Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Unfortunately Irelands defence is also a real issue.
See shambolic tries conceded v France, England & even Georgia.
Not helped by picking a FB where none of his primary attributes are defence and all of his weakness are defence!

I would have hoped that this series of games would have presented clear frontrunners for key positions going forward.
I think we still have no clear candidate for hooker. Herring is imo the best of what we've seen so far. Kelleher imo has been poor and I think Heffernan is average. This is a cause for concern.
Healy is still good for 40 minutes. He clearly is not dynamic anymore and has a lot of milage. Ed Byrne is not good enough imo. I eagerly await the 6nations to see the selection here.
JGP looks decent and could feature going forward, Murray has been ok and Marmion looks to be out of favor. I expect Murray to be the starter for the 6nations with JGP as the reserve. Maybe Cooney comes back in...
Sexton is still our best 10. Burns looks better than RB and Carberry is still out. Who knows if Carberry will return and be as good as he was.
I think we still are no clearer in selections for these positions.
Hopefully Furlong gets back and returns to top form. Porter has been good and industrious but, but I think Furlong is better.
The back row seems undercooked too. I reckon VDF will come back in next week.
There's tons of questions... still.

Dubinusa wrote: »

I would have hoped that this series of games would have presented clear frontrunners for key positions going forward.
I think we still have no clear candidate for hooker. Herring is imo the best of what we've seen so far. Kelleher imo has been poor and I think Heffernan is average. This is a cause for concern.
Healy is still good for 40 minutes. He clearly is not dynamic anymore and has a lot of milage. Ed Byrne is not good enough imo. I eagerly await the 6nations to see the selection here.
JGP looks decent and could feature going forward, Murray has been ok and Marmion looks to be out of favor. I expect Murray to be the starter for the 6nations with JGP as the reserve. Maybe Cooney comes back in...
Sexton is still our best 10. Burns looks better than RB and Carberry is still out. Who knows if Carberry will return and be as good as he was.
I think we still are no clearer in selections for these positions.
Hopefully Furlong gets back and returns to top form. Porter has been good and industrious but, but I think Furlong is better.
The back row seems undercooked too. I reckon VDF will come back in next week.
There's tons of questions... still.

Bit unfair on Kelleher I think. Yes the lineout was a disaster in London and he must take his share of the blame. But we had an inexperienced caller with the added burden of captaincy. Kelleher put Billy Vunipola on his back in the first few minutes of the game. He offers a lot more around the park than Herring (Defense, ball carrying etc) and is thought by scrum experts to be a very strong in that area. Yes lineout is an issue but I wouldn't go so far as to say hes been poor.

bilston wrote: »

Healy is still pretty essential.

If he is then it’s due to failure of other players to succeed him.

He’s not the player he was a few years ago. Contribution around the park has diminished in recent games. Ed Byrne is handy around the park but I don’t think he’s a great solution at the moment. Kilcoyne’s injury is unfortunate as he should have been pushing to take that jersey.

Nothing wrong with giving the options game time. Bealam wasn’t great at the weekend but I’m fine with the experiment

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If he is then it’s due to failure of other players to succeed him.

He’s not the player he was a few years ago. Contribution around the park has diminished in recent games. Ed Byrne is handy around the park but I don’t think he’s a great solution at the moment. Kilcoyne’s injury is unfortunate as he should have been pushing to take that jersey.

Nothing wrong with giving the options game time. Bealam wasn’t great at the weekend but I’m fine with the experiment

I'd go as far to say that it was selection based on hope only. Wing & a prayer stuff.
That was the latest in a number of selections that shows Farrell shortcomings as a selector. Its the toughest part of his job.
But just very naive to think Bealham could switch back to LH after a 4 year gap. v Georgia of all teams!
Ok O’Sullivan was late into camp (also Farrell’s fault – played 72 mins v Scarlets the day after England game) but at least he can play LH.

