Civil Defence might lose licence to provide first aid

stoneill · 09-05-2019 7:58am #1

Hidden in an article about insurance is a piece about the Civil Defence may lose it's licence to provide first aid cover at events:

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/leo-needs-to-sort-this-family-park-closing-over-40000-insurance-cover-38094329.html

Meanwhile, the regulator of Civil Defence is hopeful that a resolution can be found to an issue that is threatening the viability of 200 festivals around the country.

First-aiders like Civil Defence are regulated by the statutory agency. There are fears Civil Defence may not have a new licence for carrying out emergency procedures in place from the independent statutory agency.

I'm not a member of Civil Defence (was years ago, so have a little bit of passing interest)

Does anyone have more info what this is about?

RadioRetro · 09-05-2019 2:53pm

Bit more info here; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/vital-civil-defence-medical-support-for-local-festivals-at-risk-1.3885393

From what I've been told it seems to be a reigning in of what the CD can do to save money. Some civil servants and ministers say the CD was originally formed to help the civil powers in times of emergency by doing searches, lugging sandbags etc., not providing first aid coverto private events or such. So let's not train them in first aid and save a packet.

My sources may be wrong but it seems to be the general feeling.

The Real B-man · 09-05-2019 3:13pm

Not a member of CD

Do CD charge if deployed to these festivals?
Plenty of the Vols + Privates cover these festivals and are paid/donations made respectively are festivals relying on getting cover for free from CD?

On the PHECC accreditation can see this only makes sense if they are stepping away from the casualty service and practitioners/vehicles etc and just focusing on providing first aid to the public when deployed in there duties rescue etc, although they still would have to be certified to do so by some CPG provider.

limericklad87 · 09-05-2019 4:30pm

stepping away from the casualty service and practitioners/vehicles etc and just focusing on providing first aid to the public when deployed in there duties rescue etc

Cant have it both ways unless in the course of their duties they provide FAR only etc.

Might be a few practitioners to be snapped up by other vols in a few months

limericklad87 · 11-05-2019 5:40pm

Yesterday's CD statement

https://www.civildefence.ie/explanation-of-current-civil-defence-and-phecc-issue/

Explanation of Current Civil Defence and PHECC Issue
May 10, 2019

Civil Defence is a volunteer based organisation of approximately 3,500 volunteers who give generously of their time and expertise for their community and in support of the Principal Response Agencies. They are managed within each Local Authority by a Civil Defence Officer (CDO) and/or an Assistant Civil Defence Officer (ACDO).

Civil Defence is multi skilled organisation with the provision of first aid cover to sporting events and community activities constituting a large part of the operations of the organisation. In 2018, Civil Defence undertook a total of 2,795 operations. In terms of first aid, currently Civil Defence have approximately 2,000 Cardiac First Responders (CFR), 1,000 First Aid Responders (FAR), 500 Emergency First Responders (EFR), 280 Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT), 52 Paramedics (P) and 24 Advanced Paramedics (AP) volunteering for Civil Defence.

The 2015 Government White Paper on Defence https://www.civildefence.ie/department-of-defence-white-paper-chapter-9-civil-defence/ outlines that the Civil Defence Branch of the Department of Defence is responsible for the strategic management and development of Civil Defence at a national level. It provides grant aid, policy advice and training to support local Civil Defence units.

The White Paper recognises the important role of Local Government in the management of Civil Defence. The CDO and/or ACDO, who is an employee of the Local Authority, is responsible for the day-to-day management of Civil Defence in their Local Authority area.

In terms of the Pre Hospital Emergency Care Council (PHECC), they are the regulator for emergency medical services (EMS) in Ireland and their role is to protect the public. PHECC require organisations who wish to be operational, to apply to PHECC for an annual licence to operate. As part of the application process for Civil Defence to have a “licence to operate” and thus provide a first aid service up to Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) level, the Department of Defence previously signed the statutory declaration required by PHECC.

Civil Defence’s current licence was due to expire at the end of November 2018. In advance of the renewal process, the Department of Defence reviewed the statutory declaration. That review identified that some assurances and details required as part of the licensing process are not within the control or remit of the Department of Defence as responsibility for operations rests with local authorities as set out in the 2015 Government White Paper on Defence.

An example of one of the assurance (section M) required as part of the declaration is

“The applicant has medications and equipment for the administration of pre-hospital emergency care available, when providing a pre hospital emergency care service in a vehicle, an aircraft, maritime craft or a first aid/medical post which are appropriate to the clinical levels as outlined in the current PHECC medications and skills matrix”

The Department of Defence is currently working with all relevant parties to ensure it can reach a position, whereby it can provide the assurances required as part of the licensing process.

PHECC agreed to extend Civil Defence’s current licence up to the 30 July 2019. This was to allow relevant parties to engage to try resolve the issue. Engagement has been ongoing with PHECC and with representatives of the Local Authorities through the City and County Managers Association since earlier this year.

Everyone wants to see a satisfactory resolution to this matter to ensure there is no diminution of the service provided by Civil Defence.

Further engagement will take place next week with all relevant parties.

sgthighway · 12-05-2019 10:09am

This is great news. Ideally the extension should have gone on until September so that most summer events have cover. If CD stop providing First Aid the voluntary groups like Red Cross, Order of Malta and St. Johns need to come up with a strategy to potentially take on more members or setup sub units in areas that CD were strong in providing First Aid cover.

limericklad87 · 12-05-2019 2:53pm

Easier said than done.

I never saw CD out fundraising let's just put it that way.

I'm sure other Vols will gladly take additional members where they are interested be them potentially Ex CD or not but they are on a stricter budget than a local authority funded voluntary EMS.

sgthighway · 04-06-2019 7:29am

I was under the impression everything was okay here but have a lot of CD Units let their EMTs lapse on their registration? I now know two CD units who have scaled back on duties. I checked a few people I know and they are re-registered.

limericklad87 · 04-06-2019 9:12pm

But CD have nothing to do with their EMTS registration.

They could maintain registration f
so as to jump ship etc

limericklad87 · 09-06-2019 11:34pm

I can confirm that the Civil Defence wrote and requested an extension to their current recognition as a PHECC licensed CPG Provider, which was granted by Council. That extension expires at the end of July 2019.

I can also confirm that the Civil Defence have written again to outline new processes they are putting in place to validate their governance systems and have requested a further extension to allow time to stress test and roll out these processes.
This application will be considered by Council when it next meets on 20th June 2019.

To date PHECC has not yet received a completed renewal application from the Civil Defence, but this is something we would encourage and look forward to receiving, however, this is a matter for the Civil Defence.

PHECC is working with the Civil Defence and will continue to work closely with them to support them in their preparation of an application, and to help them resolve any issues they may encounter with such an application

searescue · 19-06-2019 4:00am

A further extension has been given until November. Civil Defence is state funded but does charge for ambulance cover, in many cases less than OMAC, IRC & SJAI.

limericklad87 · 19-06-2019 9:13pm

Is that agreed by phecc

19hz · 03-09-2019 12:19am

searescue wrote: »

A further extension has been given until November. Civil Defence is state funded but does charge for ambulance cover, in many cases less than OMAC, IRC & SJAI.

I don't know about elsewhere nationally but in the region I'm familiar with CD and the voluntaries all charge the same price for ambulance cover.

limericklad87 · 06-09-2019 11:18pm

Of course they can charge less........

They have a guaranteed income

limericklad87 · 07-09-2019 12:03am

Of course they can charge less........

They have a guaranteed income

Civil Defence might lose licence to provide first aid

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