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Child Receives Electric Shock from Damaged Lamp-Post

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  • 14-09-2020 5:45pm
    #1
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭


    A man I know knows a man who is now 40 something. When he was approximately 8 years old he received an electric shock from a street lamp post which had been vandalised. He , of course hadn't a clue what electricity could do but knows better now.


    He has permanent injuries which include difficulty controlling the arm through which he received the shock. He has difficulty therefore lifting things such as a glass with liquid in it which may end up all over the place.


    He also recently went to eat something using a fork and when putting the fork towards his mouth he just missed poking himself in the eye by a short distance.



    Writing can be a severe problem after a short time.


    Can he pursue compensation ?


«13

Comments

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    #2
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Mod
    Thread re-opened at poster's request


  • Options
    #3
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    How can you actually prove any of this if it happened 32 years ago?


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    #4
    Tails142
    Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tails142


    The window for bringing a personal injury claim is two years? Am I right? Suppose there's always exceptions


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    #5
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Doesn't it start running when the damage becomes apparent? Different from the OP's scenario, but say I got a kick in the bollocks when I was 12, but resultant sterility not diagnosed til I'm 40. How would that play out?

    Or sometime comparable, given that I don't know if that's a realistic hypothetical...


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    #6
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,708 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    By my estimate, if your mate is say 45, the statute ran out on this around 1999.

    I'm possibly wrong by a year or so either way but 1999 is 21 years ago so it's unlikely even on the narrow bases by which the statute can be extended in this case that it is possible to claim now.

    That said of course if he is serious about it, he should consult with a legal professional and preferably one who has been in practice a while.


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    #7
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Grolschevik wrote: »
    Doesn't it start running when the damage becomes apparent? Different from the OP's scenario, but say I got a kick in the bollocks when I was 12, but resultant sterility not diagnosed til I'm 40. How would that play out?

    Or sometime comparable, given that I don't know if that's a realistic hypothetical...
    For limitation period purposes, a person's knowledge that he has a cause of action includes "knowledge which he might reasonably have been expected to acquire . . . from facts ascertainable by him with the help of medical or other appropriate expert advice which it is reasonable for him to seek".

    So, if it would have been reasonable for him to seek medical advice on the consequences of the kick before reaching age 40, and that medical advice might reasanably be expected to disclose his sterility, he's cactus. And I guess whether it would have been reasonable to seek that advice will be one of the preliminary issues in the trial.


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    #8
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    How can you actually prove any of this if it happened 32 years ago?


    How can you ask me a question that could only be answered if the initial event happened ?


  • Options
    #9
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Grolschevik wrote: »
    say I got a kick in the bollocks when I was 12, but resultant sterility not diagnosed til I'm 40.


    Now, we've all had situations where kicks in the bollocks happen and more than once. But, we don't diagnose ourselves, we aren't blessed with the knowledge it takes trained professions years to obtain, we wouldn't know one symptom of one ailment from the same symptom of another.


    Do your nuts hurt from a kick or are your jocks too tight ?


    Are you shaking severely from being cold , or afraid , or are you a heroin addict , maybe alcoholic , or plain and simply did that fcuking lamp-post do it ?................////0//M99d=-


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    #10
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    For limitation period purposes, a person's knowledge that he has a cause of action includes "knowledge which he might reasonably have been expected to acquire . . . from facts ascertainable by him with the help of medical or other appropriate expert advice which it is reasonable for him to seek".

    So, if it would have been reasonable for him to seek medical advice on the consequences of the kick before reaching age 40, and that medical advice might reasanably be expected to disclose his sterility, he's cactus. And I guess whether it would have been reasonable to seek that advice will be one of the preliminary issues in the trial.


    If the trained medical professionals had never specifically had the view , or were unwilling for whatever reason to admit , that the event had caused the effect , why would it be " reasonable " for the person to reach his own ignorant untrained totally correct conclusion ?

    I would think it unreasonable , in my simple view .


  • Options
    #11
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    How can you ask me a question that could only be answered if the initial event happened ?

    I'm not sure I understand your point here. The poster you replied to has a pretty pertinent question; even if the story is true, how would you prove it after ~35 years? What contemporary evidence has he to prove that the ESB/council's negligence are the cause of his issues?

    I can't see the court just taking his word for it or the state would soon be bankrupted by decades old claims of people saying they got electrocuted, or fell down a manhole, or tripped on a pothole etc.


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    #12
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand your point here.


    You obviously don't. The point I was trying to make was that I was trying to get this person to think of a question to which I could supply an answer and that answer could only be given if the event had happened.

    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    What contemporary evidence has he to prove that the ESB/council's negligence are the cause of his issues?



    An example may be the following, Vandalism to the locking mechanism on the lamp-post had resulted at the time in the ESB or Local Authority repairing it by placing stainless steel bands around the cover/door. When these bands were vandalised by children again then the cover was easily removed by children.


