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How do you see the state of snooker in RoI?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    thanks joe


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Draw for German Masters qualifiers next week:

    Aaron Hill v Billy Joe Castle
    Ken Doherty v Liang Wenbo
    Fergal O'Brien v Mark Selby

    Remember Castle beating ronnie at the shoot out early this year, but it's a good draw by any stretch. Only thing, winner faces winner of Ken match next round!

    No ronnie in draw, figure he needs the break from Milton Keynes!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    A win today for Limericks Leo Fernandez in first round of German Masters. Aaron Hill up in the morning.

    Like this interview from Shaun Murphy after his routine 5-0 win. This morning he'd done an interview on the subject of how difficult it was to get maximums. Then goes out and does exactly that in the second frame of his match.

    https://twitter.com/WeAreWST/status/1326284531981312002?s=20


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭bradolf pittler


    Bad news for Irish snooker coming out of Carlow today.
    The Ivy Rooms club is closing down,The club has been holding most RIBSA'S competitions for years now and was the de facto spiritual home of Irish Snooker.
    Just another nail in the coffin for commercial clubs in the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    That is devastating news, such a fantastic club and of such vital strategic importance to irish snooker. Three closures this year due to lockdowns have obviously cut very hard, just wish there was something could be done to help there. Snooker gets so little financial help in this country, such a shame.

    In better news, a good 5-2 win for Hill over Billy Joe Castle in German Masters. The type of matches he wants to be winning. Plays winner of Ken-Liang thursday for a place in the tournament proper in new year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭bradolf pittler


    Also hearing that the new snooker council (SBI) are looking to open their own 6 to 8 table club/academy much like the ones we see opening in england.
    Not sure if it can be a sustainable business but if its non profit and funded by the sports department of the government or lotto grants then it could be a great opportunity to have a top class facility here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    All over for Ken. Had a chance there but missed a fairly simple pink with the rest. So Hill v Liang on friday it will be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭waynescales1


    Fergal dispatches Selby, 5-3. He faces Lichtenberg (who I have never heard of) for a place in the German Masters.

    Didn’t realise Fergal’s ranking had dropped to 124, that is low.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Watched Fergal absolutely blow the second frame after selby required snookers to go 0-2 and was sure that was it. Then came back to see he'd won! Very pleasant surprise!

    He's effectively on a wild card owing to the virus messing up the end of the season so his points went back to zero which is why he's so low down. Beating selby is huge if he can follow it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭FR01


    Bad news for Irish snooker coming out of Carlow today.
    The Ivy Rooms club is closing down,The club has been holding most RIBSA'S competitions for years now and was the de facto spiritual home of Irish Snooker.
    Just another nail in the coffin for commercial clubs in the country.

    That’s really sad to hear - first class facility, more a snooker academy than a club but without question one of the finest set ups in Ireland. Sad news indeed , hard to see where the new snooker council will host all their events now. Hopefully this is just a rumour and that the ivy rooms will reopen again when level 5 ends.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Afraid hill going down to first whitewash of pro career against Liang here. Safety just not good enough and errors getting punished as you'd expect against a good opponent cueing well. Just have to chalk it down to experience. Back again monday against Jackson Page in first round of Northern Ireland Open so quick chance to put tonight behind him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭bradolf pittler


    FR01 wrote: »
    That’s really sad to hear - first class facility, more a snooker academy than a club but without question one of the finest set ups in Ireland. Sad news indeed , hard to see where the new snooker council will host all their events now. Hopefully this is just a rumour and that the ivy rooms will reopen again when level 5 ends.


    No its 100% true unfortunately.
    The owner informed the SBI council this week and its widespread among the players.
    The new SBI council will really have a job on their hands to promote and grow the game with clubs closing down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Its just really tough here when you're not one of the big three sports or on the olympic roster. You're surviving on crumbs. Last i saw cue sports were getting around 60k annually from the government which puts it on a par with the likes of surfing and table tennis. And in the latest round of covid emergency sports grants, i saw nothing listed for snooker. Unless hearn can work some miracle with the crowd in switzerland, it's hard to see that changing anytime soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭FR01


    No its 100% true unfortunately.
    The owner informed the SBI council this week and its widespread among the players.
    The new SBI council will really have a job on their hands to promote and grow the game with clubs closing down.

    Yep I just heard from someone reliable that the owner of the ivys is selling the unit to a furniture company, the owner is involved at a high level with the Irish governing body formally know as RIBSA but now SBI so I’m sure they’ve known for a while.

    Can’t see many clubs giving up their premises to SBI for weekends at a time solely for running events ? I always felt running everything at the IVYS was going to come back and haunt RIBSA some time, the grassroots of the game ie the normal snooker clubs were left behind and ignored for too long.

    However as you mentioned the SBI will have a huge job now and trying to convince clubs to host tournaments will prove difficult. Will more than likely see the majority of the tournaments held in Celbridge and Darcys now.

    The players will have to get used to playing in club conditions again now that the high standards at the Ivys will not be available any more.

    Interesting times ahead


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Nice piece with Patsy Fagan here. Good to hear he's back playing and agree with him about the seniors, 40 is way too young for a cut off point. Should be 45 at a bare minimum as it used to be..

