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04-07-2019, 13:36   #211
PainInTheArse
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Originally Posted by Uncharted View Post
That's my point.

In my opinion,animals bred exclusively for the food industry don't have choice or free will.

They are products. Links in a chain if you will.

I don't consider them as wild sentient graceful animals,I consider them as food.

Like I said, that's my opinion.
So, you don’t acknowledge the sentience of the animals you eat but you do acknowledge the sentience of their wild counterpart. But hey, that’s your opinion dude.


To me animals are sentient regardless of what way they were brought into this world.
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04-07-2019, 13:37   #212
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Show me one vegan who is not willing to kick up an argument with me because I hunt. I’ll gladly wait all day to meet one that won’t.
Most meat eaters also don't agree with hunting.
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04-07-2019, 13:39   #213
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Originally Posted by taxAHcruel View Post
Shame for me so since I fish a lot and eat them - and I capture and keep wild rabbit before offing them and eating them.

Some of it is probably illegal as I have never looked into licensing laws on all of it Sea fishing I think is fine. River fishing I am probably violating some licensing laws. Rabbit - I genuinely do not know what the deal is there.
I’m not gonna call you scum of the earth or anything for hunting your own food (them vegans & vegetarians probably would). You have your reasons & that’s fair, just I personally don’t agree with hunting of any sort in this day age.
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04-07-2019, 13:41   #214
 
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Most meat eaters also don't agree with hunting.
For sport probably but presumably not for food?
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04-07-2019, 13:44   #215
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Originally Posted by Buford T. Justice VI View Post
Perhaps you would care to point out where in that post I denied climate change?

Another case of seeing what you know rather than knowing what you see?
Nope, skimmed over your post, sorry
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04-07-2019, 13:45   #216
taxAHcruel
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Originally Posted by EICVD View Post
I’m not gonna call you scum of the earth or anything for hunting your own food (them vegans & vegetarians probably would). You have your reasons & that’s fair, just I personally don’t agree with hunting of any sort in this day age.
Suppose it depends on what moral arguments one selects. For example the most arguments I hear against eating meat are actually arguments against how we treat the animals while producing meat. It seems there are little or no arguments against meat eating itself - but many arguments against how we treat animals while we farm it.

Hunting your own meat where possible by passes many of those arguments. Animals who have lived a life in the wild do not qualify for the concerns over farming and captivity.

Many people against hunting also seem to be fine with fishing - which has always been curious to me. Fishing _is_ a form of hunting. For some reason - I guess something to do with the fish not being visible while you hunt it maybe - or perhaps just because the word "fishing" exists - people see it as separate and something else.
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04-07-2019, 14:03   #217
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Originally Posted by igCorcaigh View Post
Our modern industrial ways of consuming animals producing food has, for some, become completely devoid of compassion and separated from our natural origins.

Some people, for ethical and completely understandable reasons make a decision not to support these industries.

Other people make choices along the same lines, but choose to source their animal products along more ethical lines, or just less of them.

Others continue as they are.

All valid, all debatable. But completely understandable, surely.

I think the heart of the issue is the increasing industrialisation of not just animal production, but of how we produce food generally. This has been going on since the 1940's, and people are more and more disconnected from where their food comes from.

Where possible such practices should be replaced with Regenerative Agriculture - practices that heal the environment instead of harming it.
Plants can be grown regeneratively, in a way that
  • increases biodiversity
  • improves soil health
  • improves water quality
  • increases soil carbon storage
  • and generally heals the environment
The point some people in this debate miss is the fact that can animals can be farmed regeneratively too, and can have as much of a positive an impact on the environment as plants, with even greater synergies when the two are combined.

The regenerative food movement is starting to gather momentum, and it has the potential to greatly improve people's health and the health of the planet.

If all agriculture was regenerative we would have the potential to sequester all the CO2 emitted since the start of the industrial revolution, back into the soils in about 10 years, so it's where we should be focusing our energies on.

Last edited by Upstream; 04-07-2019 at 14:09.
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04-07-2019, 14:05   #218
PainInTheArse
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You could make the same arguments about plants really, they're born, they grow, they consume, they reproduce, they exhaust. And then in the prime of their life are cut down for food.

The only difference between meat eaters and vegans really is that with meat eaters, their living organism for choice of feeding has a chance to run away or fight back.