    These bands were inadequate for purpose.

    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    I can't see the court just taking his word for it or the state would soon be bankrupted by decades old claims of people saying they got electrocuted, or fell down a manhole, or tripped on a pothole etc.


    In modern terminology the person who is in contact with an electrical conductor is said to receive an electric shock. If it kills the person it is said to be electrocution.


    In other words , because the person is alive, there is every chance the court will take his word that he received an electric shock while there would be no chance if he had have been electrocuted.


    Falling down a manhole and tripping on a pothole are nothing compared to being in contact with an AC Voltage lamp - post. Had the current passed through the mans heart he would not give an fcuk about compensation.


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    #13
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,935 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Ah lads, 32 years ago. Seriously!


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    #14
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    A man I know knows a man who is now 40 something. When he was approximately 8 years old he received an electric shock from a street lamp post which had been vandalised. He , of course hadn't a clue what electricity could do but knows better now.


    He has permanent injuries which include difficulty controlling the arm through which he received the shock. He has difficulty therefore lifting things such as a glass with liquid in it which may end up all over the place.


    He also recently went to eat something using a fork and when putting the fork towards his mouth he just missed poking himself in the eye by a short distance.



    Writing can be a severe problem after a short time.


    Can he pursue compensation ?

    It would raise a few questions for the client to answer and very difficult questions he would be unable to answer in my opinion.

    Can he prove he was given an electric shock by a lamppost ?
    Can he prove he was a student who was on a par or above academic peers prior to the event ?
    Can he prove a subsequent loss in ability ?
    Can he link any loss in ability to the initial event ?
    Can he prove he has not had any life event/illness/injury in the past 30+ years which may be the cause of or contributed to his motor skills ? Ie. Anything in his medical history for the past 30+years reported or not reported could have caused his difficulty in writing.

    If he has ever been in hospital due to an injury from falling/car crash or sickness ? He could be challenged on any action taken against the ESB.

    Who could he sue? The esb for being negligent 30+ years ago ? The hospital who treated him for not recognising he may have benefited from further treatment 30+ years ago, I would guess that at the time he was treated with current methods and practices, while they may be different now, I don’t think he could retrospectively claim they were negligent given that the modern approach may not have been available to the medics as an option.

    OP it would be very difficult for the guy to prove negligence over 30years ago, but as others have said, check with an established and well practiced legal professional.

    Edit: if he has suffered throughout his life, why wait until he is in his 40s to attempt to take an action, is he ready to answer under oath if someone else suggested to him that he should be compensated (ie. He is either influenced by someone else or under pressure by someone else to lodge a claim) why didn’t he lodge a claim when he was of age or why didn’t his parents lodge a claim on his behalf ....do we know if his parents were compensated 30+ years ago and never informed him ? Or was he given money on his 18th and he spent/wasted it? Is he willing to put his parents on the stand as witnesses to give evidence (quite a stressful thing for anyone, assuming they are still alive, they should only be in their 60/70s)

    To be honest it could appear as though he is only pursuing a legal action because of some “pub talk” saying he is “entitled” to compo....or someone else is putting him up to it so he may pay a debt owed to them or the other person will get a share of any compo.


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    #15
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    He's too late to claim
    Are you sure its not a medical problem like parkenson or motor neuron .

    https://www.anthonyjoyce.ie/personal-injury-claims-faqs/#:~:text=Under%20the%20Civil%20Liability%20and,on%20Irish%20personal%20injury*%20claims.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It’s also interesting that you say, “recently he had difficulty eating”- like it’s an issue that wasn’t there before- you’d imagine he either had this issue since the accident and mastered eating or it’s unrelated to that incident.
    I’m surprised his parents or guardians didn’t take Legal action on his behalf - he could also have pursued this himself, up to the age of 21 is what’s in my mind, but that could have changed since


  • Options
    #17
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Eggs For Dinner wrote: »
    Ah lads, 32 years ago. Seriously!


    yes !


  • Options
    #18
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    It would raise a few questions for the client to answer and very difficult questions he would be unable to answer in my opinion.


    The more difficult the better. The truth will always have an answer.

    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Can he prove he was given an electric shock by a lamppost ?
    Can he prove he was a student who was on a par or above academic peers prior to the event ?
    Can he prove a subsequent loss in ability ?
    Can he link any loss in ability to the initial event ?
    Can he prove he has not had any life event/illness/injury in the past 30+ years which may be the cause of or contributed to his motor skills ? Ie. Anything in his medical history for the past 30+years reported or not reported could have caused his difficulty in writing.


    Can he prove he was given an electric shock , well , great detail can be given about the experience. He doesn't have to imagine what happened , he can recollect from experience.


