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05-08-2020, 18:01   #1
mr_fegelien
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Why are religions against being gay?

I've heard many theories for this. It's a known fact that religions (the Abrahamic ones mostly) condemn homosexuality.

The main theory I've heard was that early primitive societies overemphazized the importance of traditional gender dynamics/relationships in order to survive the harsh times. That meant men could only marry one woman (polygamy has been common in most of history). Men were not allowed to be feminine and homosexuals were abhorred. This one actually seems to make sense as it seems to be a trend today. The wealthier countries in the world are less homophobic because traditional gender dynamics are less important for survival.

The other theory I've heard is that it was done to simply stop rampant STD's spreading. It's undeniable that bi/gay man have higher STD rates so perhaps ancient people noticed this and made homosexual sex a sin.
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05-08-2020, 18:10   #2
BuboBubo
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Historically seen as unnatural I'm guessing. We should go forth and multiply, or other nonsense.

The Sodom and Gomorrah story, coupled with the excesses of the Romans - the "bad guys" in a religious context.

Better for them to make us all God fearing, compliant, and not promiscuous = easier to control and extort money from people.

As a woman, I believe religion hasn't been fair to us either, I believe in God, but cut out the middle-man myself. Organised religion is just a money grab imo. Nobody should be marginalised for doing anything involving consensual adults.
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05-08-2020, 18:13   #3
Plumbjob
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I'm guessing most top priests, bishops, imams, rabbis favoured a bit of the auld sausage but didn't want to reveal it in case they lost their power and money..
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05-08-2020, 18:55   #4
Rodney Bathgate
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I'm guessing most top priests, bishops, imams, rabbis favoured a bit of the auld sausage but didn't want to reveal it in case they lost their power and money..
At least you included most of the main religions there so no one feels left out.
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06-08-2020, 03:20   #5
Peregrinus
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Because the connection between sex and reproduction was a much bigger dimension of sex for early societies than it is for us. And because, with high rates of child mortality, reproduction is not something that can be taken for granted. And because, with everyone's welfare, and even survival, being closely bound up with the welfare and success of the extended family and of the clan, successful reproduction was not a purely private concern.

So the main objection to homosexuality was that it didn't give rise to little kiddies. And, since that was so obviously the whole point of sex, that was a distortion or perversion of sex. And, since having little kiddies was a really important thing for the group, it was a really bad, dangerous distortion or perversion.

There was a second dimension to this, which was that in the early days the Abrahamic religions (and other religions in the neighbourhood) had no concept of an afterlife, or no clear concept. Whatever survived of you after death - your legacy, your continued existence, your importance to other people and to the world - resided in your descendants. So having descendants was really important; it was the point of living. So, again, because homosexuality wasn't reproductive it was seen as nihilistic; a rejection of your own value, or of the value of your own life. That was very disturbing.

Not all religions were necessarily down on gay sex, as such. There could be a social, and even religious, place for gay sex provided it didn't stop men from forming heterosexual partnerships and having kids. (The role of gay sex in classical Greek society is often pointed to to illustrate this.) But the idea of being gay, of having a fixed or even exclusive preference for same-sex relationships, was really transgressive.
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06-08-2020, 03:22   #6
Justin Credible Darts
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anyone that believes in an invisible man in the sky is always going to come up with an excuse to believe in utter nonsense
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06-08-2020, 11:11   #7
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Supposedly there was great orgies in the seminary back in the day and if you've a Grindr app on your phone it would probably light up if you were around Maynooth or the Vatican.

Other religions besides the Abrahamic's aren't as obsessed or strident about manly love.

I swing both ways myself and I enjoy it, it's great.
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06-08-2020, 12:19   #8
robindch
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So the main objection to homosexuality was that it didn't give rise to little kiddies.
No doubt the same reason that religious people object to abortion and contraception in general - these prevent little kiddies too.

Also, with the LGBT+ population between one and five percent of the overall population, it's an easy outgroup to create - small enough to be recognizable and to declare a looming threat, but neither big enough to cause problems nor to have much political power. Neutralizing the power of sexual attraction might also play a part - there can't be anything more frustrating than knowing that you're attractive enough to acquire an advantage over the opposite sex, only to learn that this advantage doesn't work with some people.
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06-08-2020, 12:23   #9
weldoninhio
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Homosexuality = no kids = no future customers. Simple as that.
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06-08-2020, 18:14   #10
smacl
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Because the connection between sex and reproduction was a much bigger dimension of sex for early societies than it is for us. And because, with high rates of child mortality, reproduction is not something that can be taken for granted. And because, with everyone's welfare, and even survival, being closely bound up with the welfare and success of the extended family and of the clan, successful reproduction was not a purely private concern.
I agree with your explanation above. What's interesting is that in order to become established as a nascent religion, Christianity had to be very pragmatic in terms of aligning its needs with those of its adherents and their society. Roll forward a couple of centuries and this pragmatism has atrophied into dogma that runs contrary to the interests of modern society. We don't have high childhood mortality rates, we don't want our populations to expand exponentially and we realise the importance of sex beyond reproduction. We also have considerably progressed notions such as egalitarianism. I suspect one of the major reasons the church is dying out in this country and elsewhere is it has failed to stay aligned with the needs of a modern society. The main appeal with Christianities regressive attitude to sex and sexuality these days seems to largely lie with the homophobic and misogynistic elements of the far right.
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06-08-2020, 22:45   #11
El_Duderino 09
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Some people really like the parts of religion that excuse them behaving as an azzhole. Look at your man Israel Falou. He loves the bits of Christianity that allow him to have a pop at gays and then gets to play the martyr (along with getting millions in a payout). He also used religion to be the only player not to kneel in solidarity with BLM because he "only knees for for god".