There is no comparison to the life of an animal and the life of a plant. If you think chopping a carrot in half is the same as slicing the throat of an animal, you would really what to check your moral’s there bud.
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04-07-2019, 14:07   #219
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Originally Posted by Janessa Uptight Asteroid View Post
For sport probably but presumably not for food?
Yeah hunting legally for food is fine
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04-07-2019, 14:29   #220
Uncharted
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Originally Posted by PainInTheArse View Post
So, you don’t acknowledge the sentience of the animals you eat but you do acknowledge the sentience of their wild counterpart. But hey, that’s your opinion dude.


To me animals are sentient regardless of what way they were brought into this world.
Incorrect,you're choosing to see as you want to see.


I'm staying that the food (meat) I eat is simply that..... food.

Nothing more,nothing less.

I don't consider the pigs,sheep,cows etc emotions or feelings. Never have,never will.


They are food. Not humans ,not equals,not pets.
They are products.

They are food.
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04-07-2019, 14:31   #221
dodderangler
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Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
Most meat eaters also don't agree with hunting.
That almost makes them the biggest hypocrites aswell.
I had a lad here in work today saying it’s cruel that I was out hunting yesterday. Says it’s psychotic thing to do. At lunch time he had. Hot chicken sandwich. I just laughed.
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04-07-2019, 14:34   #222
dodderangler
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Originally Posted by Janessa Uptight Asteroid View Post
For sport probably but presumably not for food?
What classes it as sport though. I hunt animals that I don’t eat. Foxes and crows etc are a menace. They need to be culled. The more we move into their lands the more they produce in smaller areas causing more damage to local wildlife. Some people say they were never as much of a menace before but yes that was when there wasn’t as much people either. I hunt land now that is shrinking all the time because of houses being built more and more. I could’ve shot four foxes last
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04-07-2019, 14:42   #223
Greyfox
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Originally Posted by taxAHcruel View Post
For example the most arguments I hear against eating meat are actually arguments against how we treat the animals while producing meat. It seems there are little or no arguments against meat eating itself - but many arguments against how we treat animals while we farm it.
As a meat eater I think a lot of what Vegans/Vegitarians say is fair. Most meat eaters don't care enough about where there meat comes from and ignore realities like how most chickens live and that meat is too cheap and too much of it is produced. We hope there's no suffering for the animals besides the seconds required for the killing but we would rather not think about the subject rather then caring about wheter or not guidelines are been followed. It's easy to assume there's laws in place so there's no animal cruelty but there is also human error that can happen and if it happens in a abbotoir it will cause suffering. I've considered giving up meat or cutting down dramatically but to be honest giving up meat would be as difficult as giving up alcohol so its not going to happen with me
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04-07-2019, 14:43   #224
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The defence of eating meat due to it being natural is fine. It falls apart though when the meat you're getting is from industrial and unsustainable methods that sacrifice animal welfare for profits which is unnatural in itself.

I've absolutely no issue with anyone eating meat that they have hunted or sourced locally. Don't get the hate towards veganism, vegans can be annoying, but the practice is welcome.

I also wonder how many people would have the stomach to kill an animal and gut it and prepare it for their dinner? Part of the success of industrial meat production is hiding the reality from the consumer.
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04-07-2019, 14:45   #225
gozunda
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Originally Posted by dodderangler View Post
What classes it as sport though. I hunt animals that I don’t eat. Foxes and crows etc are a menace. They need to be culled. The more we move into their lands the more they produce in smaller areas causing more damage to local wildlife. Some people say they were never as much of a menace before but yes that was when there wasn’t as much people either. I hunt land now that is shrinking all the time because of houses being built more and more. I could’ve shot four foxes last

Bizarrely there is a faction who read the word 'sport' as 'fun' - as in rolling around the place in fits pissing yourself laughing or whatever

Trying to point that sport also has the meaning of a physical activity participated by individuals outdoors is probably pointless and you may as well be banging your head off a brick wall as attempting to get some to understand that tbh

The same eejits who claim keeping animals is 'slavery', that meat is 'murder' and eating it is akin to nuclear waste. Plenty of examples of all this ****e in this thread already tbh.

I'm away to prosecute the local fox for eating murdering some rabbits here abouts. 10-15 years incarceration should do it I think.

Serve the cruel feker rightly...
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