Foreign hosting company threatening behaviour

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 2:33am #1

Long story short, in March I paid 9 euro for a vps ( virtual private server ) to run a old game server and forgot about it a week later and didn't use it again.

Checked emails today and they're looking for 90 euro with a 65euro cancellation fee. I assumed since I paid for a month it would just cancel and I could forget about it.

Obv I'm semi to blame here because I didn't read any emails from them because past experience I've had over 20 yrs they would just cancel the service once I don't renew and that would be that.

The email they sent said I have 7 days to make the payment or they may turn it over to debt collectors and I'll incur further costs. The company is based in the Netherlands.

Any advice? People I've spoke to have told me they can't do anything - it was never my intention to deceive anyone.

endacl · 12-05-2021 2:45am

What did the terms and conditions of the contract you entered into state?

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 2:52am

endacl wrote: »

What did the terms and conditions of the contract you entered into state?

I didn't pay it much attention, just tried to sign up fast. I'd imagine they have me caught.

Is it expected for a consumer or individual to be bound to such things? Perhaps it is but I had no idea. I can understand a company requiring lawyers and such to read over things.

Not saying I'm not to blame, obv I should have payed more attention. I've rented probably 100 servers and this has never happened to me.

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 3:05am

I can link it here but don't know if it's allowed to name companies. It's 12 pages of tiny print

endacl · 12-05-2021 3:13am

bewareofthedog wrote: »

I can link it here but don't know if it's allowed to name companies. It's 12 pages of tiny print

Your answer is probably somewhere in those 12 pages of tiny print.

I'm not going to read 12 pages of tiny print. You probably should (have) though...

FobleAsNuck · 12-05-2021 3:16am

Ignore, cancel your card and order a new one (e5 most likely). As for their threat? They *can* sell the debt but because of its value it's practically not enforceable. They can and will probably harass you with phonecalls but that's everything they can do without a civil court case - which is not feasible due to cost involved.

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 3:27am

endacl wrote: »

Your answer is probably somewhere in those 12 pages of tiny print.

I'm not going to read 12 pages of tiny print. You probably should (have) though...

Following suspension of the provision of the Services and/or
access to the Equipment, in accordance with this Clause 12,
companyx may claim -and Customer shall pay upon demand- a
deactivation Fee in the amount of sixty two Euros and fifty
cents (€ 62.50), in relation to the (administrative) activities
performed in order to suspend and – if applicable – to
recommence the provision of the Services and/or Customer’s
(right to) access to the Equipment.

4 If Customer does not pay an invoice within the Payment Term,
in the event that such invoice has not been disputed in
accordance with Clause 10.11, Companyx may hand it over to
an external collection agency. Any collection costs and
expenses incurred by companyx shall be borne by Customer

I was more curious about the legality of a foreign company seeking out funds from an individual using a debt collector.

Clearly I'm in the wrong but I'm not going to pay it - the server cost 9 euro, if it ran an extra month I'd owe 9 euro for that, not the 90 they're looking for, that's taking the piss. I'd understand if it was hundreds of euro a month with big hardware and it actually cost them anything.

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 3:30am

FobleAsNuck wrote: »

Ignore, cancel your card and order a new one (e5 most likely). As for their threat? They *can* sell the debt but because of its value it's practically not enforceable. They can and will probably harass you with phonecalls but that's everything they can do without a civil court case - which is not feasible due to cost involved.

Paid via paypal, I blocked them from taking money there. Thanks for the reply, I'll update if I hear anything.

FobleAsNuck · 12-05-2021 5:09am

bewareofthedog wrote: »

I was more curious about the legality of a foreign company seeking out funds from an individual using a debt collector.

Yes, after all that's why debt collection agencies exist. Instead of directly pursuing you for the debt, creditors sometimes sell the debt to a private collection agency. Such agencies are not subject to authorisation and supervision in their own right by the Central Bank. And they easily can do that due to being a member of EU.