Some peope just like that fact that religion gives them cover to be a dick.

Last edited by El_Duderino 09; 07-08-2020 at 09:44.
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07-08-2020, 05:46   #12
lazygal
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I agree with your explanation above. What's interesting is that in order to become established as a nascent religion, Christianity had to be very pragmatic in terms of aligning its needs with those of its adherents and their society. Roll forward a couple of centuries and this pragmatism has atrophied into dogma that runs contrary to the interests of modern society. We don't have high childhood mortality rates, we don't want our populations to expand exponentially and we realise the importance of sex beyond reproduction. We also have considerably progressed notions such as egalitarianism. I suspect one of the major reasons the church is dying out in this country and elsewhere is it has failed to stay aligned with the needs of a modern society. The main appeal with Christianities regressive attitude to sex and sexuality these days seems to largely lie with the homophobic and misogynistic elements of the far right.
The churches are in a bind though. Change the rules and they admit they don't have doctrine based on divine revelation but can modernise and adapt bsed on what mere mortals deem appropriate.
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07-08-2020, 06:14   #13
Peregrinus
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The churches are in a bind though. Change the rules and they admit they don't have doctrine based on divine revelation but can modernise and adapt bsed on what mere mortals deem appropriate.
Mmm. False dichotomy there, I think. You can believe that a particular teaching has a supernaturally-guaranteed objective truth/validity, and at the same time that its application is a matter that has to be worked out at a particular time and in particular circumstances. The successful religions (and, its present circumstances notwithstanding, I think we must count Christianity among them) have traditionally been pretty adept at this.
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07-08-2020, 06:15   #14
Justin Credible Darts
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Homosexuality = no kids = no future customers. Simple as that.



Ha ! very good....
Thing is gay couples are as likely to adopt as much as straight couples, in fact more likely to be accepted for adoption with all this political correctness these days., but that is another argument.
However , church and god are two completely different things.

The church hated gays when it suited them, and are as likely to make out their doctrine is accepting now if it suited the church's cause.These people are professional liars.
We all know plenty people who go to mass, like to give the impression they are religious, but thats all just an image they put on.

I despise the church as a whole, even if there are some decent individuals connected to it.


As for God, I dont believe in that, its just Santa for grown ups, but because the church brainwashed me as a child with their mumbo jumbo, telling me about communion, brown catechism etc part of me , the optimist in me sort of hopes I am wrong and there is a god, but the realist in me tells me how utterly ridiculous the whole notion of the invisible man is.




There is this myth you need religion or god to be a decent person.
You can have decency, empathy, compassion, and love for your fellow humans, be accepting of all colours, creeds, gay people etc and not believe in god or the church,
There was never any agnostic crusades, no atheist inquisitions, all that type of stuff was left for the so called religious people.
go figure
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07-08-2020, 08:52   #15
weldoninhio
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Ha ! very good....
Thing is gay couples are as likely to adopt as much as straight couples, in fact more likely to be accepted for adoption with all this political correctness these days., but that is another argument.
However , church and god are two completely different things.

The church hated gays when it suited them, and are as likely to make out their doctrine is accepting now if it suited the church's cause.These people are professional liars.
We all know plenty people who go to mass, like to give the impression they are religious, but thats all just an image they put on.

I despise the church as a whole, even if there are some decent individuals connected to it.


As for God, I dont believe in that, its just Santa for grown ups, but because the church brainwashed me as a child with their mumbo jumbo, telling me about communion, brown catechism etc part of me , the optimist in me sort of hopes I am wrong and there is a god, but the realist in me tells me how utterly ridiculous the whole notion of the invisible man is.




There is this myth you need religion or god to be a decent person.
You can have decency, empathy, compassion, and love for your fellow humans, be accepting of all colours, creeds, gay people etc and not believe in god or the church,
There was never any agnostic crusades, no atheist inquisitions, all that type of stuff was left for the so called religious people.
go figure
Yes, but the bible or the Qaran weren't written recently. Way back when, gays would not have children. These books were written by men of that time.
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