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organic farming

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13567…81

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    #62
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    I've never grazed mine and only cut it twice a year, but it was mowed a bit low last year alright. I hear it needs a high pH, 7 if possible. We have that where it is.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #63
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    blue5000 wrote:
    I've never grazed mine and only cut it twice a year, but it was mowed a bit low last year alright. I hear it needs a high pH, 7 if possible. We have that where it is.

    Low mowing won't help the contractor here ruined the first few rounds by cutting too low. It's a serious feed though we finished bullocks on it alone this winter.


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    #64
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    If there was any crop I'd like to try, it would be this sometime.
    Did you ever get it tested? Do you have to do a full reseed every 2-three years or do you overseed? Good management necessary I would think.


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    #65
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    Have to say my ears are slightly pricked! In terms of milking cows would a herd of shorthorns, moderate yield but low input cows be viable? Anyone doing it?


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    #66
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Have to say my ears are slightly pricked! In terms of milking cows would a herd of shorthorns, moderate yield but low input cows be viable? Anyone doing it?

    That was the thought which was crossing my mind. I know a good few doing it in the UK, and I know there are some shorthorn herds here but I don't think theres a lot of support from AI etc..


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    #67
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Muckit wrote:
    If there was any crop I'd like to try, it would be this sometime. Did you ever get it tested? Do you have to do a full reseed every 2-three years or do you overseed? Good management necessary I would think.

    I never tested it myself but at the farm walk they had tested and it was 78 DMD and 19% crude protein which is rocket fuel.

    We put it in as a full reseed before we converted but it got no sprays or anything and yielded 25 bales to the acre over 3 cuts last year.

    It doesn't need any nitrogen only Ps and Ks so you'd get a serious reaction to a bag of 0-7-30 if you had that option. In fact teagasc have done research that shows if clover gets nitrogen it gets lazy and actually grows better with no nitrogen.


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    #68
    White Clover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,558 ✭✭✭White Clover


    This red clover conversation has me thinking!
    Tractorporn, you have it set on peat soil? What Ph is it? Are u happy with the yield? Do you wilt it before baling and what DM would you be baling it at?
    Thanks


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    #69
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Willfarman wrote:
    Have to say my ears are slightly pricked! In terms of milking cows would a herd of shorthorns, moderate yield but low input cows be viable? Anyone doing it?

    kowtow wrote:
    That was the thought which was crossing my mind. I know a good few doing it in the UK, and I know there are some shorthorn herds here but I don't think theres a lot of support from AI etc..

    One of the best organic dairy herds in England is a pure bred Shorthorn herd. He's very active on twitter @jrfromstrickley he's president of the shorthorn association as well.

    Those type of cows tend to do best in an organic system. A lot of lads are producing milk for cheese so are milking Rotbunt's, Montbellard's and Shorthorns for the solids.


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    #70
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    White Clover wrote:
    This red clover conversation has me thinking! Tractorporn, you have it set on peat soil? What Ph is it? Are u happy with the yield? Do you wilt it before baling and what DM would you be baling it at? Thanks

    I can't understand why everyone isn't growing some! The ph was around 5.5 before I set the seed and it got 3 bags of gran lime but it wasn't enough I think. That and it was wet enough baling once last year and you could spot the tracks of the baler were the clover was missing.

    I'm happy with the yield it gets noting here only a bit of dung in the spring. Proof is in the pudding and next year I have a piece of heavier clay earmarked for the next bit of red clover.

    I usually give it a gentle turn with the lely rake, try and go slow at low revs. Like I said said I've never tested my own but try and get it as dry as I can before baling. Now the bales look manky when you open them the leaves of the clover turn black when fermenting but the cattle go mad for it. I better say we set the clover 50:50 with ryegrass/white clover silage mix it came from Cotswolds seeds. The grass helps with fermenting the clover.


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    #71
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    Did the mri breed disappear? There was a herd of them locally here 20 years ago. We used to get an odd 3 spin cow and we loved them. Serious milk for two calves and their own would rival any continental. The here'd was depopulated with Tb.


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    #72
    keryl
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭keryl


    Any updates from Organic Farmers? Im curious how everyone is getting on with the weather we've been having? Also the situation with straw?

    Those that have used Red Clover, has it been successful or do you think more variety would be the go?


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    #73
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    keryl wrote: »
    Any updates from Organic Farmers? Im curious how everyone is getting on with the weather we've been having? Also the situation with straw?

    Those that have used Red Clover, has it been successful or do you think more variety would be the go?

    Not organic (yet) but I have red clover in it's 3rd year and it's still yielding well.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #74
    k mac
    Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭k mac


    Has the organic scheme just reopened. Anyone thinking of converting??


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    #75
    anthony500_1
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭anthony500_1


    k mac wrote:
    Has the organic scheme just reopened. Anyone thinking of converting??


    Yes I believe it has, teagasc are running farm open days from Jan on all types of organic farms. If a man could only live with the place full of docks thistles and rushes it would be a great scheme.

    Info is up on Dept website as to what's required of individual farm practices


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    #76
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    k mac wrote: »
    Has the organic scheme just reopened. Anyone thinking of converting??

    Yeah it's opened again and closing on the 19th. Doesn't seem to be open to everyone this time seems to be a marking system favouring horticulture, tillage and dairy.