    He talks about being excluded from the pro ranks by the senior players at the time, but doesn't mention that after he won the uk title in 1977, Joe Davis gave a speech during the prize giving ceremony that was conspicuous by neglecting to mention the new champion entirely.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/23/patsy-fagan-talks-uk-championship-glory-car-crash-yips-the-rocket-and-lost-trophies-13637003/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭waynescales1


    Nice piece with Patsy Fagan here. Good to hear he's back playing and agree with him about the seniors, 40 is way too young for a cut off point. Should be 45 at a bare minimum as it used to be..

    He talks about being excluded from the pro ranks by the senior players at the time, but doesn't mention that after he won the uk title in 1977, Joe Davis gave a speech during the prize giving ceremony that was conspicuous by neglecting to mention the new champion entirely.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/23/patsy-fagan-talks-uk-championship-glory-car-crash-yips-the-rocket-and-lost-trophies-13637003/

    Rare to hear that side of the Davis’ discussed, only ever hear them spoken of fondly, interesting.

    40 is far too young these days, I’d set it at 50. Too unfair on the older players coming up against players just coming off the tour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Rare to hear that side of the Davis’ discussed, only ever hear them spoken of fondly, interesting.

    40 is far too young these days, I’d set it at 50. Too unfair on the older players coming up against players just coming off the tour.

    It's basically old history and not really part of the official narrative. Which is understandable in a way. The davis' were great players and lorded over the sport for 50 years. But there was a new breed of player, led by higgins, coming through in the 70s that went against the more genteel image of the game and they fought it as long as they could. I remember jimmy often saying - years ago - that the best player he ever saw was Patsy Houlihan but the Davis' kept him out of the pro ranks because he had a criminal record for petty offences and was clearly a "wrong 'un". A lot of that generation were still probably smarting that the game had ever gone down the pro route at all!

    50 should be the logical cut off point for seniors, but I'd guess the worry is they'd never sell it if they didn't have the quality of the younger players to draw on. Be nice to think you could have a proper competitive tour there but you'd probably have to split the difference and say 45 to make it viable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,332 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley




    The last frame and the presentation by Joe Davis at the 1977 UK championship is on you tube. Of course old Joe died the following summer.

    I don't know where these guys dig some of these videos out of, but it's good that Patsy's win is up there for us to see after all these years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public




    The last frame and the presentation by Joe Davis at the 1977 UK championship is on you tube. Of course old Joe died the following summer.

    I don't know where these guys dig some of these videos out of, but it's good that Patsy's win is up there for us to see after all these years.

    Great stuff. Haven't watched that for a while. A friend of Patsys set up a website a few years ago and uploaded all the footage they had. Can't see on my phone whether the links still work or not but i remember there was some nice footage with Patsy and Alex as well as the uk stuff.

    http://www.patsyfagan.com/archives/video.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭fran38


    Any one of ye know if the snooker club in Bray is still there. I was in it once back in 1991very briefly. Just wondering.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭bradolf pittler


    Just been given a sneak peek at the plans for the new SBI headquarters planned for Carlow to replace the old Ivy Rooms.
    Theres gonna be 7 or 8 tables with 1 arena type match table,Players lounge with kitchen,Coaching area,Meeting rooms and even a small shop for cues and accessories etc.
    Some of the tables will be Stars like the ones used by the pros but that depends on how much funding the can acquire from Sport Ireland.
    No idea of an opening date as of yet due to covid of course but i'm told it will be fully operational by Sept with a soft opening in mid summer.
    Should be a great shot in the arm for the game in the country when everything opens up but like i've said before the powers that be have a huge job on their hands to get the game of snooker back to anywhere near its former glory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭FR01


    Just been given a sneak peek at the plans for the new SBI headquarters planned for Carlow to replace the old Ivy Rooms.
    Theres gonna be 7 or 8 tables with 1 arena type match table,Players lounge with kitchen,Coaching area,Meeting rooms and even a small shop for cues and accessories etc.
    Some of the tables will be Stars like the ones used by the pros but that depends on how much funding the can acquire from Sport Ireland.
    No idea of an opening date as of yet due to covid of course but i'm told it will be fully operational by Sept with a soft opening in mid summer.
    Should be a great shot in the arm for the game in the country when everything opens up but like i've said before the powers that be have a huge job on their hands to get the game of snooker back to anywhere near its former glory.

    Fund the grass roots, improve the coaching set up and fund more clubs scattered throughout the country. That’s what they need to be doing instead of opening up some fancy new set up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Be nice to do loads of things but i think we have to be real. What support does snooker get from the state and why cant it get more? Core grant last year was 75k which is lower than pitch&putt or surfing. In the covid relief grants given out just before xmas, cue sports got nothing. The GAA got 30m as well as a €15m gift just for putting on the championships. And fair play to them for that, of course. Some time back i sifted through the list of capital improvement grants handed out going back to 2001 and could not find a single snooker club listed. Not to say it never happened, just i couldnt find it.

