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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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Comments

  • #1682
    excollier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭excollier


    If they are like Humax HDR Freesat, diseqc capable, but a pain to use that way, then maybe they should leave diseqc out of it.


  • #1683
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Absolutely not. For Ireland + Irish Satellite service Diseqc should be a minimum requirement.

    You want to have to have two satellite boxes in every room? :(


  • #1684
    Gipo3
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Gipo3


    What about two tuners?
    Also, the saorview/sat box would be welcome.


  • #1685
    Lpfsox
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭Lpfsox


    will a TV with Saorsat built in also be capable of displaying UK FTA channels on one EPG (with the appropriate LNB setup of course)? This would be the perfect solution to wall mounting TVs in the bedrooms without having to worry about a STB.

    I've got a FTA/DTT combi receiver in the main sitting room which is grand but want a simpler setup for the bedrooms.


  • #1686
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,822 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Nice ideas but I'd have to say that given the small size of the Irish market, the large proportion of viewers already on pay-TV, the small number of people who can't easily get Saorview, the likelihood of it happening is small :( Saorsat is intended for a small niche of viewers (and to provide a useful backup to RTENL's transmission links.)

    Life ain't always empty.



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  • #1687
    sesswhat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    watty wrote: »

    Direct Links to two HD ready Walker (Vestel?) TVs that allege Satellite + Irish TV
    * HD READY
    * 2 x HDMI
    * INTEGRATED SATELLITE RECEIVER
    FOR IRISH TV
    * SCART CONNECTION
    * PIANO BLACK FINISH
    * VESA WALL MOUNTABLE
    * 1000 PAGE TEXT
    * PC VGA INPUT
    * HEADPHONE SOCKET
    http://www.walker.ie/products/WP32SATHD.html
    http://www.walker.ie/products/WP42SATHD.html

    They appear to be inferior 1366x768 WXGA panels, as they are "HD Ready" and have PC VGA as well as SCART and HDMI.

    When Saorsat capable TVs were mentioned I was reminded of the Walker Models referred to by Watty last year. They were first with approved Saorview equipment and could be a likely candidate to be involved with Saorsat.

    I don't know if anyone has any experience of the sets above.


  • #1688
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Here is user manual for that Walker TV with inbuilt Sat tuner:
    http://www.walker.ie/download/Walker%20WP32SAT-and-WP42SAT.pdf
    On page 8:

    ANALOG TUNER: To connect terrestrial antenna.

    LNB: To connect satellite antenna.

    Page 9:
    Inserting a Smart card
    A Smart card looks similar to a credit card and entitles you to view
    and listen to all the channels you choose to subscribe to. The
    Smart card slot on the TV can be used for Smart cards only.

    Also:
    Inserting the CI (Common Interface) Module
    Your TV is equipped with a slot for the Common Interface (CI).
    CI and CAS embedded model only.

    DiSEqC 1.0/DiSEqC 1.2 Motor

    The date on the PDF is from 2008?

    IT APPEARS THIS HAS ANALOGUE TERRESTRIAL ONLY - No DVB-T tuner -Am I right? For Sat use only? PAL tuner? -Won't pick up saorview?

    Is this aimed at Saorsat & Freesat rather than Saorview?
    The PDF may just be out of date/incorrect.

    By the way the Saorsat test signal is off air at present, and has been for a few weeks. Can someone please post when it is back on air, Thanks.


  • #1689
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    zg3409 wrote: »
    Here is user manual for that Walker TV with inbuilt Sat tuner:
    http://www.walker.ie/download/Walker%20WP32SAT-and-WP42SAT.pdf
    On page 8:

    ANALOG TUNER: To connect terrestrial antenna.

    LNB: To connect satellite antenna.

    Page 9:
    Inserting a Smart card
    A Smart card looks similar to a credit card and entitles you to view
    and listen to all the channels you choose to subscribe to. The
    Smart card slot on the TV can be used for Smart cards only.

    Also:
    Inserting the CI (Common Interface) Module
    Your TV is equipped with a slot for the Common Interface (CI).
    CI and CAS embedded model only.

    DiSEqC 1.0/DiSEqC 1.2 Motor

    The date on the PDF is from 2008?

