 50 you have all sorts of physial aliments- bad back and knees.

No chance. Trust me I spent plenty of time on building sites in my teans and early 20s.

Well said. Was Deco for too long. Added a degree to Deco and am now David. Money there every week. Finish at 5. Watch Deco out the window in pissing cold rain.
Deco ok if he can use his income to age 40 to build a good foundation and have a strategy to allow for the physical demands and uncertainties of the final earning furlong.

Quazzie · 15-02-2021 12:11pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Imagine telling a spark he had to do a few months of unpaid internship to get in the door of a firm, he would literally deck you for the cheek of it.

Imagine telling someone that their first rate would be €7.05/hour, which is the rate apprentices start off on.

partyguinness · 15-02-2021 12:13pm

Andrea B. wrote: »

Well said. Was Deco for too long. Added a degree to Deco and am now David. Money there every week. Finish at 5. Watch Deco out the window in pissing cold rain.
Deco ok if he can use his income to age 40 to build a good foundation and have a strategy to allow for the physical demands and uncertainties of the final earning furlong.

I have always been "David" but buddies of mine are Deco.

I was 26 before I earned first qualified salary and bought a car (degree and masters). My buddies had 7-8 years of earnings behind them, driving a car and going on holidays. I was still bumming lifts and getting the bus on €12k pa as a trainee. I never once felt jealous or would have swapped it. Maybe because I had already spent the equivalent of 2.5 years on sites so I knew what I was not missing.

I don't know what they earn now but I am 100% sure that I am now earning 2-3 times their salary.

Louis Friend · 15-02-2021 12:30pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I have always been "David" but buddies of mine are Deco.

I was 26 before I earned first qualified salary and bought a car (degree and masters). My buddies had 7-8 years of earnings behind them, driving a car and going on holidays. I was still bumming lifts and getting the bus on €12k pa as a trainee. I never once felt jealous or would have swapped it. Maybe because I had already spent the equivalent of 2.5 years on sites so I knew what I was not missing.

I don't know what they earn now but I am 100% sure that I am now earning 2-3 times their salary.

I remember one eejit I know bragging about earning twice as much as me when I started working. I bumped into him recently and I was tempted to highlight the revised position to him, but I didn’t because it would be crass.

doublejobbing 2 · 15-02-2021 2:50pm

partyguinness wrote: »

There is a lot to said for working in a nice warm office with clean eating facilities and toilets.

Would I trade that for months on end on cold wet miserable building sites all for maybe a few grand a year more? Plus the poor diet, most tradesmen I know are relatively heavy smokers and drinkers and all health & safety hazards. By the time you are 50 you have all sorts of physial aliments- bad back and knees.

No chance. Trust me I spent plenty of time on building sites in my teans and early 20s.

I worked in an office for a year. Frankly I'd commit suicide if I had to do it again and that is no lie. Demeaning, degrading, bribed for sh1t conditions with gimmicks like free pizza every 4th Friday and a free beer on an office night out every 6 months.

That was bad enough, I can't fathom how bad it would be to now have to do the work from my bedroom.

re health, about a year ago I was on a site around Cherrywood and called in to the Subway at the business park. The office men getting their lunch there looked like death. Underweight, overweight, just the grey sunken look of depression and ill health a poor wage and working in a sedentary environment of re circulated air give off. I really felt for them as I once was them.

Quazzie wrote: »

Imagine telling someone that their first rate would be €7.05/hour, which is the rate apprentices start off on.

Decent money for a teenager.

A 19 year old plumbing apprentice would be on about 16 or 17 per hour by 3rd year off the top of my head. A lot of 30 year old graduates would bite your hand off for that money.

Whenever the IT or the Indo publishes an interview with a young couple about unaffordable housing, they are always, always graduates. You won't get an interview with a 28 year old electrician and his hairdresser girlfriend, because they are minted and can afford a house, unlike the couple who invested their youth in a waste of time degree.

jojofizzio · 15-02-2021 3:56pm

Ads by Google wrote: »

March 14th balances it out.

:eek::eek::eek::D:D:D

partyguinness · 15-02-2021 5:55pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I worked in an office for a year. Frankly I'd commit suicide if I had to do it again and that is no lie. Demeaning, degrading, bribed for sh1t conditions with gimmicks like free pizza every 4th Friday and a free beer on an office night out every 6 months.

That was bad enough, I can't fathom how bad it would be to now have to do the work from my bedroom.

re health, about a year ago I was on a site around Cherrywood and called in to the Subway at the business park. The office men getting their lunch there looked like death. Underweight, overweight, just the grey sunken look of depression and ill health a poor wage and working in a sedentary environment of re circulated air give off. I really felt for them as I once was them.

Sounds like you had a fairly **** experience. Thankfully no gimmicks here I guess it helps when I am the boss. It's funny when I have tradesmen in here saying that they would love to be sititng in a nice office and then sometimes I am wishing I was outside not having to deal with BS emails and telephone calls. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

partyguinness · 15-02-2021 5:57pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Whenever the IT or the Indo publishes an interview with a young couple about unaffordable housing, they are always, always graduates. You won't get an interview with a 28 year old electrician and his hairdresser girlfriend, because they are minted and can afford a house, unlike the couple who invested their youth in a waste of time degree.

Plumbers and electricians are not the target market for the IT and Indo that's why..;)

Good luck finding the IT strewn around a building site canteen.

Nokia6230i · 15-02-2021 9:35pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Plumbers and electricians are not the target market for the IT and Indo that's why..;)

Good luck finding the IT strewn around a building site canteen.

Blue Collar, Working Class here; worked in a factory (admittedly it's not a building site) all during 00s; the Irish Times was my order from local shop which delivered factorys newsppaers (also Irish Times & Indo; 2 Receptions for trade & wholesale/customers; can't recall if they ordred 2 of each as a result) & milk.

Anyone who wanted borrow mine was welcome to it; never went missing and the crossword, both Simplex & Crossaire, which I'd zero interest in (way too taxing for my brains pay grade) was completed regularly.

Not a fan of stereotypes!!

Antares35 · 16-02-2021 12:38am

partyguinness wrote: »

I have always been "David" but buddies of mine are Deco.

I was 26 before I earned first qualified salary and bought a car (degree and masters). My buddies had 7-8 years of earnings behind them, driving a car and going on holidays. I was still bumming lifts and getting the bus on €12k pa as a trainee. I never once felt jealous or would have swapped it. Maybe because I had already spent the equivalent of 2.5 years on sites so I knew what I was not missing.

I don't know what they earn now but I am 100% sure that I am now earning 2-3 times their salary.

How can you be 100 percent sure you're earning 2-3 times their salary if you don't know what they earn now?

Paul_Mc1988 · 16-02-2021 1:42am

Flat rate for sparks and plumbers now is about €24.50 an hour. That's 49.7k a year flat rate. The guys out in intel are getting country money €50 per day and are doing a small bit off OT ( just Saturday)and are clearing about 80.5k.

I got out out of the trade 9 years ago and was qualified at 22. For a 22 year old thats savage money.

Thelonious Monk · 16-02-2021 11:17am

James McClean is an insufferable gobsh*te and brings it all on himself

Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

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