    Question is how does the sport make a case for a greater share of the pie. Not easy. I do welcome the new venture, a hq and centre of high performance is absolutely essential and wish them luck with it. If only snooker could find a way onto the Olympic roster...but that is mere pipe dream really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭FR01


    Be nice to do loads of things but i think we have to be real. What support does snooker get from the state and why cant it get more? Core grant last year was 75k which is lower than pitch&putt or surfing. In the covid relief grants given out just before xmas, cue sports got nothing. The GAA got 30m as well as a €15m gift just for putting on the championships. And fair play to them for that, of course. Some time back i sifted through the list of capital improvement grants handed out going back to 2001 and could not find a single snooker club listed. Not to say it never happened, just i couldnt find it.

    Question is how does the sport make a case for a greater share of the pie. Not easy. I do welcome the new venture, a hq and centre of high performance is absolutely essential and wish them luck with it. If only snooker could find a way onto the Olympic roster...but that is mere pipe dream really.

    Only one club ever got a handout - the rest were expected to provide their facilities, I’d hate to calculate the amount of grant money the national association have pissed away throughout the years on pointless expenses and junkets etc but then again that’s another story.

    To promote the game it’s very simple, help out the clubs scattered through the four corners of the country. Throw them a set of balls, a new cloth , anything at all that shows them the national association actually cares about them ? God knows they need all the help they can get now !


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    I guess everybody has their own ideas. And of course you want to see clubs and those at the grassroots being supported. The need to strike a balance between high performance sector and grassroots is a perennial issue for every sport, particularly those without access to even the most modest of money trees.

    In an ideal world, i'd love to see the likes of Ken and fergal getting more involved in the governing side of things, in whatever role will help. Probably only very minor while they're still on tour but any little bit help. I'd also like to know the breakdown between commercial and community in relation to clubs. I think the time is long gone we can rely on the commercial sector to keep going. I think the Institute in nenagh is community run and that club has a great record of producing top club players. The uk has a great advantage with the chinese based there and more and more academies opening up, i notice a steady stream of uk players moving to sign up for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭bradolf pittler


    FR01 wrote: »
    Fund the grass roots, improve the coaching set up and fund more clubs scattered throughout the country. That’s what they need to be doing instead of opening up some fancy new set up.

    I'd agree about funding grass roots.The old RIBSA seemed to be obsessed with finding the next Ken or Fergal other then what was really needed.....Finding 100 or so Juniors to kick start the conveyor belt and keeping them involved in the game after they go overage.
    I believe that a national coaching network is in the works.No details as yet but but I've seen on their site in the past that they regularly hold coaching seminars to grade new coaches.
    The "Fancy new set up" is badly needed.Most players main gripe is the inconsistency and poor quality of the tables they play on in comps.All going well they will have top match tables which will benefit all comers from the bangers to the Q school hopefulls.
    This Academy is a good thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭FR01


    I'd agree about funding grass roots.The old RIBSA seemed to be obsessed with finding the next Ken or Fergal other then what was really needed.....Finding 100 or so Juniors to kick start the conveyor belt and keeping them involved in the game after they go overage.
    I believe that a national coaching network is in the works.No details as yet but but I've seen on their site in the past that they regularly hold coaching seminars to grade new coaches.
    The "Fancy new set up" is badly needed.Most players main gripe is the inconsistency and poor quality of the tables they play on in comps.All going well they will have top match tables which will benefit all comers from the bangers to the Q school hopefulls.
    This Academy is a good thing.

    Locating the new venue in Carlow will hardly help juniors from all corners of Ireland attend events especially when they have a 10am start on a Saturday morning ! Same for everyone who enters I guess.

    As for a national coaching network ? Yes they are training new coaches but in an outdated programme run by a national coach that basically answers to no one. Ireland’s current highest qualified WPBSA coach is not even included in any discussion re a new coaching network.

    Also RILSA who have basically grown the ladies game on their own with entry figures only the national association can only dream about have never been approached by SBI, so much so that they have set up their own academy in Kildare.

    Granted the new association have new people on board and perhaps they should be given time but I really fear that they are jumping into this new set up with their eyes firmly closed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭FR01


    The national snooker association receives €75,000 in today’s sports grants - lets hope that it goes into promoting the grassroots of the game and is not wasted on useless junkets abroad etc ��


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭bradolf pittler


    https://sbireland.ie/2021/04/17/irish-snooker-starting-on-long-road-back-to-glory-days/

    Good article and i agree with a lot that was said.
    The days of large commercial snooker clubs are coming to an end, Grant funded community clubs are starting to spring up especially in the southern regions for some reason and this hopefully will lead to a resurgence at a grassroots level.
    Dunno whats meant by "junkets"?
    I can only think of EBSA and IBSF events where players and officials are sent to represent Ireland not only in playing in the events but attending AGM's where decisions are made at at European and World level. Hardly "junket" trips.They are not the FAI.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public



    Read that the other day, very interesting. Great to see Dylan Rees talk about establishing more community clubs because i think that has to be the future. Lovely to hear about Freddie Chute and a new club opening up in thurles, my old stomping ground back in the day. From small acorns etc


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