    IT APPEARS THIS HAS ANALOGUE TERRESTRIAL ONLY - No DVB-T tuner -Am I right? For Sat use only? PAL tuner? -Won't pick up saorview?

    Is this aimed at Saorsat & Freesat rather than Saorview?
    The PDF may just be out of date/incorrect.

    By the way the Saorsat test signal is off air at present, and has been for a few weeks. Can someone please post when it is back on air, Thanks.

    Why an analogue tuner with saorview coming online - thats kinda shooting yourself in the foot if ye want to buy a tv for saorview and also a sat card for 28.2e -

    Aye analogue wont pick up saorview - as for the sat card it mightnt pick up saorsat either unless the card is equipped to pick up the fequeceny band that this new hotspot sat works on (different range to astra 19.2e or 28.2e or any wideband sat for that matter) - some DVB-S2 cards are capable of C, Ku and Ka but i dont know about this one

    Note page 14 of pdf: C/KU Switch You can select C/KU band by selection of switch type.

    Note page 15: Polarity Use the or button to select the Polarisation of the transponder. (Horizontal, Vertical)

    There is a few diagrams on pages 14 and 15 which seem to indicate what the card does but there is no actual mention of Ka band as far as i can see.
    Doesnt look like it supports Ka Band if it only supports H/V polarization but still i cant be certain :( What do ye think folks?


  • #1690
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,476 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    zg3409 wrote: »
    The date on the PDF is from 2008?

    IT APPEARS THIS HAS ANALOGUE TERRESTRIAL ONLY - No DVB-T tuner -Am I right? For Sat use only? PAL tuner? -Won't pick up saorview?

    Is this aimed at Saorsat & Freesat rather than Saorview?
    The PDF may just be out of date/incorrect.

    Analogue terrestrial tuner only appears to be correct, no mention in the specs of a DVB-T tuner only a DVB-S/S2 satellite tuner so no Saorview.

    The PDF is over 3 years old so that model TV probably hit the market about the time RTÉNL started the engineering test transmissions during the infrastructure build and before Saorsat was a twinkle in anyones eye.

    A TV for a different time. Freesat was launched that year so that TV may have been aimed at the FTA satellite market combined with the then analogue TV channels. I don't recall it being advertised or discussed here at the time. I would have considered purchasing one for bedroom use etc.

    The satellite menu looks similar/same as a Manhattan Plaza FTA satellite receiver I've had for many years.

    I assume any new terrestrial/satellite TV from Walker will include a Saorview and satellite tuner.
    warlikedave wrote: »
    There is a few diagrams on pages 14 and 15 which seem to indicate what the card does but there is no actual mention of Ka band as far as i can see.
    Doesnt look like it supports Ka Band if it only supports H/V polarization but still i cant be certain :( What do ye think folks?

    Any DVB-S2 receiver should receive the Saorsat channels with a little bit of maths and Ka Band LNB - see Apogee's post here.


  • #1691
    satwyn
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭satwyn


    zg3409 wrote: »
    Here is user manual for that Walker TV with inbuilt Sat tuner:
    http://www.walker.ie/download/Walker%20WP32SAT-and-WP42SAT.pdf
    On page 8:

    ANALOG TUNER: To connect terrestrial antenna.

    LNB: To connect satellite antenna.

    Page 9:
    Inserting a Smart card
    A Smart card looks similar to a credit card and entitles you to view
    and listen to all the channels you choose to subscribe to. The
    Smart card slot on the TV can be used for Smart cards only.

    Also:
    Inserting the CI (Common Interface) Module
    Your TV is equipped with a slot for the Common Interface (CI).
    CI and CAS embedded model only.

    DiSEqC 1.0/DiSEqC 1.2 Motor

    The date on the PDF is from 2008?

    IT APPEARS THIS HAS ANALOGUE TERRESTRIAL ONLY - No DVB-T tuner -Am I right? For Sat use only? PAL tuner? -Won't pick up saorview?

    Is this aimed at Saorsat & Freesat rather than Saorview?
    The PDF may just be out of date/incorrect.

