ADVICE: How to get back into teaching for returning ex-pat teacher

Since you mention Irish, are you a primary school teacher?

There are lots of primary school teachers out there who don't have perfect or fluent Irish and I'm sure they're doing a great job. I personally know of a teaching principal who openly admits they have forgotten most of their Irish.

Unless the OP hopes to teach in a Gaelscoil, I don't think you need to be so dismissive.

In an ideal world, yes every primary teacher in the country would have native like Irish but it's not the reality and not always necessary either.





quote="RealJohn;113480316"]If you don’t speak Irish, go learn it again, properly, before you even set foot in a classroom. Your students deserve that.[/quote]

OP hasn't confirmed primary school teacher but why wait ? Get shtuck in dere lads.

williaint wrote: »

There are lots of primary school teachers out there who don't have perfect or fluent Irish and I'm sure they're doing a great job. I personally know of a teaching principal who openly admits they have forgotten most of their Irish.

Unless the OP hopes to teach in a Gaelscoil, I don't think you need to be so dismissive.

In an ideal world, yes every primary teacher in the country would have native like Irish but it's not the reality and not always necessary either.





quote="RealJohn;113480316"]If you don’t speak Irish, go learn it again, properly, before you even set foot in a classroom. Your students deserve that.

[/QUOTE]

I would still wonder at someone who is presumably Irish, has been through the education system here for 13 odd years, got at least a C in Higher Level Irish in the Leaving, did a Primary Teaching Degree and taught in Ireland, and says they have no Irish left.

It's been almost 25 years since I did my LC, and I can still speak French and German, albeit not as good as then but to have no Irish left?

Also, I have zero Irish left. I tried to take a refresher course but it was like starting a new language all over again.

Even the weakest student who hated Irish with a passion at school and never used it since the day they left is able to chuck out some stock phrases and spout bits and pieces.


Also while absolute fluency may not be necessary to teach junior infants etc, a level higher than junior infants is desirable. A teacher should understand why sentences, spelling and grammar are the way they are, so they can teach it correctly to students.

When I entered secondary school my Irish teacher who was a native speaker was able to pick out all the students that went to my school based on our grammar mistakes as we all had the same ones.

AniJ wrote: »

Hi All,

I trained and taught in Dublin for several years before immigrating. I've been gone for many years but am currently planning to move back (after COVID fecks off).

Maybe I'm too pedantic, but as well as the lack of Irish, I worry about teachers not knowing the difference between emigration and immigration.

Purefrank128 wrote: »

You are not only being pedantic, but you are being wrong. If he emigrated (from Ireland) then he most certainly did immigrate (to wherever).

Hmmm, the way it's written suggests to me a description of what happened after finishing teaching here.

When people leave Ireland, they are described as emigrating, although of course they are also immigrants to the receiving country.

Treppen wrote: »

Hint of pleonasm of your post Geuze.

Had to look pleonasm up. New word for me. You learn something new everyday ðŸ‘

williaint wrote: »

In an ideal world, yes every primary teacher in the country would have native like Irish but it's not the reality and not always necessary either.

You’re right, of course. In an ideal world, the goal of a teacher should be that their students learn, but we don’t live in that fantasy land. In the real world, teachers teach to the best of their ability, and if they’re not much good at Irish (or maths, or history, ... ), well that’s a pity but they’re not always necessary, are they?

williaint wrote: »

I still don't think you need native like Irish to be an effective teacher at primary level in an English medium school. And as others have pointed out, the OP clearly has some grounding in Irish, if they have achieved the B2 level in the past, it won't take that much to attain it again. And B2 may I add is not fluency or native like but that is the requirement for primary teachers and secondary teachers of a MFL.

Also some language teachers at second level are not perfectly fluent in the language(s) they teach. They are still amazing at their job and have excellent classroom management, delivery, etc. Fluency in the language is desirable of course but there are also other more important skills at play.

To the OP, fire out those applications and get yourself on Duolinguo! You are qualified and have plenty of international experience so you have nothing to prove!

Actually, rather than doing Duolingo, if you have a few euro to spare, get some online tutoring sessions. There are plenty of native speakers who have a qualification in Irish who are flexibility available at the moment for 1-2-1 tuition. My tutor is an SLT, a native speaker from a Gaeltacht area, has a language qualification and they're excellent - I'm far more confident with my Irish now and I hadn't used my Irish since my LC.

AniJ, PM me if you want some details about how I found them?

