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Irish Rugby and Sevens

12357…75

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  • #122
    backawaygo onahead
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭backawaygo onahead


    Despite protestation to the contrary Ireland & the Irish are not psychologically suited to 7s. 7s is an abomination to all right-thinking Paddies.

    Why? Well could someone name just one genuinely electrically fast Irish player in the last 50 years, someone capable in a one to one against a speedster that is capable of winning a foot race?

    Thought not, though doubtless some will mention Hickie who is as close as I can recall, some might go back to Geohegan but though he had a lot of action in his running style but he was just quick, not blinding. Tommy Bowe? As George Hook;)

    7s is a game of stamina but above all pace & all the great teams have one or more flyers. Think of Ireland's pedigree in the Olympic 100ms, not much to be joyful about - we don't do flyers.

    In all honesty I completely back those who describe it as a different game & its one I have no interest in, same as RL or 5 tackles and a kick as we cynics call it.

    It is a great matter of pride to me and all proper fans of "real" 15 a side rugby that the IRFU manfully refuse to pay anything but lip service to the evil that is 7s. Let the rest of the world play it to their hearts content but in this country I hope it will long remain a sideshow for those without genuine rugby talent but with the ability to run fast - have they ever thought of athletics one wonders?

    Yours etc
    A Dinosaur


  • #123
    Volvic12
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Volvic12


    backawaygo onahead - I don't mean to have a go at you but that is one of the worst arguments I have ever heard.

    "7s is a game of stamina but above all pace & all the great teams have one or more flyers. Think of Ireland's pedigree in the Olympic 100ms, not much to be joyful about - we don't do flyers"

    Ridiculous comments made throughout. What Olympic 100ms pedigree have alot of the countries below have:
    Final positions:
    1. Portugal
    2. Spain
    3. France
    4. Georgia
    5. Scotland

    As far as development. New Zealand continue to feed a large proportion of their players through the 7's system to aid their development. It doesn't seem to do them any harm.

    As far as I'm concerned the IRFU have two choices. Make the decision now like sergeblanco suggests and prepare properly for Rio 2016 or make a decision now not to enter at all. What I don't want is the IRFU deciding in two years that we will enter a team and we go in with half assed preperation and get annihilated.

    In my opinion, it would be a shame if we did not enter a team in what is considered the greatest event in the world - the Olympics. Especially when with the right preparation, we could go quite far.

    Lets face the facts, IRFU will come under pressure to enter a team in 2016. If they don't, their reputation will be damaged. They will eventually cave in and enter a team in 2020. Why not do everyone a favour and get this going now.
    Thats the main problem with IRFU. All decisons are made at the top table. They don't want a debate. They forget that's it the clubs and schools that ARE the organisation and make it successful.
    Same reason that Connacht's growth has been purposely been stunted. They do what they want to suit them. Not its members, not the public. The public would like to see an Irish 7s team compete in the greatest sports event in the world.

    The exposure this will give the rugby will be massive and for Ireland not to be part of that is shameful in my opinion


  • #124
    Naomi00
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭Naomi00


    Volvic12 wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned the IRFU have two choices. Make the decision now like sergeblanco suggests and prepare properly for Rio 2016 or make a decision now not to enter at all. What I don't want is the IRFU deciding in two years that we will enter a team and we go in with half assed preperation and get annihilated.

    In my opinion, it would be a shame if we did not enter a team in what is considered the greatest event in the world - the Olympics. Especially when with the right preparation, we could go quite far.

    Lets face the facts, IRFU will come under pressure to enter a team in 2016. If they don't, their reputation will be damaged. They will eventually cave in and enter a team in 2020. Why not do everyone a favour and get this going now.
    Thats the main problem with IRFU. All decisons are made at the top table. They don't want a debate. They forget that's it the clubs and schools that ARE the organisation and make it successful.
    Same reason that Connacht's growth has been purposely been stunted. They do what they want to suit them. Not its members, not the public. The public would like to see an Irish 7s team compete in the greatest sports event in the world.

    The exposure this will give the rugby will be massive and for Ireland not to be part of that is shameful in my opinion

    I agree with most of this post but we do have a 7s team, but no one here seems to acknowlege that: http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26796.php

    Just as important in the Olympics as a men's team but they get little or no recognition. If it was the other way around this would not be the case.


  • #125
    Volvic12
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Volvic12


    That's a fair point. The women's team have not received the recognition they deserve but hopefully the better they get, the more recogniton they will receive (I know they have already performed quite well lately). I also think that 7s will have a great effect on womens rugby as it looks a fun sport and will encourage more women to get involved in rugby.