More on the subject:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/debt_collection.html#
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/recovering-debt-elsewhere-european-union

12-05-2021 6:10am

I wouldn't pay. You could run a digitalocean droplet for a year for that cancellation fee.

rock22 · 12-05-2021 7:09am

It seems like a legitimate dept. Why would you not pay?

12-05-2021 7:11am

endacl wrote: »

Your answer is probably somewhere in those 12 pages of tiny print.

I'm not going to read 12 pages of tiny print. You probably should (have) though...

Has anyone ever? I don’t think that’s a very realistic suggestion/chastisement.

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 7:22am

rock22 wrote: »

It seems like a legitimate dept. Why would you not pay?

I would have paid if they wanted me to pay the extra month that rolled over which was 9 euro - they want me to pay almost 90 euro which is 10x the cost of the extra month, that's my issue with it, DUCY?

L1011 · 12-05-2021 8:11am

FobleAsNuck wrote: »

Ignore, cancel your card and order a new one (e5 most likely). As for their threat? They *can* sell the debt but because of its value it's practically not enforceable. They can and will probably harass you with phonecalls but that's everything they can do without a civil court case - which is not feasible due to cost involved.

Cancelling a card does not stop legitimately agreed payments - they will be rolled on to the new card.

Not relevant here as they won't have the OPs card directly anyway, as it's PayPal, but for other cases - this is a useless suggestion that just causes pointless admin hassle and doesn't get away from the payment.

12-05-2021 8:15am

rock22 wrote: »

It seems like a legitimate dept. Why would you not pay?

A 65euro cancellation fee is not legitimate. The fine print can go shred itself.

FishOnABike · 12-05-2021 9:20am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Has anyone ever? I don’t think that’s a very realistic suggestion/chastisement.

It's a contract. It's always a good idea to read a contract before entering into one.

Is the demand for €90 in total or for €90 + €65 cancellation fee?

Somewhere in the 12 pages is there any mention of a minimum length of contract or minimum notice to cancel the service?

bewareofthedog · 12-05-2021 10:48am

FishOnABike wrote: »

It's a contract. It's always a good idea to read a contract before entering into one.

Is the demand for €90 in total or for €90 + €65 cancellation fee?

Somewhere in the 12 pages is there any mention of a minimum length of contract or minimum notice to cancel the service?

It's 92 total. The extra month it ran I wasn't aware of would have cost 9 euro, it wasn't used and had no traffic.

I emailed and offered to pay them the 9 euro, failing that I'm going to ignore it, not in the habit of being scammed or being intimidated by legal threats. I'm annoyed by it now and going to forget about it, not in the mood to go rooting through their TOS looking for more legal jargon.

Thanks for all the replies I'll update if I here anything back or come to a resolution, or get a knock at the door from some fellow wearing clogs

13-05-2021 12:27am

FobleAsNuck wrote: »

Ignore, cancel your card and order a new one (e5 most likely). As for their threat? They *can* sell the debt but because of its value it's practically not enforceable. They can and will probably harass you with phonecalls but that's everything they can do without a civil court case - which is not feasible due to cost involved.

Valid charges to an old card will go to a new card unless you change issuer's as well.

bewareofthedog wrote: »

Is it expected for a consumer or individual to be bound to such things? Perhaps it is but I had no idea. I can understand a company requiring lawyers and such to read over things.

This can't be genuine. Is it expected that someone signing a contract for a service is expected to read and honour the terms of the contract?

FobleAsNuck · 13-05-2021 1:26am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Valid charges to an old card will go to a new card unless you change issuer's as well.

never experienced that

Dav010 · 13-05-2021 7:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A 65euro cancellation fee is not legitimate. The fine print can go shred itself.

Why is it not legitimate?

Surely if you tick that you agree to terms and conditions of a contract, you are bound my those t&cs, unless of course they are not legal, so I’m interested to hear why you think they aren’t.