Have a look at this page - https://pdst.ie/teachinginireland

RealJohn wrote: »

If you don’t speak Irish, go learn it again, properly, before you even set foot in a classroom. Your students deserve that.

I hope the above statement is being made in full recognition and acceptance of the fact that Irish hasn't been taught properly in our schools for decades at primary or secondary level and our educational system is unfortunately serving to instill a deep hatred for our national tongue in a large section of the student population.

Mango Joe wrote: »

I hope the above statement is being made in full recognition and acceptance of the fact that Irish hasn't been taught properly in our schools for decades at primary or secondary level and our educational system is unfortunately serving to instill a deep hatred for our national tongue in a large section of the student population.

The first half of that is certainly true, and underlines my point. Anyone who is going to add to that should not go into primary teaching.
Lots of people hate maths too by the way, and it's been taught badly at primary for a long time, but I don't hear people defending that very often.

At the end of the day, anyone who wants to be a primary teacher in this country ought to have good Irish, English, and maths (at a minimum), or go and do something else, and frankly, the minimum standards for primary teachers in those subjects are nowhere near enough.

Mango Joe wrote: »

You can take it as a solid fact that our systems and practices of teaching Irish are not fit for purpose and instead of developing proficiency and fostering affection and appreciation for our native language instead serve as a mechanism to propagate an abiding dislike of it into the future for a very large proportion of the student population - It's a national disgrace.

To say that Teachers should be operating at a certain level in order to capably perpetuate this shambolic folly is like saying that the Titanic could have done with a lick of paint as it sank.

No, it isn’t, and that’s not even approaching an honest argument. Your argument essentially is that having competent teachers would only make a minimal difference in both students’ ability and attitude to the language. That’s utter nonsense.

Mango Joe wrote: »

No that's not what I said whatsoever, you've either a comprehension or interpretation issue afoot here.

I must ask, what are you saying exactly? Are you implying that the actual mechanics of the system are broken or are you saying that the Teachers are to blame?

I was actually favouring the argument that the employed methodology was rubbish leading to a miserable experience throughout, poor results for far too many and the poor unfortunate students (victims really) are being herded through the ordeal and coming out the other side disillusioned and full of bitter resentment.

- You seem to be implying that the utter calamity of Irish teaching in our schools is due to the Teachers being incompetent which I don't believe to be that case.

My assumption was always that it was being delivered by sincere, well-intentioned and capable professionals who haven't been given an appropriate means to get an appropriate end-result.

Regardless, if I was a Teacher who was inclined to be snooty and elitist towards other Teachers in regard to their level of Irish then I'd prefer to be standing on a far less rickety, slippery and inglorious platform.

I understood you just fine. I don’t think you understood it very well yourself though. Your suggestion that having competent teachers would make about as much difference as painting the Titanic doesn’t take much interpretation, and it illustrates quite well how little you value expertise.

At no point did I suggest that the system doesn’t need to be improved but the best system in the world is useless if those operating it aren’t competent, and that’s the current situation, regardless of the effectiveness or otherwise of the system.

In fact, I’d say that the first things that need to be fixed are the primary teacher training and the primary school system. Kids should not be leaving primary school not being able to read and write properly in Irish and English and not being able to do basic maths but it’s happening all across the country.

The fact that you think that the view that being competent to do your job (regardless of whether the system in which you’re working is fit for purpose or not) is “snooty and elitist” says it all about how you view competence.

I’ve always found that people usually start accusing people of strawman arguments when they’re wrong and no it.
Nothing you‘ve said has gone over my head. You’re just wrong and/or not focusing on the main problem. Like I said, you can have the best system in the world but if those tasked with applying it don’t have the necessary skills with which to do so, it doesn’t matter.

You have no twice suggested that without a good system, the actual ability of the teachers is irrelevant. You’ve got it backwards. Maybe the system is bad. We have no idea because whether it is or it isn’t, the teachers can’t actually teach Irish to the level they need to be in order for us to evaluate the system.

I know you’re saying teachers aren’t to blame. I never accused you of saying otherwise. The only thing you’re right about is that there is clearly a problem with a system that allows students to spend eight years learning Irish and maths and still not know their tables or be able to have a basic conversation, but if they had even one teacher who was good at teaching those things, for one year, that wouldn’t be the case. The fact that so many students reach secondary school as I described tells you how often that happens.

You can claim that you never made the points you made, but a little intellectual honesty might serve your argument better.