  • #126
    backawaygo onahead
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭backawaygo onahead


    Volvic12 wrote: »
    backawaygo onahead - I don't mean to have a go at you but that is one of the worst arguments I have ever heard.

    "7s is a game of stamina but above all pace & all the great teams have one or more flyers. Think of Ireland's pedigree in the Olympic 100ms, not much to be joyful about - we don't do flyers"

    Ridiculous comments made throughout. What Olympic 100ms pedigree have alot of the countries below have:
    Final positions:
    1. Portugal
    2. Spain
    3. France
    4. Georgia
    5. Scotland

    As far as development. New Zealand continue to feed a large proportion of their players through the 7's system to aid their development. It doesn't seem to do them any harm.

    As far as I'm concerned the IRFU have two choices. Make the decision now like sergeblanco suggests and prepare properly for Rio 2016 or make a decision now not to enter at all. What I don't want is the IRFU deciding in two years that we will enter a team and we go in with half assed preperation and get annihilated.

    In my opinion, it would be a shame if we did not enter a team in what is considered the greatest event in the world - the Olympics. Especially when with the right preparation, we could go quite far.

    Lets face the facts, IRFU will come under pressure to enter a team in 2016. If they don't, their reputation will be damaged. They will eventually cave in and enter a team in 2020. Why not do everyone a favour and get this going now.
    Thats the main problem with IRFU. All decisons are made at the top table. They don't want a debate. They forget that's it the clubs and schools that ARE the organisation and make it successful.
    Same reason that Connacht's growth has been purposely been stunted. They do what they want to suit them. Not its members, not the public. The public would like to see an Irish 7s team compete in the greatest sports event in the world.

    The exposure this will give the rugby will be massive and for Ireland not to be part of that is shameful in my opinion

    Not to worry old chap, broad shoulders etc etc, water off a duck's back don't you know.

    Incidentally with the possible exception of Georgia, & I say that only from a position of ignorance, all countries quoted have stellar sprinting records compared to Ireland, Scotland had the 100m Olympic gold medal in 1980 for example.

    Glad to see you quote my preferred option - not entering at all, indeed I'd horsewhip anyone in high office who encouraged this sort of tomfoolery.

    I am no to be swayed by logic, my aversion to 7s is total. I disagree by the way about damage to our reputation, as a 7s team we have no reputation to damage nor will we ever have, too many starchy spud meals pints of porter and a body shape not suited to producing flying machines - probably something in the ginger gene too.

    You may have noticed a certain jocular tone to my posts, not laugh out loud funny I grant you, but it shouldn't hide my main thrust, I don't rate 7's.

    Finally, just because you are out of step with majority opinion doesn't make you wrong, look at the finances of most of Europe, don't know about the rest of you but I'd love to be miles out of step with that majority, both nationally & personally ............... sadly ........ no cigar.


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  • #127
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    backawaygo onahead wrote: »
    I am no to be swayed by logic, my aversion to 7s is total. I disagree by the way about damage to our reputation, as a 7s team we have no reputation to damage nor will we ever have, too many starchy spud meals pints of porter and a body shape not suited to producing flying machines - probably something in the ginger gene too.

    You may have noticed a certain jocular tone to my posts, not laugh out loud funny I grant you, but it shouldn't hide my main thrust, I don't rate 7's.

    Finally, just because you are out of step with majority opinion doesn't make you wrong, look at the finances of most of Europe, don't know about the rest of you but I'd love to be miles out of step with that majority, both nationally & personally ............... sadly ........ no cigar.
    We "dont have the body shape suited to producing flying machines" is rubbish.
    There is two kids in munster who are u18 interpro's in sept who have ran 10.7 and in the 100 metres and another who is also a munster u18 in sept who has run 11 flat and below and there is more like them in the other provinces
    Its clear you dont rate 7s but we only have 4 pro teams and a 7s team would give us the chance to have 10+ more players train full time as professionals. If we entered a team in world series im sure after a few years we would get the chance to host a leg and that would cover costs.
    7s played a major role in the development of many top players and there is no reason why we cant use it for the same purpose


  • #128
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    ormond lad wrote: »
    7s played a major role in the development of many top players and there is no reason why we cant use it for the same purpose

    correlation.png

    I'm sceptical of how much 7s has actually developed some players as opposed to very good 15s players also being quite good 7s players. Many of the NZ players, for example, that came through the 7s game would have come through anyway without it imo.

    On top of that, the very best 7s players tend to be just that - 7s players. They spend their careers on the 7s circuit. They're different sports to my mind and being a 7s player is a specialised role where a lot of the elements don't come across to XVs.