The reliance on Healy is a result of Farrell playing him and not giving viable alternatives like O'Sullivan or even Cronin prior to the Georgia game.

Now we have Scotland before 6N opener v Wales
Is Bealham going to play again or even bench ahead of O'Sullivan? I should hope not.

How come Jack McGrath is not in the conversation?
Was he not a Lion starter 32 years ago?

redmca2 wrote: »

How come Jack McGrath is not in the conversation?
Was he not a Lion starter 32 years ago?

I didn't think there was a Lions test in 1988

I think there is something in the idea that the players just aren’t as good as the ones before them. Lots of 6or7/10 players to choose from but not many players who will challenge for Lions places.

Also, why do we think Ryan is the next captain? He shown no outward signs of being a big personality. He’s a very good player, no doubt about that, but why captain? He seems like more of an introvert who will do his job all day long, but I haven’t seen any signs that he’s suited to captaincy.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think there is something in the idea that the players just aren’t as good as the ones before them. Lots of 6or7/10 players to choose from but not many players who will challenge for Lions places.

Also, why do we think Ryan is the next captain? He shown no outward signs of being a big personality. He’s a very good player, no doubt about that, but why captain? He seems like more of an introvert who will do his job all day long, but I haven’t seen any signs that he’s suited to captaincy.

He captained probably our most successful u20 side of all time.

Bazzo wrote: »

He captained probably our most successful u20 side of all time.

Do you think he looked suited to it in the last couple of games?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think there is something in the idea that the players just aren’t as good as the ones before them. Lots of 6or7/10 players to choose from but not many players who will challenge for Lions places.

Also, why do we think Ryan is the next captain? He shown no outward signs of being a big personality. He’s a very good player, no doubt about that, but why captain? He seems like more of an introvert who will do his job all day long, but I haven’t seen any signs that he’s suited to captaincy.

The ones we have got us to number one in the world not that long ago, it’s another convenient excuse to hide over the fact that they just aren’t playing well enough, I don’t know what happened but something must have happened between the autumn international and the start of the 6N because the Irish players aggression and intensity went down the gutter in such a short space of time, the exact players who would get into a world 15 wouldn’t even get close within afew months.

He’s more of a leader in what he does than what he says, his issue I think is he is too ambitious for his own good at times, too many times when he makes the captains call he wants to go to touch with a penalty instead of taking the kick at goal, was a big turning point in the France and England match.

aloooof wrote: »

I think the same could've been said of Drico when he was first appointed captain. (Continuing the comparisons, they're the last 2 players to get capped for Ireland before getting capped for their province). Fully expect him to be the long-term captain following Sexton.

If you have your doubts, who would be prefer to see get the captaincy?

I’m not suggesting anyone. I’m questioning the assumption that he’s the “natural” next captain.

I think it shows a big problem as there are very few players who are nailed on to start. At the moment (apart from
Front rows) there is Ryan, Stander and sexton. The rest are not guaranteed to start, sexton is too old for any medium term plan and Stander is a foreigner.

Ringrose is a good choice right now but he was rightly dropped ahead of the World Cup and played his way back into great form since then. He’s be a good choice for captain right now. But we can’t have the situs with Best where the captain was playing poorly but they painted themselves into a corner by always playing him up to that point - because he’s the captain so he has to play.

I think they should have a different approach to captaincy. For example have a captaincy group and nominate a player each week to be the captain on the pitch and take the media duties. Being a good player doesn’t mean they easily handle the pressure of the media work. Under 20s captain isn’t really the same as senior international in that regard.

Watching 'Against the Head' on RTE. They're highlighting the lack of vision in the backs. The centres especially come out of it badly. Farrell and McCloskey ignored overlaps in favour of kicking in behind. Which is bad enough to begin with it, but compounded by the fact they were poorly executed kicks too.

It looks like we tried to incorporate the lessons we learned from the England game against a side that defends nothing like them. We knew we didn't kick enough a week ago so kicked too often, ignoring the better attacking opportunities our wings had.