    By the way the Saorsat test signal is off air at present, and has been for a few weeks. Can someone please post when it is back on air, Thanks.
    had a look today and the testcards ect are still showing


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  • #1692
    jeffwode
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭jeffwode


    I got the following reply to Pat Rabitte's office on 11-110 2011. I have a couple of questions, if someone could help me.

    Will I be able to receive this service on my Humax Foxsat PVR? Will I need an additional LNB?

    Has anyone been able to watch any test programming yet? How would I go about tuning it in to my Humax, if the testing is in progress?

    Thanks in advance. Text of response from Pat Rabbitte follows.


    I refer to your recent correspondence regarding transmitting RTÉ as a free satellite service.
    RTÉ expects to rollout a new free satellite TV service in the near future. The aim of this service is to augment its Saorview coverage, which provides 98% population coverage.
    The satellite they are using is a new satellite which has a footprint coverage area that covers Ireland only. RTÉ is currently testing the new service and expects to be able to make more information publicly available about this in the coming months.
    RTÉ is rolling out this new service as a commercial decision. It is not a requirement under the legislation.
    I trust this is of assistance.


    Yours sincerely,


    Pat Rabbitte T.D.
    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources


  • #1693
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You need a Ka Band LNBF pointed at 9E. Domestic models will be available "shortly".

    A Humax DVB-S2 box will work via other channels, though you need to calculate a fake Ku frequency as although a Ka Band LNBF converts the 20GHz signal to one the Humax can tune you can't enter Ka band frequencies.

    At present there are no programs.

    You'll get more information here, on RTE (www.saorview.ie), www.techtir.ie, www.saortv.info and wikipedia than from any Government office.


  • #1694
    jeffwode
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭jeffwode


    Thanks Watty

    Does that mean I'll need a new sattelite dish? At present I have the standard Sky installation pointing at 28.8E (or whatever). Will I need another dish and LNB to point to 9E?

    I'm not sure what you mean about faking the ka frequencies, but when the time comes, with the help of the good people here, I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out. Thanks again.


  • #1695
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Probably a different dish instead and mount a Ku LNB for FTA UK TV and Ka LNBF for Saorsat, and a multiswitch or Diseqc switch to select the signal.

    The explanation of the frequency to enter is earlier in the thread, but there will be specific info when the new LNBF for Ka comes out as it depends on the value of the internal "L.O."


  • #1696
    Peddyr
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Peddyr


    Found this on Ebay UK - it's very cheap so probably rubbish... Is it any good for Saorsat?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Openbox-s10-HD-PVR-Satellite-Receiver-free-HDMI-lead-/180742401007?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item2a15162bef#ht_1531wt_936


  • #1697
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Not Freesat compatible.

    I'm not interested in discussing what people buy those for. Those that know what the advertiser is referring to should read the Forum Rules and Irish & EU law and refrain from making suggestions. The box as shipped and used for Free to Air is perfectly legal.

    Since there are really only 5.5 Irish channels roughly and hundreds of UK channels I'd use a Freesat HD box that supports Diseqc on the "other channels". For most people will want all the free UK channels too. A "Generic" HD box without MHEG5 makes no sense for UK TV + Irish TV. It only makes sense for Mainland Europe packages.

    It's intriguing it has MHEG5. But I'd wonder how bug free the MHEG5 stack is given why people buy the "Open box" (or indeed how reliable and easy it is for ordinary users).


    From a "hobby" point of view it seems like a good value box. But "ordinary" viewers who just want to watch UK & Irish Free TV channels should likely wait till the service is launched. UK & Ireland are supposed be co-ordinating on standards so I do expect eventually (if only for the Politics of N.I. Market) to see "Freeview HD" that integrate Saorview on EPG and "Freesat HD" boxes that integrate Saorsat on same EPG. The UK & Irish governments appear committed to this to satisfy N.I. Aspirations.


  • #1698
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    watty wrote: »
    But "ordinary" viewers who just want to watch UK & Irish Free TV channels should likely wait till the service is launched. UK & Ireland are supposed be co-ordinating on standards so I do expect eventually (if only for the Politics of N.I. Market) to see "Freeview HD" that integrate Saorview on EPG and "Freesat HD" boxes that integrate Saorsat on same EPG. The UK & Irish governments appear committed to this to satisfy N.I. Aspirations.