  • #129
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'm sceptical of how much 7s has actually developed some players as opposed to very good 15s players also being quite good 7s players. Many of the NZ players, for example, that came through the 7s game would have come through anyway without it imo.

    On top of that, the very best 7s players tend to be just that - 7s players. They spend their careers on the 7s circuit. They're different sports to my mind and being a 7s player is a specialised role where a lot of the elements don't come across to XVs.
    Many of the NZers who came through 7s prob would have came through anyway but they still played 7s mainly in the years before they were 1st string All Blacks and got the opportunity to play as contracted full time pro's instead of playing away at whatever club level etc.
    It is used as a development set up and gives players games, experience etc before they go on to play super 15.
    The very best 7s players nowadays are specialised but that doesnt mean 7s cant play a role in developing players for the 15 man game.
    7s is the perfect game for players in recognising space in attack and defence from how to exploit weaknesses in attacks and defences as well as learning the skill of recognising when and where to give the ball to a player in a better position who can then use the ball in a more effective way.


  • #130
    backawaygo onahead
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭backawaygo onahead


    ormond lad wrote: »
    We "dont have the body shape suited to producing flying machines" is rubbish.
    There is two kids in munster who are u18 interpro's in sept who have ran 10.7 and in the 100 metres and another who is also a munster u18 in sept who has run 11 flat and below and there is more like them in the other provinces
    Its clear you dont rate 7s but we only have 4 pro teams and a 7s team would give us the chance to have 10+ more players train full time as professionals. If we entered a team in world series im sure after a few years we would get the chance to host a leg and that would cover costs.
    7s played a major role in the development of many top players and there is no reason why we cant use it for the same purpose

    Things wrong with that:
    1. You have misquoted me
    2. you have taken a glib remark much much too seriously
    3. without being rude, you have made some assertions there without any relevant qualification and in a court of law they would be dismissed as completely unsubstantiated.
    You contend that a 7s team would give another 10 pro players, I simply can't accept that as meaningful given that a huge proportion of top class 7s players never ever look close to being top class 15s players (or as I prefer to call it - rugby players.)



    Peace. You have correctly sussed that I have no time for 7s - lets not argue further. No point really.


  • #131
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    It's been mentioned a few times that Sevens and the full game are diverging and now NZ are formally putting plans in place to do so.

    "Up to 10 full-time men's sevens players could be contracted by the end of 2013 as part of a gradual progression towards having 20 specialists for coach Gordon Tietjens to select from in preparation for Rio

    ...all sevens players are currently aligned to a provincial union and play a large part of the NPC to top up their earnings.
    It is understood that from next year those who secure full-time sevens contracts will not be required to play the NPC, or Super Rugby."

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/sevens/8112563/Sevens-salary-increases-to-establish-career-paths


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  • #132
    sergeblanco
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭sergeblanco


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Women's side has been started for this very purpose (and not as a retroactive move following an apparent online petition this year). Appointing a coach isn't the first step made when doing the background work on a brand new representitive squad.

    Men's side I have already answered on as have I answered on any timeframe involved should a decision be made towards forming squad in 2013 (once the qualification criteria are actually finalised).


    The qualification criteria are finalised in a statement here on the Olympics Ireland website http://www.olympicsport.ie/sports/rugby/7082-rugby-sevens-2016.html, any idea how long it'll take the IRFU to make a decision?

    They'd surely need to get a mens team going for the IRB series in the 2013/2014 season to stand any chance of developing a squad with a chance of making it.

    On another note....I wonder what the story will be with UK vs Scotland/Wales/England....It'd probably give Ireland a better chance of qualifying if they did a team GB cuz there'd be less teams to beat!


  • #133
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Top 4 plus one team from each region... we're screwed!


  • #134
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Lets say there is no team GB because of politics, top four would probably be NZ Fiji Samoa and South Africa. Then France as the Europe qualifier.


  • #135
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Lets say there is no team GB because of politics, top four would probably be NZ Fiji Samoa and South Africa. Then France as the Europe qualifier.

    There will be a GB team. Not a hope of Team GB and the rugby unions of England, Scotland and Wales missing out.

    And I'd rate Spain as a better prospect than the French.


  • #136
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    JustinDee wrote: »
    There will be a GB team. Not a hope of Team GB and the rugby unions of England, Scotland and Wales missing out.

    I can't see the unions giving up their world series teams either. Would team GB just show up to the European regional qualifiers??


