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Apprenticeship rates are just depressing

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    #122
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Danny552 wrote: »
    But I could be sent to cork or anywhere really would they try send you to thses colleges if you are close to them?

    Sent anywhere they do a list and take the names as they reach the top, I know Dublin based lads who were sent to Donegal, Sligo, Limerick and plenty of other spots.


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    #123
    The Mulk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭The Mulk


    salmocab wrote: »
    Sent anywhere they do a list and take the names as they reach the top, I know Dublin based lads who were sent to Donegal, Sligo, Limerick and plenty of other spots.

    That's true, you can refuse your first block release and hope you get Dublin the second time around, but that can delay your apprenticeship. Your second one could be worse (location wise) than your first.
    Every ETB has a training centre delivering Phase 2 electrical except for Kildare/Wicklow.

    Best of luck.


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    #124
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    The Mulk wrote: »
    That's true, you can refuse your first block release and hope you get Dublin the second time around, but that can delay your apprenticeship. Your second one could be worse (location wise) than your first.
    Every ETB has a training centre delivering Phase 2 electrical except for Kildare/Wicklow.

    Best of luck.
    Yeah if you refuse you just go back on the list and get wherever comes up next time. I know one lad who was sent to Donegal from Dublin and he loved it only came home once and a few that just hated it. I’m old enough that I went to Kevin street each of the 4 years for 3 months. Same time each year and broadly the same blokes in my class.


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    #125
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    Augeo wrote: »
    Lots of lads are great at telliing you they're on a grand a week without mentioning the 10 hour days and the half day Saturday :pac:


    that's what I was thinking, have a few friends who are/were sparks... either past phase 4 or fully qualified... only ones of them on big money were either business owners with 3 or 4 vans out, working for a big contract that they'll be laid off from when the work is done, or doing a lot of cash in hand work....


    Eir apprenticeship might be an option, not your usual 4 year trade apprenticeship, it's 2 years, will have a solid wage and benefit in kind van, qualified wage after 2 years was around 30k with increments over a few years thereafter...


    Depending where in the country people are, Openreach would be the NI equivalent... telecoms is a good sector to get into, plenty of side shifting and contract work


  • Options
    #126
    badboyblast
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭badboyblast


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    So, I'm currently looking at a career change. I've done a lot of management and sales work, but it's never made me happy and far too often the companies make cuts and job losses kick in.

    With that in mind I thought long and hard and thought I'd check out doing a mechanics apprenticeship (at the age of 36). However, with Cork County Council announcing they're now hiring, I decided to check it out and read their information.

    Link here



    So after 4 years, you're finishing up on €23,000 p/a. Sure you can argue it's a trade, but how far can it really go. I'm hardly surprised that a lot of younger lads aren't bothering with trades anymore, it's a lot of back breaking work for sod all pay.

    Sure, €23k a year is decent when you're 20 years old, but what about when you're 30 or 40 or 50 years old? Surely the pay won't get much better, how are you expected to start a family or even consider buying a home?



    Where are you getting 23K from after 4 years, come on man, that's basic maths


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    #127
    crazy_kenny
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭crazy_kenny


    https://www.mercuryeng.com/careers/learning-development/apprenticeships/?cn-reloaded=1


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    #128
    crazy_kenny
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭crazy_kenny


    Also if you call your local Fas office they may have a list of employers looking for apprentices.


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    #129
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    When I started serving my time in 1998 I was on £2.20 per hour.
    It used to work out £85 a week after tax, and if I did 4 hours overtime on a Saturday, I'd end up with £95.

    By 2003 I was contracting, and earning around €2,000 a week.

    Serve your time. learn a skill. earn money with it.


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    #130
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    Danny552 wrote: »
    Yeah true I would say they would need to do over time to get up to 1k a week then you get taxed aswell.

    Most would come out with just under 800 a week for working normal hours Monday to Thursday and half day Friday.

    these days its 250 lodge and 24 per hour for sparks on big projects in Ireland.

    know lads working outside Ireland getting double lodge and increased rates+ travel, car and accommodation.


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    #131
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    sammye333 wrote: »
    these days its 250 lodge and 24 per hour for sparks on big projects in Ireland.

    know lads working outside Ireland getting double lodge and increased rates+ travel, car and accommodation.

    The lodge is tax free too


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    #132
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    salmocab wrote: »
    The lodge is tax free too


    I know :D


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    #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sammye333 wrote: »
    these days its 250 lodge and 24 per hour for sparks on big projects in Ireland.........