    I have the Sony Freeview HDT 500 box and it integrates both Freeview and Saorview on one EPG. See my summary of plus and minus points -
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056437493
    (Posts 8 and 9).


  • #1699
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Yes, but it won't work for Satellite :-)

    But proves that it's possible. It's very little extra SW for Freesat HD or Freeview HD as both do MHEG5 and MPEG4 as needed for Irish TV.


  • #1700
    MACHEAD
    Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭MACHEAD


    Photographed earlier this month in the land of the 'Thee Goss Lighters'

    Have'nt heard any reception reports back yet thoigh....


  • #1701
    hazzard1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭hazzard1


    should be able to get Mars T V on that thing


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  • #1702
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    hazzard1 wrote: »
    should be able to get Mars T V on that thing

    But I'll bet it still can't get Saorsat :D


  • #1703
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,822 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Never mind yer Lady Gaga, I think a squarial for Saorsat would be really cool :)

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #1704
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    watty wrote: »
    Yes, but it won't work for Satellite :-)

    But proves that it's possible. It's very little extra SW for Freesat HD or Freeview HD as both do MHEG5 and MPEG4 as needed for Irish TV.

    But why not dedicated Saorsat receivers? Why does Saorsat need to parasite Freesat?


  • #1705
    Propellerhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Never mind yer Lady Gaga, I think a squarial for Saorsat would be really cool :)

    A squarial would be appropriate for Saorsat. Perhaps RTE should transmit it in D2-MAC and offer integrated Saorsat and Betamax receivers to really push that doomed technology feel about it :D


  • #1706
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    rlogue wrote: »
    But why not dedicated Saorsat receivers? Why does Saorsat need to parasite Freesat?

    That's totally dis-ingenious and you know it. Saorsat doesn't parasite Freesat. Irish People use Freesat, which as a FTA "spillover" is perfectly permitted.

    About 95% of people in Ireland watch UK TV. Maybe more than 1/2 using Satellite. The number using Freesat or Generic FTA or expired Sky subs isn't known. That's about 40+ decent channels out of hundreds.

    Saorsat is for the 2% to 5% that can't get Terrestrial TV. About 4 decent channels out of about 7.

    ANY Freesat HD receiver that has Diseqc and other channels can receive Saorsat also.

    Saorsat is also for back up feeds to Transmitters. Are you just miffed it's not for Londoners?

    Unlike a certain UK startup, Saorsat is not claiming ANY Freesat or other UK FTA channels as part of its package. Its publicity makes it clear it is only for Irish TV and Freesat is a separate platform. Irish People watching a UK service is not the same as packaging Content and marketing it as if it's your own when its quite independent.


  • #1707
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    Saorsat is nothing to do with any service for the Irish abroad. Watty, you know well I know that. There is legislation that provides for RTE and TG4 to provide a satellite service to Irish communities abroad that RTE continue to ignore, pleading poverty. Yet RTE found the money to spend on Saorsat which RTE themselves have described as a commercial venture. There is no legislative requirement for RTE to provide Saorsat. The legal requirement for coverage in Ireland lies with the Digital Terrestrial service.

    You obliquely mention Real Digital. I do not know your real reasons for conducting such a campaign against them on Digital Spy and here against them but that is your business. What I don't appreciate is you then attempting to smear me personally each time I make a post here about anything else.

    I see Real Digital and the provision of a proper legal Irish overseas TV channel as entirely different things.

    Competition for Sky is good. A commitment from RTE to the Irish abroad would be good. I am a critic of Saorsat because I believe RTE should have spent the money on providing a properly rights-cleared satellite service worldwide.


  • #1708
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    So you are miffed.

    Saorsat is "value for money" if NO-ONE watched it. It's a good solution to backup transmitter feeds. BBC & Five use more expensive capacity they have to encrypt on non-28E satellite (Possibly Intelsat 907). Soarsat wouldn't pay 1% of a worldwide service and the costs would exist ANYWAY as site backup feeds.

    You have no logic at all in your Saorsat criticism. It purely bitterness that RTE are not providing an International service. If/when they do (and the Government should fund it) you'll find BBC NI is better. But that's a different argument.