  • #137
    backgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭backgreen


    record of the home nations in the 7s world cup
    IRL 1993...3rd 1997..19th 2001..19th 2005...13th 2009 ..19th 2013...no team

    wales 1993...11th 1997...13th 2001...11th 2005..no team 2009..1st 2013..?

    scotland 1993..14th 1997...11th 2001...no team 2005...13th 2009...9th 2013...?

    england 1993...1st 1997...5th 2001..5th 2005...3rd 2009...5th 2013..?

    kenya finished 3rd in 2009

    The IRB are going to put pressure on us eventually to enter a mens 7s,we being an elite rugby nation,so we might as well bite the bullet now or we are going to be years trying to catch up..


  • #138
    sergeblanco
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭sergeblanco


    Looking at those qualification standards, if I'd to guess the top 4 in the world series for next year, I'd go with NZ, Fiji, Kenya and Team GB.

    After that then you'd probably have Samoa, USA, South Africa, Argentina, an Asian team and then the battle of Europe would be between France, Portugal, Spain, Russia and Ireland (if we started soon!!!). That's the 6 others picked.

    If we didn't win Europe then we'd probably be up against the likes of Australia, Canada, Portugal and Zimbabwe in the Repechage which could actually be a more difficult prospect! Surely Brazil would enter a team as a host nation meaning that only one from the repechage would go through.

    All in all, it's not an insurmountable task for Ireland if a team was put together for the coming season. We were within a score of beating Wales and Portugal at the European Championships 4 years ago and beat Australia at the last WC and that was with minimal preparatoin. The one-off victories show potential, the experience of consistent tournaments could then realise that potential.


  • #139
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Does this mean Team GB will take part in the series, or will they aggregate their rankings somehow?


  • #140
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    If there is a more current thread than this apologies Mods. Just watching the Vegas leg of the WS7s. Russia and Canada both playing and although shield and bowl being the lower half of the field, they are getting lots of experience against Rio bound sides. Both will also feature in the Monaco last ditch repechage in June.

    Ireland need to win that 16 team tourney to QF. What are the chances? Will either of our Women's or Men's team make it?

    Interesting to see Quade Cooper, Habana and SBW featuring in the series of late. Would Ireland draft in 1 or 2 elites to boost chances of QF?


  • #141
    guapos
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭guapos


    http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057395851&page=23


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  • #142
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    As this thread has been bumped up...
    We have an Irish u18 side that is due to take part in a European 7s championship in Romania in September but we don't really have any major age grade 7s tournaments.
    I know a few years ago Munster ran 7s tournaments quite a lot both in schools and clubs. There was some regional 7s tournaments primarily in East/North Munster...
    And quite a few schools tournaments but should we have annual age grade tournaments at under 13/14/15/17/19/20 and any schools/clubs can enter with only a few limitations in terms of provincial players....


  • #143
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Dublin 7s is on Saturday week. Games in Donnybrook with a tag festival in Belvedere...

    Lot of AIL sides taking part


  • #144
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    No sign of TP World Club 7s, I assume it's not happening?


  • #145
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Fixtures for Donnybrook 7s tomorrow
    Ulster competing against Germany, Biarritz and a few others

    All sides competing in Club competition from Dublin...
    http://www.98fm.com/Fatman-Scoop-To-Play-Rugby-7s-Festival-


  • #146
    Braken
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Braken


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    No sign of TP World Club 7s, I assume it's not happening?
    The 9/10th of August Thomond Park


  • #147
    zambrotta11
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭zambrotta11


    Braken wrote: »
    The 9/10th of August Thomond Park

    Having it on a Tuesday and a Wednesday is a bit strange.


  • #148
    Braken
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Braken


    zambrotta11 wrote: »
    Having it on a Tuesday and a Wednesday is a bit strange.
    Sorry my fault...these were last years dates,don't think it's happening this year


  • #149
    Kiwi_knock
    Registered Users Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    CjJS7RnWUAAA0FL.jpg

    Tough draw having to play the favourites Samoa.


  • #150
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Squads beginning to be named for Dublin 7s

    Ulster
    Academy Contracted players:
    David Shanahan, Zac McCall, Alex Thompson, John Donnan, Andrew Magrath
    Club players:
    Robbie Reid, Jonny Rosborough, Peter Dunlop, Mark Glover, John Crieghton, Mikey Poskitt, Josh McIlroy


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  • #151
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Girls Under 18 Interprovincial 7s were held today.
    Would be great to see more events like this for Boys and mens teams.

    Mens International team unbeaten in 3 games in European trophy today. Beat Monaco, Isreal and Cyprus.
    More games tomorrow


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