    I'm supposing that proving he was on a par or above with peers is a way in which an amount of damages can be assessed. If he was just the fruit cake sitting in the corner , sure who cares ?


    Everybody has abilities. Which one is in question ? The damaged ability to lift a simple glass of water in his right hand and drink it is quite different from the more balanced ability to try the same in his left. He is right handed and has spent quite a few years using the left to increase non-natural use.



    My maths teacher use say that enough proof can be made with a singular event. He does not have to make many proofs even though he could. He had a large lump on his right wrist which appeared after he received his electric shock. He had this removed as severe wrist pain was causing many problems during writing in his college lectures not to mention he had this unsightly occurence in common with some who were known to have injected drugs.



    Writing is only one problem. There are many effects.


  • Options
    #19
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    If he has ever been in hospital due to an injury from falling/car crash or sickness ? He could be challenged on any action taken against the ESB


    He did of course have other occurences along the way. Falling on his arse when hit by a car when cycling his bicycle has given him over 20 years of arthritis but he wouldn't be looking to the ESB (if applicable) for compensation relevant to his derriere. So, they would be welcome to have any details of anything they wished.

    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Who could he sue? The esb for being negligent 30+ years ago ? The hospital who treated him for not recognising he may have benefited from further treatment 30+ years ago, I would guess that at the time he was treated with current methods and practices, while they may be different now, I don’t think he could retrospectively claim they were negligent given that the modern approach may not have been available to the medics as an option.


    Esb (if applicable), yes !



    Children hide secrets for many reasons. Did you ever let your budgie fly out the window to see what it was like ?Hospital attention was never received. As far as the child was concerned nobody beyond other children who saw the event happening was told.

    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Edit: if he has suffered throughout his life, why wait until he is in his 40s to attempt to take an action, is he ready to answer under oath if someone else suggested to him that he should be compensated (ie. He is either influenced by someone else or under pressure by someone else to lodge a claim) why didn’t he lodge a claim when he was of age or why didn’t his parents lodge a claim on his behalf ....do we know if his parents were compensated 30+ years ago and never informed him ? Or was he given money on his 18th and he spent/wasted it? Is he willing to put his parents on the stand as witnesses to give evidence (quite a stressful thing for anyone, assuming they are still alive, they should only be in their 60/70s)




    The man is prepared to do whatever is fair for his situation.

    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    To be honest it could appear as though he is only pursuing a legal action because of some “pub talk” saying he is “entitled” to compo....or someone else is putting him up to it so he may pay a debt owed to them or the other person will get a share of any compo.


    It could also appear he wasn't. He does not drink and has not heard pub talk in nearly 20 years , though why you could not have said , socially distant golf club bar chat , I don't know.


    The straw that breaks the camels back is the final straw. Before the straw is put upon the camel the camel is fine , though increasingly loaded. After , the camel is different. The fork near the eye is the final straw.


  • Options
    #20
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    bobbyy gee wrote: »
    He's too late to claim
    Are you sure its not a medical problem like parkenson or motor neuron .

    https://www.anthonyjoyce.ie/personal-injury-claims-faqs/#:~:text=Under%20the%20Civil%20Liability%20and,on%20Irish%20personal%20injury*%20claims.


    Parkinsons has been discounted.


  • Options
    #21
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    Parkinsons has been discounted.

    If Parkinsons has been discounted then it was "in the frame" at some point in time, so I suspect there is no definitive proof that his ailments arise from when he was electrocuted.

    Is he going on the premise of " I don't know what caused this so it must have been when I was electrocuted"?.

    Hopefully he improves.


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    #22
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It’s also interesting that you say, “recently he had difficulty eating”- like it’s an issue that wasn’t there before


    Recently he put the toaster on to make some toast, it's not presumed he never made toast before.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    - you’d imagine he either had this issue since the accident and mastered eating or it’s unrelated to that incident.


    He has had the control of his right arm as an issue since the incident and has never been able to properly eat with it. In college he avoided at all costs being in a place where many may see the effects of spilling liquids or carrying a plate as he was afraid of ridicule such as being compared to an alcoholic with the shakes or a drug addict with the dt's.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    I’m surprised his parents or guardians didn’t take Legal action on his behalf - he could also have pursued this himself, up to the age of 21 is what’s in my mind, but that could have changed since


    He did not tell them, so they did not know.


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    #23
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    If Parkinsons has been discounted then it was "in the frame" at some point in time, so I suspect there is no definitive proof that his ailments arise from when he was electrocuted.


    It was considered as his symptoms of damage have things in common with Parkinsons. In his mind definitive proof is when he went to a lamp-post and got a shock , he is unable to control his arm properly in a lot of situations which began then . Interestingly alcoholics offered him whiskey when they saw he was shaking so severely as the solution to their diagnosis of him being cold and it could warm him up.