    If Real Digital actually manages to offer Sky Sports it will set back any viable competition to Sky on Satellite for a generation. Competition to work against such an established incumbent needs very deep pockets and a better "package" than Sky.

    RTE NL and RTE have had to borrow over 70m to roll out DTT. Not a cent from Government. It's not reasonable to pass legislation and have no funding Mechanisim. Nor are Irish in UK special and deserving to be funded with a TV service from RTE or Licence fee payers or Government and Irish in Australia, rest of Europe, North America, Africa and South America not.

    I will support any International service for Worldwide use and will vehemently oppose any free service purely for Irish in UK funded in Ireland as they are practically the best served in the World for Media & TV. Irish people elsewhere need it more.

    RTE1 LW appears to be RTE's philosophy for a UK service at the minute.


  • #1709
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    I am starting to realise that you actually don't read what I post and keep thinking I had said what you think I am saying.

    Did you not read where I said I wanted a Worldwide TV service? I certainly don't think that the Irish in the UK are a special case but at the same time the Irish in Britain are still the largest expat Irish community.


  • #1710
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I know you said a "worldwide TV" service. It's not going to happen, ever, on a worldwide basis. The "so called International" channel would have been a UK/28.2E affair if it had happened. A waste of money that isn't there anyway. Radio is feasible, but they are not even doing that properly. Tara TV shut down was sad but the fact is it couldn't make money and was pretty rubbish.

    In terms of "recent" people and people that need Irish contact the UK so called "expat" is a small proportion and well served.

    Irish people in UK are not really "expats" at all. I've lived in UK (twice with 10 year gap), USA, Middle East (over a year) and I know the difference.

    There is some virtue in "cheering" for Real Digital, though it won't save them. But "knocking" Saorsat and coupling the modest expenditure of it to paying for an "International" channel instead is inexplicable. It simply smells of sour grapes. An International channel would not provided fill in for DTT (which is ultimately why Freesat exists) nor provide backup feeds for the DTT sites.


    P.S.
    I was sceptical that Ireland EVER attempted its own SW service. Then I was told there was transmissions maybe 1948 or 1949. Just the other week I got an 11 Band 1949 Radio. As well as the usual "Athlone" at about 570KHz it has a 2nd Athlone on 31m band at about 9.64MHz. Apart from piggy back on WRN and rental of SW time a few times a year on SW for a sports event, LW RTE1 and FTA Radio on 28.2E we actually have gone backwards then since 1949.


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  • #1711
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    First off, I've seen pictures of your work on the 1949 PYE radio - it's impressive and a superb piece of restoration. If AM radios were still being built to that degree of engineering today would we still want FM, let alone tinny old DAB.

    I have a 1951 Murphy B197 wihch was my grandfathers - it sounds impressive when tuned to a strong MW station.

    Tara wasn't brilliant but it was better than nothing, which is what we officially have via satellite from Ireland, outside of Ireland. Perhaps the grey market is the way to go for Irish TV then?

    Online TV quality from RTE is a poor selection and hard to watch on a full size TV screen. RTE's own policy on what is or isn't shown internationally is really hard to fathom. For instance the Presidential Inaugration stream was Ireland only, but the same content was streamed worldwide on a link from the RTE News site and inside a window in RTE News Now. RTE won't stream the drama series Love/Hate worldwide. Is that because they might sell it to STV? There's no real consistency as to what is or isn't available online for us folks outside Ireland.

    Maybe an embryonic international channel could be streamed online with RTE News Now acting as a sustaining service? Although with Noel Curran eyeing up the international market as a source of online revenue maybe we will have to pay as we go for that. Who knows?

    If as you state Irish people in the UK aren't expats - can I have my vote back? I would happily pay the full Irish TV licence also for full access to the indigenous Irish channels as well. Since I am living outside the state and have no longer have the right to vote in Ireland I do consider myself an expatriate and not a jot of your own logic or reasoning will make me change my mind on that.

    You say that Saorsat is modest expenditure for RTE. How much will it cost? How much would it cost to broadcast a FTA channel on Eurobird without any EPG charges to pay?

    They key sticking point for RTE over the international channel was the cost of transmission. Also RTE were proposing to broadcast the channel without sponsorship or advertising. That's madness.


This discussion has been closed.
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