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    #77
    sea12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭sea12


    anthony500_1 wrote: »
    Yes I believe it has, teagasc are running farm open days from Jan on all types of organic farms. If a man could only live with the place full of docks thistles and rushes it would be a great scheme.

    Info is up on Dept website as to what's required of individual farm practices

    Was talking to an organic farmer at a farm walk last week and he was very positive about it. It was very well kept farm


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    #78
    k mac
    Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭k mac


    Closing again on the 19th December that's a very short window


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    #79
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    k mac wrote: »
    Closing again on the 19th December that's a very short window

    Yeah it's tight enough but that's the way they want it. I'd say the numbers let in will be small enough too.


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    #80
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    sea12 wrote: »
    Was talking to an organic farmer at a farm walk last week and he was very positive about it. It was very well kept farm

    Did a farm walk a few years ago on Kim McCalls organic farm just outside Kilcullen. Place was top class with every level of production full intergrated and working in perfect harmony from an environemental and economic standpoint. Folks may know him as one of the top Aubrac breeders in the country


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    #81
    jfh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭jfh


    seriously thinking of going into this, any cons from people who converted?
    are cattle ok on slats or is it straw beds that they want.
    also whats the 25hr course like?


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    #82
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    jfh wrote: »
    seriously thinking of going into this, any cons from people who converted?
    are cattle ok on slats or is it straw beds that they want.
    also whats the 25hr course like?

    Course is handy enough I did it with teagasc and I was one day a week for 4 weeks.

    You can have slats but the stock have to have a solid area to lie on and it has to be bedded as well. The area can be 50/50 slatted/solid


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    #83
    orchard farm
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭orchard farm


    Main issues for cattle/sheep farms are housing has to be min 50%dry area with min space requirements per size of animal.min stocking rate0.5/ha.no chemicals sprays,nitrogen etc.dosing has more restrictions,meal has to be organic double price, if buying hay/ silage has to be organic too,organic grass seed is preferred but permission can be got for undressed seed. more record keeping and debudding of calves and castration need to be given anesthetic first.suits self stocking farms as only organic stock can be bought in.course has to be paid for also annual payment for organic certification circa 600euro,out from that??


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    #84
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    orchard farm wrote: »
    Main issues for cattle/sheep farms are housing has to be min 50%dry area with min space requirements per size of animal.min stocking rate0.5/ha.no chemicals sprays,nitrogen etc.dosing has more restrictions,meal has to be organic double price, if buying hay/ silage has to be organic too,organic grass seed is preferred but permission can be got for undressed seed. more record keeping and debudding of calves and castration need to be given anesthetic first.suits self stocking farms as only organic stock can be bought in.out from that??

    Imo the anaesthetic for skulling and castration is gonna catch out a lot of lads, I know a few guys got a slap on the wrist this year for not having the piece of paperwork with the permission for skulling. It's extra work for zero eztra reward.


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    #85
    jfh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭jfh


    tractorporn wrote: »
    Course is handy enough I did it with teagasc and I was one day a week for 4 weeks.

    You can have slats but the stock have to have a solid area to lie on and it has to be bedded as well. The area can be 50/50 slatted/solid

    yeah, that's me out so, no lie back area, going to work towards this tho & hopefully in 2021 be ready


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    #86
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Can the access to dry bed shed be across the yard from slatted unit, feed in slatted unit but let access to either shed for them ?


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    #87
    orchard farm
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭orchard farm


    _Brian wrote: »
    Can the access to dry bed shed be across the yard from slatted unit, feed in slatted unit but let access to either shed for them ?

    If it's freely accessible at all times don't see why not


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    #88
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,056 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    tractorporn wrote: »
    Course is handy enough I did it with teagasc and I was one day a week for 4 weeks.

    You can have slats but the stock have to have a solid area to lie on and it has to be bedded as well. The area can be 50/50 slatted/solid

    Surely a straw bed on the slats will pass.Could 24 ft deep pens (double row slats) not have the back bedded


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    #89
    manjou
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭manjou


    wrangler wrote: »
    Surely a straw bed on the slats will pass.Could 24 ft deep pens (double row slats) not have the back bedded

    no can't bed slats.l changed half the slats in 1 shed to solid slabs that had to be certified to carry tractor. Grant aided under tams. think this was brought in to stop slats colapsing under weight of tractor when cleaning out . cattle have to have access to bedded area all the time. you can use cubicles but not sure of regs on size and bedding.


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    #90
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    manjou wrote: »
    no can't bed slats.l changed half the slats in 1 shed to solid slabs that had to be certified to carry tractor. Grant aided under tams. think this was brought in to stop slats colapsing under weight of tractor when cleaning out . cattle have to have access to bedded area all the time. you can use cubicles but not sure of regs on size and bedding.

    There have to more cubicles than animals, I think the size can depend on the size of your animals but think big... With plenty of lunge space, can't use peat for bedding either,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #91
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    _Brian wrote: »
    Can the access to dry bed shed be across the yard from slatted unit, feed in slatted unit but let access to either shed for them ?

    Yeah you can have a run across a yard alright but the stock have to have access at all times. And you'd be more likely to have an unannounced visit from your inspector as well


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