    He does not have 40 years previous to the incident to compare the last nearly 40 years to.


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Is he going on the premise of " I don't know what caused this so it must have been when I was electrocuted"?


    He was there, he traces problems he has back to an origin and they meet at this event.


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Hopefully he improves.



    Unfortunately , he knows that the older he gets the worse it becomes. He would thank you for your wishes.


  • Options
    #24
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    He did of course have other occurences along the way. Falling on his arse when hit by a car when cycling his bicycle has given him over 20 years of arthritis but he wouldn't be looking to the ESB (if applicable) for compensation relevant to his derriere. So, they would be welcome to have any details of anything they wished.
    If he has had accidents since the first event, how can he prove the first event caused the issues he is experiencing.
    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    Children hide secrets for many reasons. Did you ever let your budgie fly out the window to see what it was like ?Hospital attention was never received. As far as the child was concerned nobody beyond other children who saw the event happening was told.

    Children hide secrets, so how do we know that this person - as a child - didn’t cause the ESB pole to be tampered with ? And how do we know that they were electrocuted.... there is no proof....without proof, they could have made the story up.
    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    Can he prove he was given an electric shock , well , great detail can be given about the experience. He doesn't have to imagine what happened , he can recollect from experience

    To put it as simple as possible, if you are going to sue anyone, you want to prove your version of events, if you cannot prove anything, you cannot attempt to sue a person or a business. Anyone can give great detail of an event, it doesn’t mean the event happened.

    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    It could also appear he wasn't. He does not drink and has not heard pub talk in nearly 20 years , though why you could not have said , socially distant golf club bar chat , I don't know.

    Pub talk is an expression for someone giving advice which may not be correct, and in most cases is the wrong advice.

    Electronic Writer wrote: »
    The straw that breaks the camels back is the final straw. Before the straw is put upon the camel the camel is fine , though increasingly loaded. After , the camel is different. The fork near the eye is the final straw.
    ???


  • Options
    #25
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It’s been too long.


  • Options
    #26
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    This question sounds like somebody's homework. It has the flavour of an exam question or at least a sample exam question. If the OP is relying on the answers here, he will fail his exam.
    In an exam, difficulties of proof are not relevant and should not be mentioned unless the exam is an evidence exam or there is reason to comment on some presumption in law relevant to the particular issue. In a case where negligence arises it may be necessary to comment on the principle of res ipsa loquitur.
    Only some of the issues which exam student would be expected to comment on have been raised so far. The Statute of Limitations, the extension of time for minors, the date of knowledge of injury and there is a vague reference to other issues.
    I am not going to do anybody's homework.


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    #27
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    This question sounds like somebody's homework. It has the flavour of an exam question or at least a sample exam question. If the OP is relying on the answers here, he will fail his exam.
    In an exam, difficulties of proof are not relevant and should not be mentioned unless the exam is an evidence exam or there is reason to comment on some presumption in law relevant to the particular issue. In a case where negligence arises it may be necessary to comment on the principle of res ipsa loquitur.
    Only some of the issues which exam student would be expected to comment on have been raised so far. The Statute of Limitations, the extension of time for minors, the date of knowledge of injury and there is a vague reference to other issues.
    I am not going to do anybody's homework.


    It's not an exam question.



    A child received an electric shock from a lamp-post when he was approximately 8 years old. The lamp-post was situated at the roadside outside his parents house. He had been told on multiple occasions to stay away from the lamp-post by his parents who watched as children and youths vandalised it on multiple occasions. The relevant authority had implemented makeshift repairs by placing stainless steel straps around the top and the bottom of the cover.


    These had been vandalised easily. When the child was playing near the lamp-post another child had approached him explaining he had a difficulty trying to twist off a fuse holder. The child, held the fuse holder in his right hand and immediately received an electric shock. He was unable to release the fuse holder easily as his hand was stuck to it.


    He could not hear much which is comparable to being under water in a swimming pool. He managed to force his hand open and released the fuse holder. Suddenly his hearing returned like a crowd had suddenly started shouting.


    2 mins later he was lying on a bed and " fell asleep ". When he awoke he stood up and has been shaking ever since.


  • Options
    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    And no adult was aware of this happening or noticed any change in the child afterwards, scarring,shaking etc?


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    #29
    Electronic Writer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Electronic Writer


    _Brian wrote: »
    It’s been too long.


    Presumably then , in 20 years time , it will therefore be too long + 20 years.


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    #30
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And no adult was aware of this happening or noticed any change in the child afterwards, scarring,shaking etc?

    This!


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    #31
    Kitchen Favourites
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭Kitchen Favourites


    How well do you know this person? You started the thread by saying "A man I know knows a man" but you seem to have a lot of detail about him. Very odd. Do you have a college assignment coming up or something?


This discussion has been closed.
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