    A grand/week gross and then the lodge on top ........ it's not huge money.
    They are being charged out at 45/hour with contractor prelims on top of that.
    Some of them actually have to spend their lodge money on actual lodgings also or on long commutes. Loads of lads I know have been sent to WuXi Biologics in Dundalk for instance.

    This chap was on about net income.....
    Danny552 wrote: »
    Yeah true I would say they would need to do over time to get up to 1k a week then you get taxed aswell.

    Most would come out with just under 800 a week for working normal hours Monday to Thursday and half day Friday.

    Danny552 wrote: »
    .........
    know lads working outside Ireland getting double lodge and increased rates+ travel, car and accommodation.

    No doubt, but you have to go abroad for that....... it doesn't suit lots of folk, appeals to less now with the pandemic limiting trips home.


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    #134
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    Augeo wrote: »
    A grand/week gross and then the lodge on top ........ it's not huge money.
    They are being charged out at 45/hour with contractor prelims on top of that.
    Some of them actually have to spend their lodge money on actual lodgings also.

    This chap was on about net income.....

    a grand a week net if you do a bit of overtime.
    I agree that people have to spend money BUT that's life.

    The majority of people are not clearing 1k a week these days, so its a decent wage


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    #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sammye333 wrote: »
    a grand a week net if you do a bit of overtime.
    ........

    We've already mentioned that.
    Danny552 wrote: »
    Yeah true I would say they would need to do over time to get up to 1k a week then you get taxed aswell.

    Most would come out with just under 800 a week for working normal hours Monday to Thursday and half day Friday.
    Augeo wrote: »
    Lots of lads are great at telliing you they're on a grand a week without mentioning the 10 hour days and the half day Saturday :pac:
    sammye333 wrote: »
    ...... so its a decent wage

    No doubt but to go from €50k/annum gross to €1000/week after tax there's a nice bit of overtime involved. Add in a long commute and you are working hard for that 1000/week as nice as it may be to earn it.

    Some folks sh1t on about the grand a week as if they barely have to turn up for it at all.

    Lodge/country money is €181.68/week ........ anything over that and it's taxed or should be. there's also €5/day that can be paid for ‘Eating on site’ allowance.


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    #136
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    Augeo wrote: »
    We've already mentioned that.

    and?

    I was just commenting on the increased rates on some projects.
    the title of the thread is about the rates of apprenticeships .

    anyone pulling 800 is still decent money.
    i know plenty of people in other sectors on less than that


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    #137
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    sammye333 wrote: »
    these days its 250 lodge and 24 per hour for sparks on big projects in Ireland.

    know lads working outside Ireland getting double lodge and increased rates+ travel, car and accommodation.

    When I worked abroad regularly, I had my hotels/rent, cars & fuel all fully covered by expenses, and I also got €45 per day daily per diem (meals), so €315 per week, tax free.

    Some assignments lasted 18 months!!


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    #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sammye333 wrote: »
    and?.........

    I'm mentioning we already discussed that with respect to lads sh1tting on about their grand/week :pac:

    And then in you came :D


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    #139
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sammye333 wrote: »
    these days its 250 lodge and 24 per hour for sparks on big projects in Ireland..............
    sammye333 wrote: »
    and?

    I was just commenting on the increased rates on some projects.
    the title of the thread is about the rates of apprenticeships .
    ...

    What's the rate on not big projects in Ireland?
    I've never been charged under €40/hour for a spark excluding contractor preliminaries.


  • Options
    #140
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    Augeo wrote: »
    What's the rate on not big projects in Ireland?
    I've never been charged under €40/hour for a spark excluding contractor preliminaries.

    hard to say.
    I currently work abroad for one of the larger M&E companies .

    Originally, I was only commenting on the increased lodge.

    not looking for a pissing contest about what's good money:D


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    #141
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    Hi lads looking at getting into a electrician apprenticeship or E&I apprenticeship Is it possible to move into a E&I apprenticeship if I cant get into one at the moment

    Would my time spent in a electrician apprenticeship still count and carry over ?


    Looking at the phases and salary
    Phase 2 €274.95
    Phase 4 €412.23
    Phase 6 €595.53
    4th Year €733.20

    How many years would it take to get to phase 4?
    Would I be on 274.95 for just the first year then goes up again in my second year or does it only go up once you reach each phase?


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    #142
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    Hi lads looking at getting into a electrician apprenticeship or E&I apprenticeship Is it possible to move into a E&I apprenticeship if I cant get into one at the moment

    Would my time spent in a electrician apprenticeship still count and carry over ?


    Looking at the phases and salary
    Phase 2 €274.95
    Phase 4 €412.23
    Phase 6 €595.53
    4th Year €733.20

    How many years would it take to get to phase 4?
    Would I be on 274.95 for just the first year then goes up again in my second year or does it only go up once you reach each phase?