Meeoow · 13-05-2021 8:43am

Most contracts require a month's notice. All you had to do was pay for the first month and give in your notice.

3DataModem · 13-05-2021 8:47am

I don't know the details, but in the case where a supplier has some up-front cost in providing the service, it is not unreasonable for them to have a minimum term and / or cancellation fee. Like eir/virginmedia/etc.

Does your 9-per-month contract have a minimum term to avoid this fee i.e. if you kept it 12 months is there a cancellation fee?

13-05-2021 8:52am

Dav010 wrote: »

Why is it not legitimate?

Surely if you tick that you agree to terms and conditions of a contract, you are bound my those t&cs, unless of course they are not legal, so I’m interested to hear why you think they aren’t.

I just think it's wrong, having used many hosting providers over the years and none of them having a cancellation fee along those lines. They have a legal right to pursue payment so I'd simply let them take it.

You're obviously right that if it's in there somewhere, it's technically there to be paid. But judges have ruled before that users can't be expected to read that stuff. I guess it depends on how clear it is presented. I will not debate this with someone who thinks a cancellation fee in page 47 if the terms and conditions is valid.

Peregrinus · 13-05-2021 10:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

I just think it's wrong, having used many hosting providers over the years and none of them having a cancellation fee along those lines. They have a legal right to pursue payment so I'd simply let them take it.

You're obviously right that if it's in there somewhere, it's technically there to be paid. But judges have ruled before that users can't be expected to read that stuff. I guess it depends on how clear it is presented. I will not debate this with someone who thinks a cancellation fee in page 47 if the terms and conditions is valid.

We don't know that it was buried on page 47. The OP seems to have been fairly slapdash in the formation and operation of the contract. It might have been presented in such a way that, had the OP asked himself whether he could drop the contract after a month with no penalty, he would very quickly have found that he could not.

Whether the charge is reasonable doesn't just depend on how it was presented or concealed, though. We can also ask whether it is reasonable. Others have pointed out that there is a fixed cost to setting up a service of this kind, which the provider will not recover unless he charges an upfront establishment fee, or unless the contract runs for a minimum term. I think there's a strong argument that a cancellation fee payable on very early termination is, basically, reasonable (if not concealed, of course). We don't know whether the cancellation fee in this case was as a result of early termination, or whether the contract terms provide for it to be paid regardless of how long the contract had run.

L1011 · 13-05-2021 12:27pm

FobleAsNuck wrote: »

never experienced that

It has been the case for a number of years now.

Far too many cases of people cancelling cards to try avoid paying for something they are obliged to pay for lead to this happening.

bewareofthedog · 17-05-2021 4:36pm

I emailed them offering 10e instead of the 90e they were after which is what I think was fair with wording that strongly hinted I wouldn't be paying it, anyway they emailed back today and accepted my offer.

Truth is they probably had no hope of getting the money in the first place but I've learned a decent lesson about renting servers from certain hosting companies in the future.

Seth Brundle · 17-05-2021 5:56pm

bewareofthedog wrote: »

Truth is they probably had no hope of getting the money in the first place but I've learned a decent lesson about renting servers from certain hosting companies in the future.

I'd have thought your biggest take away from all this would be to read contracts properly before agreeing to them!

17-05-2021 7:46pm

L1011 wrote: »

It has been the case for a number of years now.

Far too many cases of people cancelling cards to try avoid paying for something they are obliged to pay for lead to this happening.

How does it work when I cancel my card because I have lost it? I thought cancelling the card would stop anyone making charges on it.

Dav010 · 17-05-2021 9:38pm

Max Cool Transmitter wrote: »

How does it work when I cancel my card because I have lost it? I thought cancelling the card would stop anyone making charges on it.

Doesn’t stop authorised DD/SO orders from the account attached to the card though.

Foreign hosting company threatening behaviour

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