    What part of the country are you in.


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    #143
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    Hi lads looking at getting into a electrician apprenticeship or E&I apprenticeship Is it possible to move into a E&I apprenticeship if I cant get into one at the moment

    Would my time spent in a electrician apprenticeship still count and carry over ?


    Looking at the phases and salary
    Phase 2 €274.95
    Phase 4 €412.23
    Phase 6 €595.53
    4th Year €733.20

    How many years would it take to get to phase 4?
    Would I be on 274.95 for just the first year then goes up again in my second year or does it only go up once you reach each phase?

    The phases broadly follow a year 1&2 is 1st year and so on, might be a bit around the edges depending on getting into fas or college etc.


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    #144
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    sammye333 wrote: »
    What part of the country are you in.

    Hi I live in Dublin


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    #145
    sammye333
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭sammye333


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    Hi I live in Dublin


    Few companies working in Dublin area
    Mercury
    instrotec. They are e&i
    Jones engineering
    Kirby engineering


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    #146
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    sammye333 wrote: »
    Few companies working in Dublin area
    Mercury
    instrotec. They are e&i
    Jones engineering
    Kirby engineering



    Thanks not sure about going to the big companies starting off as I think I will be doing nothing for a year then when I go into phase 2 I wont have a clue how to do anything.

    What would I learn in the first year of phase 1 & 2

    Do you learn alot in college phases or neee to be lucky at who you get to teach you on the job as if I'm not learning I would just try get into another company maybe a small one .


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    #147
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    Thanks not sure about going to the big companies starting off as I think I will be doing nothing for a year then when I go into phase 2 I wont have a clue how to do anything.

    What would I learn in the first year of phase 1 & 2

    Do you learn alot in college phases or neee to be lucky at who you get to teach you on the job as if I'm not learning I would just try get into another company maybe a small one .


    You'll learn plenty with big companies...... Don't worry about that and don't worry about not let learning it all in 1st year either. The apprentices get to do the cable pulling and such stuff, has to be done, no need to be complaining about not learning.


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    #148
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Augeo wrote: »
    You'll learn plenty with big companies...... Don't worry about that and don't worry about not let learning it all in 1st year either. The apprentices get to do the cable pulling and such stuff, has to be done, no need to be complaining about not learning.

    Even fetching and carrying means learning what's what, all the bits for doing strut or conduit getting to know sizes by eye is important.


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    #149
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    salmocab wrote: »
    Even fetching and carrying means learning what's what, all the bits for doing strut or conduit getting to know sizes by eye is important.



    Is Strut and conduit hard
    Would Thatonly be done in industrial side of electrician like the big companies

    What about lift engineers would they be able to go into an electrician job or Vise versa as they would do the same college work in there apprenticeship.

    I know someone who was in the same college phases as electrician apprenticeship they were the only one working in a company that just does lifts.


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    #150
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    Is Strut and conduit hard
    Would Thatonly be done in industrial side of electrician like the big companies

    What about lift engineers would they be able to go into an electrician job or Vise versa as they would do the same college work in there apprenticeship.

    I know someone who was in the same college phases as electrician apprenticeship they were the only one working in a company that just does lifts.

    The steel work can be heavy work, it’s surprisingly skilled to get good at especially the conduit even though most of it is never seen again. Industrial would have lots of steel so would commercial whereas residential would have practically none except in maybe apartment blocks.

    Not sure on the lift engineers, I went to tech with one alright but I can’t remember meeting one who worked as just a spark afterwards.

    If I was starting out I’d look at a medium size company, someone like Designer or a small crowd who do a bit of everything. I’d not be keen to do mainly houses but doing a few one off houses is enjoyable work.


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    #151
    eggy81
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭eggy81


    Quadrivium wrote: »
    That's nonsense. As someone who has done both there is simply no comparison.

    A trade is good for some people because as you say it offers paid training and if you choose the right trade you might get relative job security but it has its limitation, trades can become very monotonous and they also have an earnings ceiling that is just above the average industrial wage plus working conditions are generally crap and hard on the body.

    Career focused degrees such as law, engineering, IT, surveying etc. all offer interesting and challenging careers with defined career paths which offer increased autonomy and salary up to an over €100k in senior roles as well as benefits that simply don't exist in the trades. You also don't have to break your body physically humping tonnes of construction materials every day up to your late 60's when you retire....if you live that long

    Those days of lugging stuff all over the place and being filthy are in an awful lot of cases gone especially in electrical or plumbing. Electrical in particular is not physically demanding.


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